Who Kills more? Taliban or NATO/ISAF

[MostafaM]

The Usage of Suicide Bombers is an indication that they have poor weapons and planning and are also just misguided by Wahhabist doctrines about Martyrdom; not that they get tipped off. Because if what you're saying was true; Then Insurgents would not be able to infiltrate Military and Police forces; This is only possible if there is a large degree (not necessarily majority, but even 30%) of local support.'

Infiltrating an army is a valuable argument; it means they have people helping them from within. In fact that argument pretty much makes your entire argument invalid. If the locals were not supporting them; this would NOT be possible.

In general? How do you define general; I would say they have a significant enough support of local population that they have continued to fight for the last 10 years. If that were not true they would have died out by now. Even with foreign funding. I would say anywhere between 30%-40% of the local population support or are at least sympathetic to them. That's pretty significant local support.

These are your words.

And for your informtation, military service is compulsory for every male after highschool in Germany. I don´t need to fake something that I really didn´t enjoy.
But I know why you resort to this kind of language: your deep complexes that I will not mention here again.

Stick to the topic.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Fake Noorzai; there's no denying that the Taliban's murders have increased higher than NATO because of suicide bombings; This is something determined by the logic of the intrinsic indiscriminate nature of a suicide attack in populated area.

WIkileaks correctly exposed that NATO hid casualties of civilians from public media and from the U.N. this has been corroborated by released cables from NATO themselves.

That being said the Taliban being bad, doesn't Make NATO good; you're both murderous and criminal organisations who deserve nothing less but extermination.

[ScimitarXEdge]

These are your words.

And for your informtation, military service is compulsory for every male after highschool in Germany. I don´t need to fake something that I really didn´t enjoy.
But I know why you resort to this kind of language: your deep complexes that I will not mention here again.

Stick to the topic.

Military service in Germany is like going to the Boyscouts in the United States.

Yes I wrote that and that still confirms what I just wrote; that a large enough minority are helping the Taliban, despite the majority opposing them

which is precisely what I said in my previous response to you exposing you as an intellectually dishonest liar. My argument remains. There is a Minority of Afghans helping the Taliban and that is large enough to keep them able to do this. Albeit it's not the majority

You're only proving that what I have said before is what I have still said

You get insulted because you act idiotic; that doesn't mean there isn't an argument of merit between the insults. Don't tell me to stick to the topic when the quotes you cited of mine themselves how you're a liar.

Next time be intellectually honest instead of trying to distort and derailed the context of a person's statements.

The fact you whine about it proves how intellectually incapable you are to make a cogent response.

[MostafaM]

Military service in Germany is like going to the Boyscouts in the United States.

Yes I wrote that and that still confirms what I just wrote; that a large enough minority are helping the Taliban, despite the majority opposing them

which is precisely what I said in my previous response to you exposing you as an intellectually dishonest liar. My argument remains. There is a Minority of Afghans helping the Taliban and that is large enough to keep them able to do this. Albeit it's not the majority

You're only proving that what I have said before is what I have still said

You get insulted because you act idiotic; that doesn't mean there isn't an argument of merit between the insults. Don't tell me to stick to the topic when the quotes you cited of mine themselves how you're a liar.

Next time be intellectually honest instead of trying to distort and derailed the context of a person's statements.

The fact you whine about it proves how intellectually incapable you are to make a cogent response.

Is that the reason why US soldiers run for the lifes after getting into trouble they can´t handle? I see.

There are absolutly no numbers of how small or large the support is.

But what I had told in the other debate, their military tactics and the shifting of their wider military strategy clearly indicates how signifant their support in the population is. It´s not existent otherwise their guerilla style attacks against real targets would have been more frequent and normal.

Let the readers decide who the fraud is.
If you admit to "atleast" 40% support of locals, the more accurate numbers according to your understanding must be higher.
Speaking of a minority NOW clearly proves what a bigot you are but I don´t care about that.

You have been exposed as a person with zero credibility over and over again.

I don´t get insulted by an 35 year old reject on the other side of the planet on the internet.
I have better things to do.

This discussion is not aimed at depanting you, it´s aimed at the readers to understand a thing or two.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Is that the reason why US soldiers run for the lifes after getting into trouble they can´t handle? I see.

There are absolutly no numbers of how small or large the support is.

But what I had told in the other debate, their military tactics and the shifting of their wider military strategy clearly indicates how signifant their support in the population is. It´s not existent otherwise their guerilla style attacks against real targets would have been more frequent and normal.

Let the readers decide who the fraud is.
If you admit to "atleast" 40% support of locals, the more accurate numbers according to your understanding must be higher.
Speaking of a minority NOW clearly proves what a bigot you are but I don´t care about that.

You have been exposed as a person with zero credibility over and over again.

I don´t get insulted by an 35 year old reject on the other side of the planet on the internet.
I have better things to do.

This discussion is not aimed at depanting you, it´s aimed at the readers to understand a thing or two.

