Swat - Talibans..

[salam]

Army has done more dirt than the so called taliban. the number of extra judicial killing after the operation is more than the killings by the so called taliban... and don't know for how long will it remain ?
We wish the army goes as soon as possible.

[R3SISTANC3]

Exactly I listened to the video before sharing.. They did this even when the operation was started and before that the situation was much worse than this ..

Those who think that Talibans were installed by Pakistan Army should think for a while that if they are the friends of Pakistan Army than why are they killing these people here in the video ..

Read the following, of course you have the right to ignore it like most Pakistani apologists.


Anyone who has read Inside Al Qaeda and the Taliban: Beyond Bin Laden and 9/11 by Saleem Shahzad (Pluto Press 2011) will come to the following conclusions:

1) It is Al Qaeda rather than the Taliban who plan militant attacks in Pakistan and that the Taliban execute no operations without the permission of Al Qaeda; 2) Jihadi organisations are subservient to Al Qaeda at the same time as some are also extensions of the Pakistan Army; 3) TTP was shaped by Al Qaeda through Uzbek warlord Tahir Yuldashev after the 2007 Lal Masjid affair; 4) ‘Retired’ army officers earlier handling proxy jihad defected to Al Qaeda but continued to use contacts within the military on behalf of Al Qaeda; 5) Benazir was killed by Al Qaeda and not Baitullah Mehsud; he was merely an instrument; 6) Mumbai was done by Al Qaeda through former Pakistan Army officers with help from Lashkar-e-Tayba (LeT) without the knowledge of the ISI despite the fact that LeT was on ISI’s leash; 7) Army officers or freedom fighters trained by army for Kashmir jihad spearheaded Al Qaeda’s war against Pakistan Army; 8) Islamic radicalisation of Pakistani society and media mixed with fear of being assassinated by Al Qaeda agents – who include ex-army officers – have tilted the balance of power away from the state of Pakistan to Al Qaeda; 9) Punjabi Taliban are under Haqqani Network which is supposed to be aligned with Pakistan Army; 10) Pakistan Army has ex-officers in Al Qaeda as well as serving officers collaborating with these ex-officers.

Excerpts from Syed Shahzad’s Book on “Al-Qaeda’ « Therearenosunglasses’s Weblog




Troubling narratives

Some time in mid-2009, I had the opportunity to travel to Mardan and meet with IDPs displaced from Swat and other areas in two camps. Without the comfort of their homes, the calm of their fields, or the delight of their cuisine, the restlessness among the IDPs was palpable. Their plight was made worse by the treatment meted out by donor agencies and Jamiat activists – the only ones present and allowed to work at the site: the IDPs had been relegated to second-grade citizens, who should have been grateful for the tents that housed them and the food, poorly cooked as it may have been. But the IDPs were more than just a statistic; in their regular and undisturbed lives, these were people of honour and dignity. In adversity, they had narratives that the media was not being able to report on.

Once we worked through the intense suspicion, convinced them of what our motives were, that we were in no way wired or there to spy on them, a few men opened up. Two narratives stood out: the first revolved around the doings of a major. “A major was stationed in our area,” revealed a resident of Kohat. “On orders from his superiors, he had gotten the locals to organise into companies. These armed units were then to stand guard at night. But the major told us that the Taliban would arrive in the outskirts of the area at night time, perhaps even resort to aerial firing, but would leave. We were told not to return fire,” he said.

“The Taliban did come, not for one day but for a week. We did as the major had asked, but one night, they fired straight at our post. We did not return fire that night. But this continued for two or three nights. One night, tired of taking fire, we retaliated. Two of their men were severely injured. We drove the Taliban out, and then went to capture the injured. Surprisingly, the same major who had formed our company was lying in a pool of blood. He was a Talib.”

Another described how he locked his brother’s dead body inside a room and fled, since there was no time for an “Islamic” funeral. “Our village came under attack from the Taliban. We think some people in the armed forces were involved too. My brother was killed by them. Almost all houses were razed to the ground. I thought that if my house was to be destroyed as well, perhaps my brother will be buried under the rubble,” he said.

Almost two years since that trip, information released to the media claims that people have not only returned home, but also have been helped to rebuild their lives. Except that narratives this time around are not as much about resistance and martyrdom as a result of those battles, but of submissions, of helplessness at the state of affairs, of resilience having been disciplined, of citizens having been relegated to the status of colonised subjects.

