Pakistanis will be on the moon in 2013 - pakistani patriot

[abassinafghan]

first of all girls , shouldnt use the internet .

second , excuse me ??? do you have forgett the khodai khitmatkars ? do you have forget bacha khan ,? mirza ali khan ? beytullah mahsud ? the father of mahmud khan akakzai ?

60 years they used a angress name for pashtunistan , nwfp !!!!!

till to day what they represent as autonomy , is nothing more than a status like the native americans in their reservates .

political agencies , political agents , collective punishment .

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ Why should the girls not use internet, if they can make more sense than many of the males? Plus this isn't a topic of whether girls can use internet or not make one and discuss it over there?

No we didn't this is also not a topic in their remembrance and the Angrez Name of KPK

[khushal]

bro you guys have lost touch with pashtun reality and have adopted to paksitani reality.

anyway i,ll be back to this.

It not a pakistani reality, its a problem that we pashtuns have to figure a solution for. Ahmed shah Abdali understood the structure of the pashtun society and he worked within it to unite our people. If we dont understand the problem, how can we find the solution.
Todays pashtun reality is that we are divided.

[khushal]

Khara, if we listen to you your children will be learning urdu in kunar

Open your eyes gul bibi

This prediction of your that pashtuns in Jalalabad and Qandahar will be speaking urdu is nonsense. They haven't yet convinced the Peshawari's to speak Urdu.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

But, there are so, so many points noted by you which is just not correct! First of all, it wasn't the Pukhtunistan issue which 'ruined' Afghanistan. Yes, it restrained our political relationship with Pakistan, but it didn't 'destroy' us. Years before his death Daud Khan had already given up on Pukhtunistan policy, and there was no proof that after he gave up on the policy he kept meddling with Pakistan. Therefore, Pakistani government's policy to train militants against the Afghan government and their approach to strive to see an Pakistani-friendly Kabul was not justified! Mohammad Najibullah didn't have any Loy Afghanistan policy, what was the reason of interference with his government? Taliban didn't have any Loy Afghanistan policy, what was the reason for providing NATO air-space while invading Afghanistan? Yes, Afghan government is to be blamed the most for our situation, but the excuse of Pukhtunistan or Loy Afghanistan being the only reason for Pakistani government to strive for an Pakistan-friendly Kabul is merely an extremely weak excuse, and incorrect statement.

The present state of Afghanistan is directly tied to the Afghan govts Pashtunistan issue.

Now, understand one thing very clearly. Im not offering a moral critique, or judging the validity of the Pashtunistan issue. Im not saying Daud was a bad man for pushing the issue. Because what we know today is not what we knew back then. Like they say, hindsight is a mother fukkker.

When Pakistan was formed, Afghanistan was hostile to this state. They turned to America for assistance, but due to Americans alliance with Pakistan (CENTO/Baghdad Pact), and the ongoing hostility, America declined a security pact with Afghanistan. Forcing Afghanistan to turn to the Soviets, which began the decades old process of Soviet infiltration of Afghanistan, training of thousands of Afghan soldeirs and cadres. It was the entrenchment of this Soviet assistance and presence, that allowed Daud to crack down on Ikhwanis. It also led Daud Khan to eventually realize his mistake, crack down on the commies, which forced them to react. The rest is history.

Daud did come to an agreement with Bhutto, but this was scuttled by Bhuttos execution. Furthermore, by the late 1970s, while Pakistan may have retained ties to Islamists, there is no proof that outside of their failed uprising in the mid 70s, the Islamists were a threat of any kind. The threat to the Afghan republic was the PDPA. Did you know that the Khalqis, who were predominately tribal Pakhtuns, energized their base by claiming Daud sold them out on the Pakhtunistan issue? The same Tarakai later offered to recognize the Durand if the Pakistanis stopped funding the uprisings against them. Further proof that Afghanistans support for Pakhtunistan was and is always lip service.

