Karzai and company sell out Afghanistan

[unknownprince]

lol this guy Karzai and Spanta will probably end up like DuaD Duad and Wali.

No one recognizes them. I want them to sign it, they should then see.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^
he probably live in an american base

well YOU DEFINITELY reside in a Western country.....so your credibility is much less than his regardless.

[faye]

It was never about Osama or Al qaeda.

i'm not sure that it was never about osama, but i understand the master plan from the project for the new american century, was to take control of the middle east and basically, the world. quite a project, eh?

[graveyardofempires]

well YOU DEFINITELY reside in a Western country.....so your credibility is much less than his regardless.

not really

what amazes me about you is sometime syou claim to be smart but when it comes to Afghanistan you try to play ignorant.

whats with that BRo?

what if i told you "i reside in a western country but you were born in one"?

my credibility comes from my personal experience plus knowing my Afghan people.You probably dont know what im taking about?right?

[Talal]

well Iraqis didnt let them have a permanent base so i dont see why Afghans would agree to it,.

The strategy now I guess should be for Afghans to concentrate a great deal more on gaining control of areas that are most likely candidates for permanent bases. Bagram air base is their way into the country the Afghan government would need to make sure they can somehow regain control of that

[graveyardofempires]

^
the afghan governement is full of cowards who cant face up to the invaders.
karzai said "if another bombing or night raid happens than we will look at these people as invaders rather than friends" night raids and bombings happend and karzai was silence like a rat holding cheese.

[Talal]

unfortunately these night raids too were ok'd by Karzai under a formal agreement in 2001, and not just that it explicitly allowed the NATO to carry out raids in civilian areas without any regard for the civilian casualties. You would be surprised to read how blunt the language was in that agreement

But situation is different now, Americans weren't on the run back then now they are. I personally think it is never going to happen, unless they make some sort of deal with guys like Dostum but that also doesnt make sense because those areas are strategically irrelevant. Russia, China would literally take it as a call for arms if they set up bases that close up North.

So yeah if its gonna be, it will be Bagram cuz besides that there is no air base that can handle their C-17s and they need those bring in all the equipment. The Talibs aren't gonna let em have that, im betting my money on that

[AFG21]

I was born in Afghanistan and leaved there til my tenth birthday. I still remember what Taliban did and what the situation was at that time. I have expirinced there Sharia Law and how they governd the country Taliba sold our country to arabs and Pakistani, only if you have leaved in the time of taliban you can say something about this matter other ways just shut your mouth.

[ScimitarXEdge]

not really

what amazes me about you is sometime syou claim to be smart but when it comes to Afghanistan you try to play ignorant.

whats with that BRo?

what if i told you "i reside in a western country but you were born in one"?

my credibility comes from my personal experience plus knowing my Afghan people.You probably dont know what im taking about?right?

'


which is basically saying you have no credibility at all ...because everything you say is anecdotal and not actual experience.

[unknownprince]

^They are simply unifying the whole region against them.

Good analysis. I would not be suprised if Taliban receive more clandestine regional support now more than ever.

[graveyardofempires]

'


which is basically saying you have no credibility at all ...because everything you say is anecdotal and not actual experience.

i dotn have to tell you about my experience,and no i didnt have to watch american channels to know abotu gorund realities.

the best you can do is research and try to know the point of view of Afghans.

[unknownprince]

unfortunately these night raids too were ok'd by Karzai under a formal agreement in 2001, and not just that it explicitly allowed the NATO to carry out raids in civilian areas without any regard for the civilian casualties. You would be surprised to read how blunt the language was in that agreement

But situation is different now, Americans weren't on the run back then now they are. I personally think it is never going to happen, unless they make some sort of deal with guys like Dostum but that also doesnt make sense because those areas are strategically irrelevant. Russia, China would literally take it as a call for arms if they set up bases that close up North.

