Chelsea And Politics

[khushal]

The presence of NATO has destabilized the whole region.

[Chelsea-Fan]

Blowing up schools was a typical act of these before NATO or US steped to the stage. Stop creating fantastic stories. What have tanks to do with education? There is no connection between their war against NATO, US or the Zardari government and this!

[khushal]

Blowing up schools was a typical act of these before NATO or US steped to the stage. Stop creating fantastic stories.

Sources?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Blowing up schools was a typical act of these before NATO or US steped to the stage. Stop creating fantastic stories.

Hardly. If anything it exacerbated the problem. Read my post reproduced below. The more you introduce foreign force into the equation the greater the radicalism that will ensue. Iran is a wonderful case study of this. The Iranians were moving toward normalization of relations and electing Khatami until they were jolted to the far right by brazen John Bolten led US interventionalism. The same holds true for these regions. Give the masses a cause celebre and many, even the unreasonable will flock to it. A prime example is the way Sikhs were treated BEFORE and AFTER the invasion. There were cases of beheaded Sikhs POST invasion in the NWFP (whereas the Sikhs clearly felt safer pre invasion under Taliban auspices):

------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...71/index2.html

1) You attempt to state that the whole of the Taliban apparatus is either pure ISI or plaqued by having to rely on ISI. You will have to explain how any legitimate resistance movement, even a secular one, were it to arise, would fight a war without arms. Let us say, for the same of theory, that such a group, made up of Afghans purely in Afghanistan were to arise. Let us go further and say that this group had only Afghan interests at heart. So where do they get arms from in your scenario? Do they take 10 years, learn the art of weapon making... do they get funding and buy arms from Der Adam? What it distills down to is that your answer will be: They need not take up arms... they should participate in the secular Karzai government and accept a constitution that would allow them to eventually realize their goal. You would still have to provide historical evidence of the US ever leaving a country that it accomplished its goals in. To this day, bases exist in Japan and along the Korean DMZ line. Moreover, they are itching to stay in Iraq.

So if you are trying to put people into corners because they utilize arms from outside powers and using "gotcha" logic you just look plain foolish. No wars in the modern era in the third world could ever be fought then and no super power could ever be faced down based on your logic. You need to provide an alterate route through which a legitimate resistance could arm itself.

Moreover, the cross border Pashtun links might very well make it easier for these groups to access Pakistani arms, weapons, etc.

You have to provide evidence, as does Mostafa, that these movements are executing Islamabad's policies. The evidence exists to the contrary:

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...urand_line.htm

In this article, it is stated that the Taliban refused to recognize the Durand line.

So what your rhetoric boils down to is that there is "Us" and "them (Taliban)" and you dont like them because they do not agree with you. Great, glad to see you are open about it... but it wont matter because they could care less about you circular logic and will continue to fight you.

2) You have to prove that the Karzai government or any of the choices you offer are more in harmony and resonate with the rural Pashtun masses than do the Taliban. The evidence is contrary to your thesis. You however have not produced such documentation. I will provide the following for your perusal and let you think about it (this is written by an anti Taliban Afghan historian by the way):

"In reality, the traditional way of life in villages has changed little by Taliban's rule. The situation of Afghans in the countryside controlled by the Taliban has improved because of increased peace and security, giving them the opportunity to rebuild after two decades of war."

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm

3) Regarding people blowing themselves up and utilizing assymetric tactics. Take a look at the Tamil Tigers and the history of other insurgency movements such as the early Chinese independence movements to oust the foreign powers out of China. Dr. Barkawi describes it well:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...424785830.html

"Asymmetric warfare is the result of conflict between the powerful and the powerless, reinforcing a cycle of violence."

These tactics are like the rape victim using her nails to scratch at her attacker. Suicide bombs and the death of Sikhs were rarely happening, if at all prior to the US intervention in Afghanistan.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/mo...ews-for-sikhs/

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/...ertain-future/

You chide the Arabs for utilizing Afghanistan as a base twice for fighting a Jihaad against two superpowers. You forget that there is another side to this equation. The two supers are this other side. What business did they have invading Vietnam, Cambodia, the Istaans, interfering in Iran, Iraq, setting up bases in Saudiyaa?

Your solution, of killing off the users of assymetric dirty tactics is like giving Aspirin to a septic patient with a horrible bacterial infection that really needs antibiotics. It makes no sense and only is a temporary fix (best case scenario)... or worst case scenario, it proves you that you want to deprive the people to their inalienable right to self determination as to what sort of rule the want over themselves.

So from now on, spare me the swan song about Taliban blowing up kids and women and children. Show me a Talib blowing himself up pre US invasion and show me when the rate of such violence escalated. Show me that you understand that western interventionalism and her allies are the septic nidus.