Furthermore, when the Afghan state has a anti Pashtunistan policy for DECADES, and there is a temporary change, this by no means, means that the anti Pakistan policy has dissappeared, and no self respecting Pakistani analyst would have assumed that the issue was done because Daud decided it was done after advocating it for decades.

Why didnt the Pakistani govt make peace with Najibullah? Were the heads of any of the Peshawar 7 willing to make peace with Najibullah? I recognize his crimes, but I believe he shouldve remained in power. But we both know, his destiny was written. It was way too late to salvage Najib.As for the Pakistani govts support for NATO, well my dear, in life we have hierarchies. Pakistan is above us, but theyre several stories below NATO. They couldnt resist them even if they wanted.

Was Loy Afghanistan the excuse before? Yes. Now? Hmmm, I believe that the Pakistani state, based on its ideology and logic of its founding, is inherently expasionist at this point, Hence we need to do what we can to keep this cancer away. Ending Pashtunistan is one step in this direction but by no means, the only step.

It's also not true that Pakistani government's struggle was mainly to make Afghanistan a sixth province, this is merely an excuse used by especially Ahmad Shah Massoud supporters to degrade Taliban and their supporters. Yes, before all the wars, it's true that Pakistan wanted Afghanistan to merge with them which was strongly objected and rejected by the Afghan government. But after the wars there were no talks of federation between Afghanistan and Pakistan, there were no Pakistani soldiers 'capturing' Afghanistan, or any other similar signal. In fact, why would they force the Taliban to sign the Durrand Line agreement if they were planning to take a sixth province anyway? Taliban was possibly the only Pakistan-friendly Afghan government (for obvious reasons) and even they refused to recognize the Durrand Line, but they didn't fight for 'Pukhtunistan' or 'Loy Afghanistan' either. Same-wise I know many Pakistani Pukhtoons who love Pakistan, who want the betterment of Pakistan, but even they don't recognize any border between us. Even the ANP isn't fighting for 'Loy Afghanistan' but even they don't recognize any border between us. Now does that mean Pakhtunkhwa's state today is due to their 'stubbornness' of not recognizing the Durrand Line? As for Amanullah Khan, he didn't 'reject' Pakistani Pukhtoons out of ignorance or arrogance. He was said to have admired Pacha Khan a lot and even had talks with him. He did that to stop the influence of former British India completely. The British have proven themselves cheaters and liars throughout their conflicts with Afghanistan and it was obvious Amanullah Khan would take steps to put them in check; Even if that meant closing the entire border.

Do you not realize the statements of Pakistani politicians, claiming that the Durand was not pushed to the Oxus? The budgets set aside for their "fifth" province? The Pakistani intelligence, army and political officers in Afghanistan during the Taliban era? By this point, the Pashtunistan issue was obviously dead, I dont dispute that. But it was too late. The tables have turned, the Pakistani state is now the expansionary one.

Also, the Pakistanis were not gonna just waltz in and annex the place. Theyre far smarter than what we give them credit for. First they create Afghan dependency, then Afghan subservience, then penetration economically and politically of Afghanistan, finally this county falls in their laps.

And again, Im not offering a moral judgement. In hindsight, what Amir Amanullah Khan did was great. In affirming the Durand, because like you said he wanted to keep the British cancer away. The problem is that Zahir Shah/Daud Khan didnt realize that the British cancer spawned into the Muhghal Cancer. He shouldve kept his focus on preventing their penetration instead of poking his finger in a wasps nest.

As for Pukhto 'dying' in Afghanistan, I suggest you visit Afghanistan as soon as you can. I also suggest you to not to speak Dari when you arrive there and tell me how many people didn't understand your Pukhto? Yes, some might pretend not to understand it, but I haven't met any, not even one, 'Kabuli' unable to at least understand Pukhto, if not speaking it.

