Former Taliban Commander Mawlawi Azizullah Agha admits to Pakistani influence

[ScimitarXEdge]

depends on his motives


the point of this thread was to counter Ashraf's propaganda tactics; not to demonize people who resist Imperialism.

[khushal]

depends on his motives


the point of this thread was to counter Ashraf's propaganda tactics; not to demonize people who resist Imperialism.

There are many in the Taliban as well as the Afghan Government that are opportunists. They move back and forth and calculate where there best financial interests lie. Just like in the 90's when warlords changed alliances so fast and frequent that commanders were confused who was friend and who was foe each day.

[faye]

so what happens if the taliban get control again in afghanistan? will every person who has done work to help with progress there, get beheaded by ashraf and his gang as traitors?

[ScimitarXEdge]

that's why I make a distinction between Mainline Taliban, which is what ashraf seems to represent and people who just nomially or people who get lumped with the Taliban by default.

I don't even think people who join/lay down arms against the government are necessarily "slaves" or "collaborators"; many people just don't know what to do to stop their people dying so they stop fighting because they feel it's part of the problem.

[Niazi]

The thing is Naizi, you cant fight your own battles because you are cowardly. You are giving it up in exchange for US soldiers fighting for you.

Sure if I take dollar and use some of it to build my war ravaged country ,make coward but but if I take Arabs Rayal ,pakistani Kaldar or Iranian Toman and destory my country kill my people then I'm braveheart if I die I'll take 72 birds.

If serving my make me coward so be it,

Btw the above bs coming from somebody who live in uncle Sam lap.


Toba toba hypocrisy to the max.

[Niazi]

so what happens if the taliban get control again in afghanistan? will every person who has done work to help with progress there, get beheaded by ashraf and his gang as traitors?

Well if that happen it will be the end of Afghanistan as we know it.

Afghanistan made of lots other ethnics group which most of them rather die fighting then live under them.

[r3alist]

someone needs to look after this rabble and afghan mess.

[Afghanistan2010]

Karzai and his government is a puppet government full of dogs,criminals and those who sold their mothers and sisters and asses to the americans and its allies.

Everyone who support this puppet government is an enemy of afghanistan and islam.
The same about Pakistan and its puppet government and most of the rest of so called islamic countries.


May Allah punish all enemies of Islam and bring his wrath overthem in this world and hereafter.

Ameen

[r3alist]

May Allah punish all enemies of Islam and bring his wrath overthem in this world and hereafter.

how about you do something constructive?

[khushal]

Sure if I take dollar and use some of it to build my war ravaged country ,make coward but but if I take Arabs Rayal ,pakistani Kaldar or Iranian Toman and destory my country kill my people then I'm braveheart if I die I'll take 72 birds.

If serving my make me coward so be it,

Btw the above bs coming from somebody who live in uncle Sam lap.


Toba toba hypocrisy to the max.

Your serving no one, your not fighting your own battles. your people are hiding behind US soldiers. What does living in the US have to do with anything. There are many frustrated people in the US whos sons are sent to Afghanistan to die because cowards like you cant fight your own battles.

Preach to yourself about hypocrisy.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Taliban are hiding behind Pakistani support and commands EVEN when Pakistan is collaborating with NATO , why is Taliban hypocrisy so acceptable but others are worth condemnation?

[AfghanResistance]

We dont know whether the taliban have links with the ISI or not but we sure know the present government of Afghanistan is a pupet of the U.S and its allies.

Its a conspiracy theory that the taliban are under the ISI because up until now, no one has provided any proof of such a phenomena. so my opinion is leave it until there is substantial evidence to suggest such or indications of the contrary.

One thing i have to say is that, whether it be taliban or just local Afghan's. Those who are fighting for the freedom of our country are a thousand times better than those who hide behind the U.S army for dollars and due to fear.

One of the main Afghan generals was asked by the American General whether they would manage without the western forces in southern Afghanistan and the Afghan general replied "we would only last 24 hours"

Karzai's government is full of warlords who have blood on their hands, who have taken large payments from foreign agents and now they think they can represent our people. I dont think so!.

Karzai himself is corrupt who got influential people to rig the votes in return for positions. A 12 year old girl once came with her father and brother seeking justice because she was raped by three men, who had jumped over the house wall. They came to karzai for justice. Even though they caught the rapists. kazai wrote a letter of pardon for the three men because they were related to some of the warlords in his cabinet. Who the hell does he think he is, it is the right of the girl to pardon not him.

This government needs to be eradicated and replaced, as well as the warlords and only one group has ever succeeded in our recent history.

You know full well who they are.

[ScimitarXEdge]

actually we do know

Wikileaks exposed that the Taliban are linked with the ISI

WikiLeaks and the ISI-Taliban nexus | Peter Galbraith | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

there is no conspiracy theory, it is verified fact now.