“The house of a local malik in Lower Orakzai Agency was attacked by the Taliban. The malik was considered a huge supporter of the army; he would organise reconnaissance and even spying missions for the armed forces. Because of his support, army check posts dotted the hills around our village. But three days ago, his house was attacked by the Taliban with rockets,” a man from Orakzai Agency told me.

“After the attack, the army wallahs came, dragged all the men out of their houses and paraded everyone through the village. They said that the villagers were lying, that it wasn’t the Taliban but locals who had attacked the malik’s house. Everyone is now asking how the malik’s house could have been attacked by men carrying rocket launchers and ammunition despite the check posts. There is a general acceptance that some army officers are supporting the Taliban,” he said.

The narrative from Orakzai Agency is troubling: at a time when bets should be placed on locals to fight militants, they are becoming victims of the “Taliban”. Perhaps, somewhere along the chain of command, orders are not being followed. Or perhaps, the orders are not to kill in the first place. History repeating itself as farce? Check.


The writer is Deputy City Editor, Pakistan Today, Karachi. In Twiiterverse, he goes by @ASYusuf.

Troubling narratives | Pakistan Today | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia

[BarakzaiAbdali]

^ What do you mean by FEW? Tell me did you support all the things done by the militants in Swat? Were you happy with them?

The issue Shabaz is you are not objectively analyzing this from afar. Its too personal to you. Lets talk a moment about revolts, revolutions, and this Swat issue.

There are a thousand theories out there. Pakistanis were convinced by their media that these folks are all Indian paid agents. While there certainly may be some arms that they acquire via Indian or even American largesse, these folks genuinly do have a grip with Pakistani. They would, otherwise, not be willing to die for their cause. The common retort is: they are not willing to die, they send children to die in their stead. This is hogwash, many of them have personally taken part in these battles.

1) Lets look at the personalities and action instigated by folks like Nek Muhammad Ahmadzai, Baitullah Mehsud, and now H. Mehsud. A few key questions arise:

A) These people were present before 2001... in fact we know Ahmadzai took part in operations with the Afghan Taliban and earned his military bones working with them. What made them come out in force post 2001?

B) Who are their foot soldiers and what ethnic group is involved with their operations.

C) Who are generally their targets (or stated targets as asymmetric warfare makes it so that they may hit bystandards while trying to get to their target)?

D) What gripe do they have against Pakistan?

When you break down who these folks are and who they have targeted, it is, generally very similar to methodology of the Afghan Taliban: The Taliban were initially, before the American invasion ardently opposed to the return of the King and the oligarchy that has generally done nothing for Afghanistan and had simply been corrupt plutocrats. They did little to none of the fighting in the Russo Afghan War, yet were the first to be proposed to be installed in power by American in the aftermath of it (hence the lie that America abandoned Afghanistan post the war).

They have targeted the Mian Guls, the Sher Paos, the Arbabs, etc. What does this tell us? It tells us, quiet simply, that your people are not happy with the status quo. A subgroup of them is galvanized by religion and finds it as a way to address rampant inequality corruption and sustained Plutocracy by these aforementioned people. Pakistan, as Graveyard notes, was not an independent creation based on meritocracy. Folks like Kuli Khan Khattak and others were already British installed sardards in the area and these families simply retained power after the British left. To gain familiarity with your area, I read up on the Arbabs of Takaal etc and found out that the current lineage in power was installed by the British and given many benefits in order to keep the Khalil tribe populace in check. Their role was really no different than Ahmad Wali Karzai's role with maintaining the complacency of the tribal confederation members.

Here in this paper, there is an analysis of how revolution in the pashtun, in order to challenge the malik heirarchy, is often instigated by the mullah class. In this situation, because of the corruption and wrongs inflicted on the populace by the Pakistani government and Army, a critical mass stage was reached in which Sufi Muhammad and his crew had a reasonable number of followers:

"The periodic emergence of religious “opportunists” within Pashtun society frequently resulted in open warfare as this pattern of mullah vs.
malik was repeated..."

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...%20Mullahs.pdf

The answer to the question of why these folks gained momentum post 2001 is rather simple and found in this same literature:

"Because of this “tension,” tribal control by the mullah class is generally accepted only during periods of very extreme threats that appear to be damaging Islam, itself.

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...evelopment.pdf

The change, or new threat, in the eyes of the mullahs and the populace to Islam, was non other than the American presence right across the border in Afghanistan. The irony is that this presence is SUSTAINED by Pakistan. This ACTIVATED and further legitimized the presence of these people in SWAT.

How could you not expect the tribal fighters seeping across the border and other Islamists not to get irate when Pakistan simultaneously backs them and also allows clear cut supply lines that feed the NATO efforts of killing them as well?