U.S. soldiers are brainwashed kids who have been indoctrinated by video games and this imperial drive to conquest other lands for their hegemonic sustenance.

Guerilla tactic has nothing to do with how much a population supports them; it only means that the military firepower isn't as strong. The Mujahideen used guerilla tactics and hd majority of Afghanistan's support; hence they won. So this argument of yours is merely a False Dichotomy and red herring. Now I maybe wrong about the figures; but to say there's NO significant support while the Taliban are active inside Afghanistan and having access to Afghan villages and even the military is simply impossible.


How does speaking about a minority of the population who support and help the Taliban prove bigotry? Are you feeling ok? Is your brain starting to hurt because your stupidity can't come up with an intelligent reply? Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound?

I like how you change my age everytime we meet; does lying and fabricating things make you feel about being an incompetent failure? You probably run a fastfood restaurant like Alchemist does.

[kakargirl]

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (IRIN) have reported that NATO led forces are now responsible for more civilian deaths in Afghanistan than the Taliban they are fighting. Looks like the strategy of US com

NATO wins from Taliban in killing more civilians


NATO forces have reduced airstrikes, which accounted for 61% of the civilians killed by NATO and Afghan forces last year, according to the U.N. mission. But civilians continue to be endangered.


Four people were killed by NATO troops Monday when their bus driver ignored warnings to stop or slow down as he overtook a NATO convoy. The incident prompted an anti-American protest.



"No system is 100% guaranteed, and regrettably in a very small number of incidents, the warnings are ignored and lethal force is used," Baxter says.
The Helmand governor said in a statement that seven boys and five girls were among the dead and three other children wounded.
Bereaved male relatives cradled the bodies of several young children wrapped in bloody sheets and placed side to side, and brought them in the back of a truck to the provincial capital, Lashkar Gah, Reuters television pictures showed.
"My house was bombarded in the middle of the night and my children were killed ... the Taliban were far away from my home, why was my house bombed?" relative Noor Agha told Reuters.
The NATO air strike comes at a time of high anti-Western sentiment in Afghanistan and days after deadly protests by thousands of people against a night raid by NATO troops in which four people, including two women, were killed.

[retro]

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (IRIN) have reported that NATO led forces are now responsible for more civilian deaths in Afghanistan than the Taliban they are fighting.

This 2007 article that you are quoting from is not an official UN source.

UN Says More Afghan Civilians Killed By NATO Led Mission Than by The Taliban

This however certainly is:

Citing rising death toll, UN urges better protection of Afghan civilians


9 March 2011 – Ordinary Afghans continue to bear the brunt of the ongoing conflict in the country, says a United Nations report released today that points to a 15 per cent rise in the death toll last year and urges greater efforts by all parties to protect civilians.

There were 2,777 conflict-related civilian deaths in 2010, according to the 2010 Annual Report on the Protection of Civilians in Armed Conflict, prepared by the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

Over the past four years, 8,832 civilians have been killed in the conflict with civilian deaths increasing each year.

“We urge all parties to the armed conflict – the anti-government elements, the Government of Afghanistan and international military forces – to do far more in 2011 to comply with their legal responsibilities to protect civilians,” Georgette Gagnon, head of UNAMA’s Human Rights Unit, told a news conference in Kabul.

“2011 should be a year of escalating civilian protection, not another year of increasing civilian casualties,” she added.

Anti-government elements were linked to 2,080 civilian deaths (75 per cent of all civilian deaths), up 28 per cent from 2009, while pro-government forces were linked to 440 civilian deaths (16 per cent), down 26 per cent from 2009. Nine per cent of civilian deaths in 2010 could not be attributed to any party to the conflict.

Suicide attacks and improvised explosive devices killed the most Afghan civilians in the conflict in 2010, taking 1,141 lives, or 55 per cent of civilian deaths attributed to anti-government elements.

In the most alarming trend, the report finds that 462 civilians were assassinated by anti-government elements, up 105 per cent from 2009. Half of civilian assassinations took place in southern Afghanistan, with a 588 per cent increase in 2010 in Helmand province and a 248 per cent increase in Kandahar province.

“In a year of intensified armed conflict, with a surge of activity by pro-government forces and increased use of improvised explosive devices and assassinations by anti-government elements, Afghan civilians paid the price with their lives in even greater numbers in 2010,” said Ivan Šimonovic, UN Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights.

Among tactics used by pro-government forces, aerial attacks continued to have the highest human cost in 2010, killing 171 civilians or 39 per cent of total civilian deaths linked to pro-government forces.

However, in spite of a significant increase in the use of air assets by pro-government forces in 2010, the proportion of civilian deaths attributed to aerial attacks by pro-government forces fell sharply by 52 per cent compared to 2009.

Among some 25 recommendations put forth by UNAMA and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, they urge anti-government elements to immediately cease targeting civilians and withdraw orders that permit attacks and killings of civilians.