[Chelsea-Fan]

Abdali, you compare potatoes with apples! You guys in Afghanistan thought you were smart and we showed you how smart you are. Even today, you are ruled by foreigners. Come on, you see your scenario for others but not for yourself? Look into a mirror if you can not. We Pakistanis are maybe not like Germans but at least we have some good heads, including the so-called ''Islamic Bomb''. No matter who we are. We stand over Afghanistan. Smarter than Afghanistan. I told you once. DO NOT CARE ABOUT OTHERS. CARE ABOUT YOURSELF. ALL OTHERS IN THIS WORLD ARE WINNERS AND ONLY YOU ARE THE LOSERS AND IF YOU STAY ON THAT PATH YOU WILL TAKE THE ENTIRE PAKHTUN NATION IN PAKISTAN TO THIS PATH, TOO! Did other nations and people and their history, names, money, languages offered you anything? Get educated instead spreading non-sense through your nationalist vains. It would be better, otherwise you will be the losers again. It make me sad to accept that Pakhtuns are lost in Afghanistan because of some stupid and criminal groups who want to drink the blood of us by serving foreigners. When will you realize that those foreigners do not fight or support for your goals but for their own?

[Chelsea-Fan]

Durandline is not the issue here. By bringing sucha nonsens here you discredit yourself. What have burning schools to do with Durand Line?

[unknownprince]

Nope not the entire world. You have been already caught in your deception in your other thread. Your Kabulzada
http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...08/index3.html



See I told you that your a Sick Tajik nationalist. When you are talking about Afghans, you say "WE" and "OURSELF" and "OWN". If you were Pakistani you would not use such words and also if you were Pakistani your English and spelling would be a lot better, your English and your spelling sucks.
It is you who is a hypocrite and a coward like your hero Masood.
Ex-Soviet commander unveil Masoud's secret pact

It is you who is backwards and sell yourself just like your hero who sold himself and his people to the CIA, The ISI, Iran, India, Soviets until there was no buyer.
You have your head up your *ss so deep that its pathetic, you dont even think before you type.

One day he is defending Masood, and then he calls himself a Pakistani.

Now, even a Pakistani like Luffy would not support Masood.


LOL LOL LOL

\hahahaha

[unknownprince]

Hardly. If anything it exacerbated the problem. Read my post reproduced below. The more you introduce foreign force into the equation the greater the radicalism that will ensue. Iran is a wonderful case study of this. The Iranians were moving toward normalization of relations and electing Khatami until they were jolted to the far right by brazen John Bolten led US interventionalism. The same holds true for these regions. Give the masses a cause celebre and many, even the unreasonable will flock to it. A prime example is the way Sikhs were treated BEFORE and AFTER the invasion. There were cases of beheaded Sikhs POST invasion in the NWFP (whereas the Sikhs clearly felt safer pre invasion under Taliban auspices):

------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...71/index2.html

1) You attempt to state that the whole of the Taliban apparatus is either pure ISI or plaqued by having to rely on ISI. You will have to explain how any legitimate resistance movement, even a secular one, were it to arise, would fight a war without arms. Let us say, for the same of theory, that such a group, made up of Afghans purely in Afghanistan were to arise. Let us go further and say that this group had only Afghan interests at heart. So where do they get arms from in your scenario? Do they take 10 years, learn the art of weapon making... do they get funding and buy arms from Der Adam? What it distills down to is that your answer will be: They need not take up arms... they should participate in the secular Karzai government and accept a constitution that would allow them to eventually realize their goal. You would still have to provide historical evidence of the US ever leaving a country that it accomplished its goals in. To this day, bases exist in Japan and along the Korean DMZ line. Moreover, they are itching to stay in Iraq.

So if you are trying to put people into corners because they utilize arms from outside powers and using "gotcha" logic you just look plain foolish. No wars in the modern era in the third world could ever be fought then and no super power could ever be faced down based on your logic. You need to provide an alterate route through which a legitimate resistance could arm itself.

Moreover, the cross border Pashtun links might very well make it easier for these groups to access Pakistani arms, weapons, etc.

You have to provide evidence, as does Mostafa, that these movements are executing Islamabad's policies. The evidence exists to the contrary:

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...urand_line.htm

In this article, it is stated that the Taliban refused to recognize the Durand line.

So what your rhetoric boils down to is that there is "Us" and "them (Taliban)" and you dont like them because they do not agree with you. Great, glad to see you are open about it... but it wont matter because they could care less about you circular logic and will continue to fight you.