A rather large contingent of the Pashtun people of Pakistan are not happy with the hegemony of the "khans" like Sherpao that are made, sustained, and branded as "made in Pakistan" by your army.

So basically, you are advocating calling your own people evil and labeling them as extremists when there are a multitude of reasons both within the state of Pakistan and due to nearbye factors, for them to attach themselves to this movement.

The bottom line is that you offer these people no other outlet to oppose your oligarchial elitest controlled, non meritocratic state. Their response is the only system that they know that is the closest to meritocracy, the shariah that they hear Umar bin Al Khattab applied that turned meritocratic farm hands like Abdullah ibn Masud into leaders at the expense of the Khans of their day (Abu Sufyaan etc).

Bottom line suggestions:

1) Take a neutrality policy stance to undo the pull/clear the Mullah class has: shut down the NATO supply lines because you are tearing apart the country and instigating civil war with retaining these.

2) Look the other way as the independent FATA tribes continue to do what they have done since time immemorial, which is, whatever they so please. If the Mehsud Maliks and the Wazir maliks end up holding sway or the local Talibs hold sway, let the tribes decide their destiny. Make it explicit to them that you will not help or hinder their way, but that Americans will likely respond with aerial drone escalations. To the naysayers, the Wazir and mehsud tribes were actively involved in the Ghazi Wars called by Amanullah and subsequently by Nadir Shah against the Tajik pertender to the throne that was deposed. They will do whatever they want... the Afghan elite will cry, bitch, moan and complain that Pakistan is not doing enough to "control" their tribal fighters. This simply means that they want Pakistan to kill more of its own religious minded people that oppose their presence and NATOs presence. They really do not matter in the long run.

3) Create a meritocracy in swat and other regions. You can talk all you want about how there are so many opportunities for youngsters and others to get educated. It means nothing when the corrupt head of surgery of Khybar can install his in laws into departments and other physicians and engineers from commoner families are left selling vegetables in the bazaar because someone else got the lucrative position because of who they know.

One option of doing this is Islam. If you are averse to this, at least implement some form of man made justice. If Sherpao is corrupt, deal with him. Although the corrupt hands in the US elite also escape punishment, at least you do get the Bernie Madoffs that end up in jail. The populace has to see some result instead of the biggest thief in history awarded the presidency.

[SWATIAN]

^ What do you mean by FEW? Tell me did you support all the things done by the militants in Swat? Were you happy with them?

Look, You just heard and I saw with my own.I think you or your family members or relatives are in army. thats why you are supporting army.And you will never accept the dirt of these dirty people.So I cannot waste my time with you.But as Salam brother said that wish such an operation start in your area then you will come to know the reality of this brave Laang mars.

[salam]

Look, You just heard and I saw with my own.I think you or your family members or relatives are in army. thats why you are supporting army.And you will never accept the dirt of these dirty people.So I cannot waste my time with you.But as Salam brother said that wish such an operation start in your area then you will come to know the reality of this brave Laang mars.

Brother, they will not understand how hypocrite the army is unless they see it with their own eyes.
Because when you have service men of army in your own family then how can you speak against them ? You see all the things goody goody. The same with the Taliban if you brother or uncle is from Taliban so he will feel everything goody goody.
But the third person can tell you the reality if he is truthful and if he has some conscience.
I myself was the lover of army but after Musharraf regime when I saw their hypocrisy, double games, lies and barbarism then I felt that NO the root cause of all the problems in Pakistan is army and ISI.

[SWATIAN]

Brother, they will not understand how hypocrite the army is unless they see it with their own eyes.
Because when you have service men of army in your own family then how can you speak against them ? You see all the things goody goody. The same with the Taliban if you brother or uncle is from Taliban so he will feel everything goody goody.
But the third person can tell you the reality if he is truthful and if he has some conscience.
I myself was the lover of army but after Musharraf regime when I saw their hypocrisy, double games, lies and barbarism then I felt that NO the root cause of all the problems in Pakistan is army and ISI.

1000 % truly said.

[KhyberKhan]

In April (BBC 13 July 2009; AP 30 Sept. 2009) or May 2009 (The New York Times 14 Sept. 2009), the Pakistani army began an offensive against Taliban insurgents in Swat to regain control of the area. Roughly 30,000 Pakistani troops aided by the Pakistani Air Force participated in the fighting (ibid.). Between 1,700 (BBC 13 July 2009) and 2,000 insurgents (Press TV 8 Oct. 2009) and 300 army soldiers were killed (ibid.). The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) reports that none of the Taliban leadership was killed in the offensive (BBC 13 July 2009). During the offensive, the Pakistani authorities imposed a curfew reportedly "creating a major humanitarian crisis for the hundreds of thousands of civilians still trapped in the region" (HRW 26 May 2009). Many Swat residents were left without access to power and water (BBC 13 July 2009; AI 18 Sept. 2009). About two million people fled the Swat valley during the fighting (ibid.; The New York Times 14 Sept. 2009), temporarily settling in districts such as Mardan and Swabi (HRW 26 May 2009).

