Taleban commander stoned to death

[Afghanistan2010]

he's just making excuses to cover up Taliban's feeling of humiliation that they are not welcome by true Muslims.

You have no relatives in Helmand ? ask some locals as i said if any taliban was ever stoned or killed by civilians.

[faye]

google 'genocide of hazaras' and read some eyewitness reports about the talibans behaviour. recently hazaras were on a tv program, here in australia, telling some of their reasons for becoming refugees.
the taliban kill people for working to improve the country as it is considered, working for the enemy. poor innocent people who need to work to survive and keep their families alive.

[Afghanistan2010]

i know myself hazaras (almost all are shia) , they spread mischief in the state of islam with supports from iran.

[IamDZJ]

they wouldn't say commander if it was just some random bearded guy. they would have probably said talib. but then again, why would a commander go to someone's house with only one other person and the shot the guy. it's pretty obvious that almost everyone in the villages have guns at their homes for protection.

[کیش]

google 'genocide of hazaras' and read some eyewitness reports about the talibans behaviour. recently hazaras were on a tv program, here in australia, telling some of their reasons for becoming refugees.
the taliban kill people for working to improve the country as it is considered, working for the enemy. poor innocent people who need to work to survive and keep their families alive.

Lol, those Hazaras are not as innocent as they look.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Didn't Hazaras have their own militia during the war, Hezb e Wahdat?

[ScimitarXEdge]

i know myself hazaras (almost all are shia) , they spread mischief in the state of islam with supports from iran.

there's never an excuse for murdering people, all you're doing is proving the Taliban are evil and bigoted.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Didn't Hazaras have their own militia during the war, Hezb e Wahdat?

yes, but so what? What does killing Hazara civilians have to do with that?

[khushal]

it is reported by multiple independent news outlets....just because Taliban damage control are trying to deny it is as good as Americans denying killing civilians.

Who cares what the Taliban damage control people say and what the American damage control people say, they both lie, that is their job and purpose.

Independent news outlets are quoting Afghan officials as to the facts of the story. News flash: Afghan officials also lie. The reality is We dont know the facts of the story. But Most people familiar with pashtun villages are not inclined to believe that a Taliban commander with one body guard would go directly to a hostile village most likely armed to the teeth like most villages in pashtunland are to assasinate a 60 yr old man. Thats like saying A NATO commander with one soldier bodyguard goes to a pashtun village and kills a 60 yr old man.

[faye]

Lol, those Hazaras are not as innocent as they look.

neither are the taliban.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Who cares what the Taliban damage control people say and what the American damage control people say, they both lie, that is their job and purpose.

Independent news outlets are quoting Afghan officials as to the facts of the story. News flash: Afghan officials also lie. The reality is We dont know the facts of the story. But Most people familiar with pashtun villages are not inclined to believe that a Taliban commander with one body guard would go directly to a hostile village most likely armed to the teeth like most villages in pashtunland are to assasinate a 60 yr old man. Thats like saying A NATO commander with one soldier bodyguard goes to a pashtun village and kills a 60 yr old man.

Basically your response here to the story is simply Conspiracy Theory, ok fine let's assume I grant your conspiracy theory

let me break yours down methodically

a.) The Afghan Officials lie Saying that they HAVE lied and saying that this story is a lie are logically equivalent. Them lying in the past doesn't make this story a lie.

b.) Taliban too lie, so if we argued from your angle, then the Taliban too are lying. In Context of the given variables one of the two groups are lying.

c.) The incentive to lie: we all already know the Taliban openly admit to killing Afghan elders and do so without remorse or reservation, there would be no extra strategical advantage for the Government to lie here, where as the Taliban need to do damage control now both domestically to repair its image and in terms of morale

d.) the NATO are well aware that they're a foreign power, and hence because of their apparent and obvious foreignness will have intrinsic animosity as a military occupying force hence they go fully armed and backed up. The Taliban have this false heir of confidence, that the locals are intimidated by them because of their beheadings and that they somehow have local legitimacy because they speak Pashto. Hence they think they can swagger in, kill an elder and not expect retaliation.

all in all if we take your conspiracy theory apart it totally backfires and shows really the denial is a Taliban conspiracy to nurse their wounds.

[khushal]

a.) The Afghan Officials lie Saying that they HAVE lied and saying that this story is a lie are logically equivalent. Them lying in the past doesn't make this story a lie.

It does not guarantee that it is the truth

b.) Taliban too lie, so if we argued from your angle, then the Taliban too are lying. In Context of the given variables one of the two groups are lying.

you forgot to mention the third group which are the villagers. The villigers could also lie, they killed two people and told the government they were taliban to get away with killing two people.

c.) The incentive to lie: we all already know the Taliban openly admit to killing Afghan elders and do so without remorse or reservation, there would be no extra strategical advantage for the Government to lie here, where as the Taliban need to do damage control now both domestically to repair its image and in terms of morale

The governments incentive to lie is propaganda purpose, you could never have enough propaganda.

d.) the NATO are well aware that they're a foreign power, and hence because of their apparent and obvious foreignness will have intrinsic animosity as a military occupying force hence they go fully armed and backed up. The Taliban have this false heir of confidence, that the locals are intimidated by them because of their beheadings and that they somehow have local legitimacy because they speak Pashto. Hence they think they can swagger in, kill an elder and not expect retaliation.

all in all if we take your conspiracy theory apart it totally backfires and shows really the denial is a Taliban conspiracy to nurse their wounds.