So yeah if its gonna be, it will be Bagram cuz besides that there is no air base that can handle their C-17s and they need those bring in all the equipment. The Talibs aren't gonna let em have that, im betting my money on that

From MK Bhadrakumar

ZM has also given a ‘doosra’. He has indirectly let the Americans know Taliban’s military is being ‘modernised’. Do you get the point? It was one such ‘modernisation’ - stinger missiles - that proved a turning point in the jihad in the 1980s. Are the Taliban preparing to challenge American air power? They know US troops can’t fight without air cover. Or, are they getting rockets that can set the US bases on fire? Time will tell.
ZM reiterated that Taliban will oppose the US’ so-called ’strategic agreement’ with President Hamid Karzai on permanent American military bases in Afghanistan. Clearly, the US peace track - and Karzai’s peace track - has ended in a cul-de-sac. Now what? The US will go on fighting till 2024?

[ScimitarXEdge]

when it comes to Afghanistan you are plain dumb****.

i dotn have to tell you about my experience,and no i didnt have to watch american channels to know abotu gorund realities.

the best you can do is research and try to know the point of view of Afghans.

But you have nothing except anecdotes which no one else can verify and confirm; to respond back to me with so your arguments are just hot air and bantering they don't discredit anything I have said.

This is the same tactic which was used by the secularists on this forum.

if you have researched information, show your sources ...direct references; until then you're peddling an empty argument of sissy whining and rhetoric.

[unknownprince]

But you have nothing except anecdotes which no one else can verify and confirm; to respond back to me with so your arguments are just hot air and bantering they don't discredit anything I have said.

This is the same tactic which was used by the secularists on this forum.

if you have researched information, show your sources ...direct references; until then you're peddling an empty argument of sissy whining and rhetoric.

your Western 'research' (i.e propaganda against the Afghan people ) versus GOE who is directly from there. I will take GOE's facts over your sources.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You can not make a single Soozan in Afghanistan and you talk about freedom? You are not free, and you never been free in the last 200 yrs. Because if you were free, the Brits would not have divided you physically, the Russians would not have divided you mentally, the Pakistani would not have divided you psychologically where you strap bombs on your freaking heads. Free people do not kill one of their own, they do not find the need to bicycle bomb, they will not send their children for suicide missions, and surely they won’t strap bombs to their heads. You are not and were not free. Pashton Freedom is akin to Nazi Humanity- non existent and a mere illusion. You were broken in half and divided. And then your divided lot got further divided into ikhwanis, commies, talibs, nationalists, ghilzai and so on and so forth. And you call this freedom? Afghanistan has been under foreign occupation one way or the other since Zaman Shah. It was after Zaman Shah that Afghanistan could not afford the costs accrued by its government. Hence it had to turn to Brits, or Russian, or Arabs to finance itself. Hence your division by the Brits, and Russia. Today you are ruled, used and abused by Pakistan and you call this freedom?

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE BUDDY.


Only way out of this age old occupation is through an Afghanistan that has solid institutions. But its you retards and moron who, delusionally thinking that they are free, stand against construction of anything positive for Afghanistan. I want the US to stay untill Afghanistan gets to build all of its public institutions, an economy, and an education system. Thats our only way out. I want the US to stay untill the time they are asked out by an Afghan govt—like Iraq and not by turban bombings.

Globally US is competing with China, Russia, and Iran. Afghanistan becomes a vital strategic asset.
Regionally Iran, Pakistan, India, Saudi and Russia are competing over Afghanistan

Can you calculate/imagine/estimate THE TOTAL WEALTH of Iran, Pakistan, India, Russia, US, Saudi, and China?
Now try to do the same for Afghanistan.

Now compare them. Which one is Greater? Afghanistan looks like a beggar in comparison.

Then make this conclusion:
Just like a beggar does not have a say over his state of being, Afghanistan does not have a say over the state of its affairs. Foreign powers have managed the affairs of Afghanistan for over 200 years and its going to be so in the foreseeable future. Just like a beggar's dissatisfaction or protest does not amount to anything positive, Afghans' protests and dissatisfaction would also not amount to anything positive. If the beggar wants to improve his existence he must find a job, take responsibility, and act according to the society. In Afghanistan's case if it wants to improve its state it must build an economy first before anything and then start acting according to the norms of international community. For example not rent out your country for terrorists and hoodlums.
US is by far the biggest economy among them all and it has the best economic model to help Afghanistan. From modern management methods to IT and global economy US could be of IMMENSE help for Afghanistan. A short term partnership with the US is the best opportunity for Afghanistan to make its economy and then would be FREE like other countries and could maintain this FREEDOM indefinitely. Either this, or Afghanistan would be condemned to repeat its history. Logic and reason over emotion!