2) You have to prove that the Karzai government or any of the choices you offer are more in harmony and resonate with the rural Pashtun masses than do the Taliban. The evidence is contrary to your thesis. You however have not produced such documentation. I will provide the following for your perusal and let you think about it (this is written by an anti Taliban Afghan historian by the way):

"In reality, the traditional way of life in villages has changed little by Taliban's rule. The situation of Afghans in the countryside controlled by the Taliban has improved because of increased peace and security, giving them the opportunity to rebuild after two decades of war."

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm

3) Regarding people blowing themselves up and utilizing assymetric tactics. Take a look at the Tamil Tigers and the history of other insurgency movements such as the early Chinese independence movements to oust the foreign powers out of China. Dr. Barkawi describes it well:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...424785830.html

"Asymmetric warfare is the result of conflict between the powerful and the powerless, reinforcing a cycle of violence."

These tactics are like the rape victim using her nails to scratch at her attacker. Suicide bombs and the death of Sikhs were rarely happening, if at all prior to the US intervention in Afghanistan.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/mo...ews-for-sikhs/

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/...ertain-future/

You chide the Arabs for utilizing Afghanistan as a base twice for fighting a Jihaad against two superpowers. You forget that there is another side to this equation. The two supers are this other side. What business did they have invading Vietnam, Cambodia, the Istaans, interfering in Iran, Iraq, setting up bases in Saudiyaa?

Your solution, of killing off the users of assymetric dirty tactics is like giving Aspirin to a septic patient with a horrible bacterial infection that really needs antibiotics. It makes no sense and only is a temporary fix (best case scenario)... or worst case scenario, it proves you that you want to deprive the people to their inalienable right to self determination as to what sort of rule the want over themselves.

So from now on, spare me the swan song about Taliban blowing up kids and women and children. Show me a Talib blowing himself up pre US invasion and show me when the rate of such violence escalated. Show me that you understand that western interventionalism and her allies are the septic nidus.

chelsea Tajik nationalist,

address what he said.

[Chelsea-Fan]

LOL, Kabulzada

Don't worry, we are taking our nation back.

Your not Pakistani lol

This was your words 60years ago, 40 years ago and 16years ago. HAVEN´T WE USED YOUR AFGHANI NATIONALISM AGAINST YOUR OWN (BUT YOU HAVE NEVER REALIZED THAT SINCE YOUR HEROES ARE UNEDUCATED SUICIDE BOMBERS WHO DO NOT LIKE ANYTHING GOOD IN LIFE)? You threat our state so we use every option to defend our country. The same thing would you do, too. Taliban did not recognize Durandline and we did not recognized Taliban without accepting our rules. Will you again try to ask for any devision of Pakistan? And YOU will do nothing. YOU live in the WEST begging there those who occupied your country as coward and hypocrite you are and at the same time barking against them. Stay a loser. I tell you again. Try to become a tolerant human-beeing, go for education, a wife, a good life, money, a house, children. Make your personal Jihad in your close neighbourhood and if you think it is not enough than you can do suicide in front of a mass of people.

[Chelsea-Fan]

Suiciders belong to hell, says Islamic scholar

Islamic scholar says suicide bombers will 'go to hell' - Home News, UK - The Independent

Shaikh ul-Qadri is explicit in his condemnation of suicide bombings, kidnappings and the killing of innocents which he describes as ?absolutely against the teachings of Islam?

[unknownprince]

Kabulzada.

Your people are a JOKE. Your afraid. What you fear is already happening. Your families should not have kissed American asss.

they should have had better foresight

[Chelsea-Fan]

Arab boy, to whom are you talking like a crazy man? Where do you live? UK? UK is occupying Afghanistan. Why are you sitting in the west? Coward and hypocrite wannabe man. You Talib rats lost your war. Today, it´s just a war between many neighbours over Afghanistan. You are nothing and will be nothing. Stop crying. Noone will do the job for you, not even your Terrorist Taliban heroes. If you want to acces something you need to come by yourself and take it...otherwise shut up. Your stupidity is the cause that you are no aware of reality. You still think you are the winner LOL You guys are the most ugliest creatures I have seen. Everyone using Pakhtuns against Pakhtuns and you donkey as dumb you are is not able to see it. The foreigners want to create a civil war within Pakhtuns. From Afghanistan to Pakistan!!!! YOU MORON, STAY STUPID AND DIE STUPID!

[Maulik]

Language used here, is completely derogatory. .guyz calm down and have a rational and civilized debate.