No one is saying the Karzai is the proper alternative, but they are saying the Taliban probably do as much raping, looting, and murdering as any other warlord

[AfghanResistance]

actually we do know

Wikileaks exposed that the Taliban are linked with the ISI

WikiLeaks and the ISI-Taliban nexus | Peter Galbraith | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

there is no conspiracy theory, it is verified fact now.

No one is saying the Karzai is the proper alternative, but they are saying the Taliban probably do as much raping, looting, and murdering as any other warlord

Wiki-leaks exposed American and British intelligence. Now that cannot be taken as proof due to the fact that we knew all along that is what the Americans and British have been claiming and they have not been very secretive about it. Even in the u.s. senate many politicians and military generals elucidated this from their own intelligence.

Now if one studies the cold war, you will find that they were absolutely wrong about many things and if they had gone along with their intelligence and acted upon it, there would have been an out break of world war 3, based on incorrect information. Intelligence is a guideline and not absolute science.

I agree that it is very likely the ISI support the Taliban of Afghanistan but i do not believe that the Taliban are ISI agents for a second.

The ISI may support them because they are the only ones in recent history that brought stability to Afghanistan and therefore this stability would allow a pipe line of gas to be installed through Afghanistan from central Asia.

Also pakistan (ISI) does not like the u.s based in Afghanistan because it is destabilising neighbouring Pakistan and therefore would support any group who helps the ejection of western forces.

Another reason they may support the Taliban is because they do not want a strong Afghanistan. At the moment they nearly have a 200,000 army.
They already class both their neighbours, india and iran as enemies and surely it would add to their problems with a third.

Also Afghanistan has never forgotten Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Balouchistan and do not recognise the Durrand line and therefore would do anything do destabilise Afghanistan so that they are never strong enough to claim it back. On the other hand i read in a news paper article many years ago that the ISI asked the Taliban whether they had any claim to the Pukhtun areas of Pakistan i.e. is this on their horizon upon taken full control of Afghanistan and they replied "not at all, we are only interested in the establishment of sharia law" and therefore it was in the interest of the ISI to support them.

in the end there are many possibilities and our people need to first educate themselves. create effective intelligence units of our own and be wise in every situation. Only then will we work in the interest of our people.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Sure it can, Wikileaks showed intelligence that Americans/British were trying to keep classified and from the public eye. Which means it is raw and authentic data.

Comparing it to the cold war is an logically incongruent correlation. a.) the whole reason WHY they didn't act on war with Russia/Soviets is because of the intelligence that the Soviets were not nearly as nefariously inclined, while in reality the U.S. was. b.) The Intelligence is in regards to an Ally, not an enemy.

What you're doing isn't refuting, but rather making excuses why evidence connecting the Taliban to the ISI exists; this is called "white washing" in Logical Debate.

WikiLeaks Memos Say Ex-ISI Chief Plotted Karzai Assassination

"The documents indicate how ISI officials attend meetings of the Taliban and issue orders to militants. … and report that al-Qaeda, the Taliban and [ex-ISI chief] General Gul plotted to kill President Karzai; and that an ISI officer, Colonel Muhammad Yousaf, directed Taliban leader Maulvi Ezatullah to supervise the assassination plot."

July 28, 2010

Afghanistan - Outlook Afghanistan - Home Page


Founder, spokesperson and editor in chief of WikiLeaks Julian Assange: His group's release of 90,000 classified documents pertaining to Afghanistan has turned the media world and world at large upside down.

BBC NEWS AUDIO: Daniel Ellsberg, who was behind the 1971 leak of the Pentagon Papers, compares his release to that of WikiLeaks, July 27, 00:04:22

Leaked Afghan war logs show that former Pakistan spy chief, Lieutenant General Hamid Gul (retired), connived with al-Qaeda and the Taliban to hatch a plot to assassinate President Hamid Karzai. Released by Wikileaks, at least 180 confidential files contained a jumble of previously unknown details about the Afghanistan War. The stream of U.S. military intelligence reports accused Pakistan's spy agency of arming, training and financing the Taliban insurgency since 2004.


An Indispensable Look at America from Newspapers Around the Planet WikiLeaks Memos Say Ex-ISI Chief Plotted Karzai Assassination: Daily Outlook, Afghanistan

if Wikileaks was passing on "lies" it wouldn't be confidential; after all if Intelligence was false. Why are Taliban using American intelligence leaked by Wikileaksto start killing Tribal elders?


You can't have it both ways condemning a source and then using it as if it was legitimate.

DailyTech - Taliban Murders Afghan Elder, Thanks Wikileaks for Revealing "Spies"

The Taliban, a radical Islamic militia in Afghanistan, announced its gratitude to Wikileaks for the release and vowed to hunt down those revealed in the documents to be collaborating with the U.S. It appears that they have now made good on that threat.

why are Taliban thanking Wikileaks if its cables aren't legit?