Hence Death to Turban bombings, Long Live economic Jihad!

Spoken like a true slave!

A simple response is in order:

1) What writ or guarantee or promise do you have from the Americans, who have, per the available historical record, never left a land that was pacified by their army? Iraq? Give me a break, Maliki has yet to ask them to officially leave. And when I say leave, I mean in all capacities (trainers, special forces, mercenaries, etc). You, a blind man, are attempting to sell a broke down car to those that can see with clear eyes.

There is one nation that they left in totality and it is called Vietnam.

2) It is obvious your goals have nothing at all to do with Afghan autonomy. After all, how decrepit and lacking in merit are you that you require an outside power to build up your institutions? Whats to say that you can maintain these institutions once they are handed to you? The puppets in power are the failures, the sycophants, the yes men, who never were successfull in the West... and you expect them to be able to maintain modern western institutions?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010302175.html

Let me give you a clear and clean example: Dr. Faizullah Kakar... deputy Health minister:
This guy is in charge of rebuilding Afghanistan's shattered medical insfrastructure? What a joke. The guy releases press statements every few days about how Afghans shouldnt eat fatty foods (really Dr. Saib, are you this oblivious to the ground level situation? when their bellys cannot get any food?)... or about pollution levels. Contrast that when America's NIH leadership under the likes of technologist physician and radiologist leader Elias Zerhouni. Its a sick sick joke, and ironically, he has no medical training.

Yet our family KNOWS his family and KNOWS how he got this job.

3) Terrorists and hoodlums? Created by who? By the Afghan people? Or by the same interventionalism in other lands (Saudi) that brought the mess to Afghanistan's doorstep in the first place. The same drug dealer you want to buy your fix from is the same one that polluted other neighborhoods and instigated this global conflageration in the first place.

4) Maintenance of freedom indefinitely? Really? How? By following the example of the neighboring istans? Do you mean the hegemony in Tajikistan or Uzbekistan? Those bastions of independent thought and massive success (sarcasm). Let me tell you a story... about a country whose people also bought into myths that an empire, with a completely unrelated ethnic and religious history, would improve their nation for free for them. They even joined that nations army, and fought and died, in far off lands like Sudan, to perish under the banner of Union Jack in a fight against Hitler in a war that had nothing to do with them... all because to be a commissioned British officer (though you could never sit with the white guy in the mess hall) was the supreme worldly gain. That nation also had its oligarchy with its Karzais and its Ghanis and Ameen Arsalas who wanted to preserve their feudalism... It was created in 1947 and its leaders have taken corruption to pinnacles unheard of before.

So in the end, you want to create a slave state next to another one. Ironic is it not?

5) Ask any and all subjugated people about what their outcome has been. Go to Tecumseh's grave and ask his spirit why he fought the Americans so ardently, to the death. I am sure it will point to the status of his destroyed Red Man brethren. Then take a look as Japan and the bases at Okinawa, and the destruction of a culture completely.

How were the resistence struggles, as bloody as they were, done by the Vietcong any different?

In fact, this reporting by the New York Times should strike an eerie chord and make you rethink which side of history you want to fall on:
-------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote:
Officials Cite 83% Turnout Despite Vietcong Terror

by Peter Grose, Special to the New York Times (9/4/1967: p. 2)

WASHINGTON, Sept. 3-- United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.

According to reports from Saigon, 83 per cent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong.

The size of the popular vote and the inability of the Vietcong to destroy the election machinery were the two salient facts in a preliminary assessment of the nation election based on the incomplete returns reaching here.

http://last-straw.net/us-encouraged-by-vote/