They also recommend that the Government establish a standing, professional body with powers to respond to major incidents of civilian casualties and authority to interact with all interested parties on information sharing, investigations and findings.

Citing rising death toll, UN urges better protection of Afghan civilians

[kakargirl]

The 15% rise is due to NATO,with drones computerized planes cos there cowards and love them selves too much, but how much remorse do they really have for those children those tiny children who get blown apart whiles sleeping in their own homes, even at night those are flying.

[kakargirl]

NATO air strikes have killed at least 52 Afghans over the past 24 hours, including 32 civilians and 20 m
embers of the police. The deaths came in two strikes, one in the Helmand Province and another in Nuristan.
The Helmand strike, late Saturday, saw NATO attack helicopters destroy a pair of homes, killing 2 women and 12 children. The strikes also wounded six other civilians. Helmand’s governor’s office said the attack came after a nearby US Marine base was struck by insurgents.
The other strike came on Sunday, in the Nuristan Province. Here, US warplanes responded to reports of a battle between insurg
ents and security forces by opening fire on a group of people they assumed were insurgents. The people turned out to be a group of 18 civilians and 20 police.
The deaths, which Nuristan Governor Jamaluddin Badr termed “friendly fire,” came after the Taliban reportedly ran out of ammunition and fled the clashe
both series killings.

[ScimitarXEdge]

so why are most of the deaths in places where Taliban's committed a suicide bombing Kakargirl?

[kakargirl]

uters) - An air strike called in by NATO-led troops in southern Afghanistan killed 12 children and two women, Afghan officials said on Sunday, one of the worst civilian death tolls by foreign forces in months.
The mistaken killing of civilians by foreign troops, usually during air strikes or night raids, is a
major source of friction between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and his Western backers, and complicates efforts to win support from ordinary Afghans for an increasingly unpopular war.
Karzai condemned the latest apparent case of civilian casualties caused by NATO air strikes, saying he had warned U.S. and NATO troops that their "arbitrary and unnecessary operations" were killing innocent people every day.
He said in a statement issued by the presidential palace the incident in Helmand province in the south was "a big mistake". "It shows that attention is not being paid," he said.
A U.S. Marine base came under fire from insurgents in Helmand, a Taliban stronghold, on Saturday, the Helmand governor said in a statement, leading the base to call for help from the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF).
"ISAF's air strike took place on two civilian houses. Unfortunately 14 innocent civilians were killed and six civilians wounded," the Helmand governor's statement said.
It said seven boys, five girls and two women were among the dead. Three children were among the wounded, it said.
An ISAF spokesman in Kabul said: "We are aware of the reports that alleged civilians were killed yesterday in Helmand." He said an assessment team had been sent to the area and would issue its findings shortly.
Male relatives cradled the bodies of several young children, who were wrapped in bloody sheets and placed side to side. They brought them in the back of a truck to the provincial capital, Lashkar Gah, Reuters pictures showed on Sunday.
"My house was bombarded in the middle of the night and my children were killed ... the Taliban were far away from my home, why was my house bombed?" relative Noor Agha told Reuters.
The NATO air strike comes at a time of high anti-Western sentiment in Afghanistan and days after protests by thousands of people against a night raid by NATO troops in which four people, including two women, were killed.
T
welve people were killed during those protests and in clashes with police in Takhar. More than 80 people were wounded.
In February, four days of operations by Afghan and foreign troops killed 64 civilians in the eastern Kunar province, Afghan officials said, including many women and children. A NATO rocket attack last July killed 39 civilians, almost all women or children, in Helmand.
On Saturday, Karzai ordered the Defence Ministry to take control of the night raids, saying Afghan troops should be carrying out the sensitive operations themselves. Afghans say the raids, carried out on houses suspected of harbouring insurgents, often lead to civilian casualties.
Under a plan agreed by NATO leaders, foreign troops will begin handing over security responsibilities to Afghan troops from July, with a plan to withdraw all combat troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2014.
Despite the presence of some 150,000 foreign troops, violence in Afghanistan last year reached its deadliest phase since U.S.-backed Afghan forces toppled the taliban 2001.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Kakargirl collect all the civilian casualties from NATO actions and tabulate them; then do the same for Taliban suicide attacks and then tell us what comes up

[kakargirl]

so why are most of the deaths in places where Taliban's committed a suicide bombing Kakargirl?

Edge bro the kids who died in july were in house Nato has made a apoligy that their drones could see taliban and their sorry for the mistakes, people rioted and brought the bodys of the dead infront elders in masjid small girls small boys and two women one was expecting .

[emkhan]

There is a difference between deliberate killings and collateral damage... NATO commits the first one.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Edge bro the kids who died in july were in house Nato has made a apoligy that their drones could see taliban and their sorry for the mistakes, people rioted and brought the bodys of the dead infront elders in masjid small girls small boys and two women one was expecting .

Agreed, but we're talking about total numbers

do you agree that just because NATO murders civilians, doesn't mean that Taliban murdering civilians is acceptable.?