I dont care if everyone in Afghanistan knows how to speak Pashto. Is it a zaban e markazi? zaban e kitabi? Its not the lingua franca, it is still not on a level where a world class education can be delivered in it. We still lack proper urban centres around which Pashtun culture can be nurtured on a Kabul like level.

Why do you think all these Pakhtun tribes speak Farsi today? Cuz they went to Kabul for opportunities, instead of turning Ghazi, Kandahar and Jalalbad into Kabuls themselves. They went to Kabul, and hence Popalzais become Popalzadahs.

We have ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of work to do in Afghanistan for Pashto. In every capacity, in every category. And we;re talking a multi generational effort here.

Keep the Mughals at Torkham.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

You sound like Latif Pedram.
And you know how high the percentage of Afghans were who voted for him, right? Yes, 0,5 %.


One thing should be clear from the start:

no self-proclaimed advocate of the Pashtun cause can decide for a nation of 70 Millions.
If they unite or not is up to them!

From my perspective these discussions, written words on the internet, are meant to adress a wider audience on the internet.
Let Pashtuns have free access to information, let them build their own political, social and historical conscience based on every kind of information and disinformation.
The truth is deep in their hearts, they will find it one day.....or their childrens.

Even the Paki-supporters like Shehbaz and others who come here to defend an entity that uproots them culturally are well aware but they lack the guts for a change because they benefit privatly from an entity called Pakistan.
They have their business, shops etc. and all they care about is their own life.

Political conscienceness is attached to the standard of life.
If people have a good standard of life or a really bad one, then they will go for a change.
The state they are in is that of modern-day Lumpenproletariats.....for them it´s not bad enough and they see a chance for improvement.

Only if their fata morganas get destroyed, they will realise.

Let´s discuss here, let´s give those thousands of unregistered and registered Pashtuns across the globe read our words and come to their own conclusions.
A unification among us Pashtuns is the most natural thing in this world.
Not a sane person would promote that a family for example live physically separated.

Time will tell!

Latif Pedram has a good idea or two but hes an idiot. Do not compare the Amir with him

Second, the Pakhtun people have already decided on this isssue. In real life this issue is dead.

Third, I have never said Im against Pakhtun unity or that I would recognize the Durand. I just believe the best path to Pakhtun unity is to shut up about it for the next 50 yrs, keep the Mughals away, until Bharat has its way with them. Youll see how quickly Plankay Khan drop kicks his Chaudry friends to rush back to us.

Trust the Amirs judgement, he knows best.

[Zahed]

The present state of Afghanistan is directly tied to the Afghan govts Pashtunistan issue.

Now, understand one thing very clearly. Im not offering a moral critique, or judging the validity of the Pashtunistan issue. Im not saying Daud was a bad man for pushing the issue. Because what we know today is not what we knew back then. Like they say, hindsight is a mother fukkker.

When Pakistan was formed, Afghanistan was hostile to this state. They turned to America for assistance, but due to Americans alliance with Pakistan (CENTO/Baghdad Pact), and the ongoing hostility, America declined a security pact with Afghanistan. Forcing Afghanistan to turn to the Soviets, which began the decades old process of Soviet infiltration of Afghanistan, training of thousands of Afghan soldeirs and cadres. It was the entrenchment of this Soviet assistance and presence, that allowed Daud to crack down on Ikhwanis. It also led Daud Khan to eventually realize his mistake, crack down on the commies, which forced them to react. The rest is history.

Daud did come to an agreement with Bhutto, but this was scuttled by Bhuttos execution. Furthermore, by the late 1970s, while Pakistan may have retained ties to Islamists, there is no proof that outside of their failed uprising in the mid 70s, the Islamists were a threat of any kind. The threat to the Afghan republic was the PDPA. Did you know that the Khalqis, who were predominately tribal Pakhtuns, energized their base by claiming Daud sold them out on the Pakhtunistan issue? The same Tarakai later offered to recognize the Durand if the Pakistanis stopped funding the uprisings against them. Further proof that Afghanistans support for Pakhtunistan was and is always lip service.