[Chelsea-Fan]

Anti-Taliban thread (Unite Pakhtuns and Muslims against these infidels)

Bakhtar News Agency - Armed, Suicide Attacks On 2nd Police District Thwarted In Kabul: Mashal
Monday, August 22, 2011 Kabul (BIA) Afghan security forces in an exclusive operation have captured a group of four planning to launch suicide attack on 2nd police district in Kabul city.
Afghan security forces in an exclusive operation have captured a group of four planning to launch suicide attack on 2nd police district in Kabul city. Briefing the reporters in a news conference on Sunday, Lutfullah Mashal, spokesman of National Directorate of Security, said, “During an exclusive operation, Afghan security forces have captured a group of four led by Obaidullah, a native resident of Shakardara, now living in Peshawar of Pakistan. He has been arrested along with Mohammad Shir, a native resident of Nangarhar, now living in Peshawar of Pakistan, Rozi Mohammad, resident of Kandahar, now in Peshawar and Ghulam Mohammad. They all had planned to carry out suicide attack on 2nd police district in Kabul city on the Independence Day of Afghanistan. They were also involved in carrying out suicide attacks on Kabul City Center and 400 beds of hospital. Mashal also said that a shadow police chief for Khuja Ghar district was arrested along with three of his associates in Takhar province. “Afghan security forces in an operation captured Mullah Hussian, a native resident of Khuja Ghar and a shadowy police chief for the district, along with his three associates named Taj Mohammad, Mohammad Rasool and Mohammad Ishaq, who are residents of Khuja Ghar district, were involved in terrorist acts in outskirts of the district”, Mashal said. Spokesman of National Directorate of Security also informed the reporters of arresting a suicide attacker in Kapisa province, adding Afghan security forces in a separate operation in Kkapisa province detained a 19 year old suicide attacker named Yaseen, who is a resident of Deh Sabz of Kabul and living now in Akorra Khatak of Peshawar, had been sent to Kapisa along with a guider named Hizbullkah, resident of Tagab district, for carrying out suicide attack in the province. Mashal also asserted that Afghan security forces have arrested another suicide attack named Gulab Khan, a native resident of Balkh, along with explosive-laden vest and a quantity of explosives in Balkh province. He added in a separate operation conducted by the security forces in Parwan province concluded in arrested of Mawlavi Noorullah and Hasibullah, who are residents of Parwan province, had planned the suicide attack on Parwan governor building. They were also involved in carrying out other suicide attacks in the province. Related to releasing of the Turkish nationals, the spokesman of NDS said Afghan security forces were able to free two Turkish citizens, who were kidnapped by Taliban insurgents’ in Dasht-e-Lily of Faryab. Mashal further said that two children aged 12 and 12 have been also detained by Afghan security forces in Kandahar and Khost provinces.

...

[Chelsea-Fan]

BBC News - Afghan Nato forces 'kill 35 Pakistan Taliban militants'
Afghan Nato forces 'kill 35 Pakistan Taliban militants'

At least 35 Taliban militants from Pakistan have been killed and several wounded by Nato-led forces inside Afghanistan, officials say.
The militants are said to have crossed over into the Afghan province of Paktia to target coalition forces when they came under attack last week.
Sources in Pakistan's Waziristan tribal region told the BBC that many of those wounded had now been brought back.
Some are said to be receiving medical treatment in the town of Miranshah.
Pakistan has been under severe pressure from the US in recent months to prevent militants based in its tribal regions from crossing into Afghanistan to fight Nato troops based there.
Earlier this month Washington said that it was cutting $800m (£500m) in military aid to Islamabad because of "difficulties" in its relationship with Pakistan.
Dangerous faction Efforts are said to be under way to bring back the bodies of those killed in the latest fighting for burials.




Reports suggest many of the dead and wounded belonged to two leading militant leaders in Waziristan - Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Mullah Nazir.
The BBC's Shahzeb Jillani says that both are known for actively targeting Nato-led forces. He says the deaths appear to be a significant blow to cross-border militants feeding the insurgency inside Afghanistan.
The coalition itself has confirmed the raid, saying it believes the fighters were moved into Afghanistan by the Haqqani group, long regarded by the US as an especially dangerous militant faction based in Waziristan.
There have been previous cases of Pakistani Taliban being killed by Nato, but few incidents are reported.
Correspondents say that the Pakistani army faces a dilemma when pursuing militants in the border areas.
On the one hand it is under pressure from the US and Afghanistan to stop the incursions, but on the other hand it has to be careful to respect Afghan territorial integrity.
Last month Islamabad rejected claims made by Kabul that it had fired more than 450 rockets into Afghan territory over a period of three weeks.
A spokesman told the BBC that a "few accidental rounds" may have landed in Afghanistan as the army battled Taliban militants entrenched in the area.
In recent weeks, Islamabad has also complained of a number of cross-border militant attacks in Pakistan's north-west and has lodged official protests with Kabul over the incursions.
In one incident on 16 June more than 200 militants were said to have stormed a Pakistani village near the Afghan border.

Taliban running out of numbers lol