The NATO commander and his one body guard would be dressed up like locals fully bearded and turbans on their heads, so they wouldnt look like foreign occupiers. Special Op soldiers do it all the time but it is not done by a commander with one body guard soldier. A Taliban commander is not a commander if he has no people that can execute an old man for him.

What Im saying is that we dont know the facts of the story. What you are saying is that independent news outlets who quote afghan officials is the truth.

[ScimitarXEdge]

It does not guarantee that it is the truth

but also doesn't guarantee lying.

you forgot to mention the third group which are the villagers. The villigers could also lie, they killed two people and told the government they were taliban to get away with killing two people.

Given the Tribal structure of Afghanistan if that was the case they would have gotten away with it anyways. remember Badal?

The governments incentive to lie is propaganda purpose, you could never have enough propaganda.

That's your own belief; this isn't a universal principle.

The NATO commander and his one body guard would be dressed up like locals fully bearded and turbans on their heads, so they wouldnt look like foreign occupiers. Special Op soldiers do it all the time but it is not done by a commander with one body guard soldier. A Taliban commander is not a commander if he has no people that can execute an old man for him.

Sure but then that completely contradicts your initial argument; you actually just switched your argument....which is cool because it means you concede that the Taliban are fully willing to lie; and furthermore if they were NATO they'd have been discovered after being killed.

Check mate.

What Im saying is that we dont know the facts of the story. What you are saying is that independent news outlets who quote afghan officials is the truth.

What I'm saying is that if we went by that asumption then we dont know ANYTHING at all ...then why are you so adamant about calling Taliban liberators of Afghnistan? You only play off of ambiguity when it suits you but we have practical certainties. The idea of a mass conspiracy to lie is unfounded Independent source EVEN Talib members themselves confirm the behavior There's no strategic advantage to lie and the NATO disguised a Talibs angle would have been exposed by now.

FURTHERMORE One last thing I forgot to mention; the Afghan government would have more reason to cover up the incident because it would demonstrate their failure you to govern and protect Afghanistan/provide security and discredit them more, forcing Afghan civilians to take charge.

In short, the civilians tore Taliban a new hole; Allahu Akbar.

[کیش]

neither are the taliban.

Yea, but the Taliban don't look innocent everybody and their grandma's belief their the devil. Hazaras look innocent and nobody knows about their crimes. They play the innocent role pretty good.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

but also doesn't guarantee lying.




Given the Tribal structure of Afghanistan if that was the case they would have gotten away with it anyways. remember Badal?



That's your own belief; this isn't a universal principle.




Sure but then that completely contradicts your initial argument; you actually just switched your argument....which is cool because it means you concede that the Taliban are fully willing to lie; and furthermore if they were NATO they'd have been discovered after being killed.

Check mate.




What I'm saying is that if we went by that asumption then we dont know ANYTHING at all ...then why are you so adamant about calling Taliban liberators of Afghnistan? You only play off of ambiguity when it suits you but we have practical certainties. The idea of a mass conspiracy to lie is unfounded Independent source EVEN Talib members themselves confirm the behavior There's no strategic advantage to lie and the NATO disguised a Talibs angle would have been exposed by now.

FURTHERMORE One last thing I forgot to mention; the Afghan government would have more reason to cover up the incident because it would demonstrate their failure you to govern and protect Afghanistan/provide security and discredit them more, forcing Afghan civilians to take charge.

In short, the civilians tore Taliban a new hole; Allahu Akbar.

I wouldnt agree. Hekmet Karzai himself has conceded, alongside Zaeef that all that kills is not Talib:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...225708920.html

"Third, an important fact the West needs to understand is that there are many different groups that carry out various acts of violence across Afghanistan - and at the end of the day, most of these acts are attributed to the Taliban."

Furthermore, Badaal, my friend is not such a simple activating mechanism. For instance, the gentleman who killed Mr. Karzai's brother has not had a family member taken in badaal. Furthermore, the badaal if fulfilled if they shot the father and then the sons killed the shooter.

Also, you are stating in the obvious, in that in war, people propagandize and lie. The Prophet Muhammad (S), an excellent strategist himself, noted that war itself is a lie and that subterfuge is a part of it. The man who tries to fight war as a white knight, Arthurian legend type is doomed to defeat. 5000 years of recorded human history clearly demonstrate this. I fault neither the Americans nor the Taliban for these reports as this is the propaganda war in full swing.

The difference is that we now have confirmed situations where the Americans have been caught, red handed, covering up atrocities.
The Taliban make no such qualms. They are not so sophisticated yet, to do so.

Finally, Petreus's red cell memo, regarding shoring up European opinion to back the war, utilizing womens rights as a basis, is now well known and circulated.