Furthermore, when the Afghan state has a anti Pashtunistan policy for DECADES, and there is a temporary change, this by no means, means that the anti Pakistan policy has dissappeared, and no self respecting Pakistani analyst would have assumed that the issue was done because Daud decided it was done after advocating it for decades.

Why didnt the Pakistani govt make peace with Najibullah? Were the heads of any of the Peshawar 7 willing to make peace with Najibullah? I recognize his crimes, but I believe he shouldve remained in power. But we both know, his destiny was written. It was way too late to salvage Najib.As for the Pakistani govts support for NATO, well my dear, in life we have hierarchies. Pakistan is above us, but theyre several stories below NATO. They couldnt resist them even if they wanted.

Was Loy Afghanistan the excuse before? Yes. Now? Hmmm, I believe that the Pakistani state, based on its ideology and logic of its founding, is inherently expasionist at this point, Hence we need to do what we can to keep this cancer away. Ending Pashtunistan is one step in this direction but by no means, the only step.



Do you not realize the statements of Pakistani politicians, claiming that the Durand was not pushed to the Oxus? The budgets set aside for their "fifth" province? The Pakistani intelligence, army and political officers in Afghanistan during the Taliban era? By this point, the Pashtunistan issue was obviously dead, I dont dispute that. But it was too late. The tables have turned, the Pakistani state is now the expansionary one.

Also, the Pakistanis were not gonna just waltz in and annex the place. Theyre far smarter than what we give them credit for. First they create Afghan dependency, then Afghan subservience, then penetration economically and politically of Afghanistan, finally this county falls in their laps.

And again, Im not offering a moral judgement. In hindsight, what Amir Amanullah Khan did was great. In affirming the Durand, because like you said he wanted to keep the British cancer away. The problem is that Zahir Shah/Daud Khan didnt realize that the British cancer spawned into the Muhghal Cancer. He shouldve kept his focus on preventing their penetration instead of poking his finger in a wasps nest.



I dont care if everyone in Afghanistan knows how to speak Pashto. Is it a zaban e markazi? zaban e kitabi? Its not the lingua franca, it is still not on a level where a world class education can be delivered in it. We still lack proper urban centres around which Pashtun culture can be nurtured on a Kabul like level.

Why do you think all these Pakhtun tribes speak Farsi today? Cuz they went to Kabul for opportunities, instead of turning Ghazi, Kandahar and Jalalbad into Kabuls themselves. They went to Kabul, and hence Popalzais become Popalzadahs.

We have ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of work to do in Afghanistan for Pashto. In every capacity, in every category. And we;re talking a multi generational effort here.

Keep the Mughals at Torkham.

so what ur basically saying is that whatever happened in AFG is our fault 'n whatever Pakiis did in AFG was also our own fault?? that nation has been surviving on aid 'n terrorist fundings since their birth, they 've not just encouraged Islamists to fight in AFG but also in India for many decades 'n now even Iran 'n their best mates the Chinese blame them for supporting terrorism on foreign soil !! if u claim they had no choice than to play American puppies while nato invaded AFG then even Dawood Khan was left with no choice than to side the Russians in the beginning.. if they feared our interference anyway then they could 've kept their borders fenced forever , morgh kam goyesh kam.. 'n who btw 're those pigs to make peace deal with Najibullah , or Masood or anyone in AFG??? they never supported peace in our country cuz the poorer we remain the more dependent we 're on them 'n thats exactly what they feared Najibullah would do , support an AFG NOT dependent on Pakiiland!!

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

response to your 2 bolded points

so what ur basically saying is that whatever happened in AFG is our fault 'n whatever Pakiis did in AFG was also our own fault?? that nation has been surviving on aid 'n terrorist fundings since their birth, they 've not just encouraged Islamists to fight in AFG but also in India for many decades 'n now even Iran 'n their best mates the Chinese blame them for supporting terrorism on foreign soil !! if u claim they had no choice than to play American puppies while nato invaded AFG then even Dawood Khan was left with no choice than to side the Russians in the beginning.. if they feared our interference anyway then they could 've kept their borders fenced forever , morgh kam goyesh kam.. 'n who btw 're those pigs to make peace deal with Najibullah , or Masood or anyone in AFG??? they never supported peace in our country cuz the poorer we remain the more dependent we 're on them 'n thats exactly what they feared Najibullah would do , support an independent AFG !!

1. well, exactly i never claimed to offer a moral critique of dauds policy. just offering an analysis after the fact on its effeciency and success

2. so then, knowing that they are our enemies, knowing the lar pakhtuns stand with them, why the hell would you want unity now? youre just opening the door for the Mughals to take us over, via their pakhtun proxies?
all the more reason to shut the door

[Zahed]

lol I 'll be the happiest person on earth if our entire bloody borders get fenced , mined 'n uncrossable !! I dont want Afghan Pashtoons to associate with them at all just like how we 're keeping distance from Iranigaka , but I dont believe that Pashtunistan was only reason for their barking cuz they even got their ass burned by the fact we prefered India over them which was our bloody right.. let them suffer for coming more yrs so they understand how interference can take millions of innocent lives ..

[khushal]

Latif Pedram has a good idea or two but hes an idiot. Do not compare the Amir with him

Second, the Pakhtun people have already decided on this isssue. In real life this issue is dead.

Third, I have never said Im against Pakhtun unity or that I would recognize the Durand. I just believe the best path to Pakhtun unity is to shut up about it for the next 50 yrs, keep the Mughals away, until Bharat has its way with them. Youll see how quickly Plankay Khan drop kicks his Chaudry friends to rush back to us.

Trust the Amirs judgement, he knows best.

No Afghan government nor Pakistan government has been able to shut up about it. Pakistan has always demanded acceptance from the Afghan side, shutting up isnt going to fool the pakistanis. Plankay khan and friends will never leave the pakistani state, there is no incentive for them. If they have issues, they will solve it within the pakistani state.
If the Afghan government does accept the durand line, they will be landlocked forever leaving them vulnerable to influence from regional players. Afghanistan is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Dinosaur Khan]

No Afghan government nor Pakistan government has been able to shut up about it. Pakistan has always demanded acceptance from the Afghan side, shutting up isnt going to fool the pakistanis. Plankay khan and friends will never leave the pakistani state, there is no incentive for them. If they have issues, they will solve it within the pakistani state.
If the Afghan government does accept the durand line, they will be landlocked forever leaving them vulnerable to influence from regional players. Afghanistan is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Even getting KPK, afghanistan would be still landlocked.

[RanadahRanadah]

Pashto Afghan Unity Song for Loy Afghanistan & Pakhtunkhwa - YouTube

sooner or later unity will prevail !

[khushal]

Even getting KPK, afghanistan would be still landlocked.

Not necessarily, Pashtun Unity will further strengthen Baluch's independence. Baluch and pashtuns have a common alliance. Baluch interests neither lie with the Indic people nor with the Iranians. Baluch and pashtuns can not ignore each other economically. This inevitable alliance would grant Afghanistan access to the Indian ocean.

[r3alist]

My whole point is that a weak, undermined and controllable Afghanistan is inherently in Pakistan's interest, whether Pakistan likes it or not

are you mad?

you think pakistani's wants these stray afghans causing hassle?

you dont think it would be a godsend to not have to worry about afghan tribalism?


you perhaps dont have full use of your senses - your nation and people have been ripped apart and killed the most by foreigners - the british, the russians and the americans.

you are living in dreamland.

[RanadahRanadah]

Afghanistan is weak but we have never recogonized Durrand Line Panjab must leave pashtons/Afghans lands! alone and we will live with a Pakistan in peace no issues! but must leave pashtons/Afghans land to Pashtons/Afghans themsleves!