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4b7cee86c.html

MINGORA, Pakistan — Two months after the Pakistani Army wrested control of the Swat Valley from Taliban militants, a new campaign of fear has taken hold, with scores, perhaps hundreds, of bodies dumped on the streets in what human rights advocates and local residents say is the work of the military.

A senior politician from the region and a former interior minister, Aftab Ahmed Sherpao, said he was worried about the army’s involvement in the killings. “There have been reports of extrajudicial killings by the military that are of concern,” he said. “This will not help bring peace.”


The number of killings suggests that the military is seeking to silence any enthusiasm for the Taliban and to settle accounts for heavy army casualties, said a senior provincial official who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of reprimand by the army.


A sullen, uncertain atmosphere prevails in Mingora, where people interviewed last week in shops, homes and government institutions nervously complained of the arbitrary and unpredictable army rule.


Bodies, some with torture marks and some with limbs tied and a bullet in the neck or head, have been found on the roads of Mingora and in rural areas that were militant strongholds.


Reports on Sept. 1 in two national daily newspapers, Dawn and The News, said the bodies of 251 people had been found dumped in Swat.


The Human Rights Commission, a nongovernmental organization, disputed that all the victims had been killed by civilians, saying last month that there were credible reports of retaliatory killings by the military. It said that witnesses had seen mass graves and that in some cases, the bodies appeared to be those of militants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/wo...ia/15swat.html

[KhyberKhan]

In April (BBC 13 July 2009; AP 30 Sept. 2009) or May 2009 (The New York Times 14 Sept. 2009), the Pakistani army began an offensive against Taliban insurgents in Swat to regain control of the area. Roughly 30,000 Pakistani troops aided by the Pakistani Air Force participated in the fighting (ibid.). Between 1,700 (BBC 13 July 2009) and 2,000 insurgents (Press TV 8 Oct. 2009) and 300 army soldiers were killed (ibid.). The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) reports that none of the Taliban leadership was killed in the offensive (BBC 13 July 2009). During the offensive, the Pakistani authorities imposed a curfew reportedly "creating a major humanitarian crisis for the hundreds of thousands of civilians still trapped in the region" (HRW 26 May 2009). Many Swat residents were left without access to power and water (BBC 13 July 2009; AI 18 Sept. 2009). About two million people fled the Swat valley during the fighting (ibid.; The New York Times 14 Sept. 2009), temporarily settling in districts such as Mardan and Swabi (HRW 26 May 2009).

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4b7cee86c.html

MINGORA, Pakistan — Two months after the Pakistani Army wrested control of the Swat Valley from Taliban militants, a new campaign of fear has taken hold, with scores, perhaps hundreds, of bodies dumped on the streets in what human rights advocates and local residents say is the work of the military.

A senior politician from the region and a former interior minister, Aftab Ahmed Sherpao, said he was worried about the army’s involvement in the killings. “There have been reports of extrajudicial killings by the military that are of concern,” he said. “This will not help bring peace.”


The number of killings suggests that the military is seeking to silence any enthusiasm for the Taliban and to settle accounts for heavy army casualties, said a senior provincial official who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of reprimand by the army.


A sullen, uncertain atmosphere prevails in Mingora, where people interviewed last week in shops, homes and government institutions nervously complained of the arbitrary and unpredictable army rule.


Bodies, some with torture marks and some with limbs tied and a bullet in the neck or head, have been found on the roads of Mingora and in rural areas that were militant strongholds.


Reports on Sept. 1 in two national daily newspapers, Dawn and The News, said the bodies of 251 people had been found dumped in Swat.


The Human Rights Commission, a nongovernmental organization, disputed that all the victims had been killed by civilians, saying last month that there were credible reports of retaliatory killings by the military. It said that witnesses had seen mass graves and that in some cases, the bodies appeared to be those of militants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/wo...ia/15swat.html

[Karachi]

i am not from Swat but when the operation was launched i was against the operation, not because i like the taliban but because the army is the puppet of the US. They launched the operation after the US gave them money, before that army/ISI allowed the taliban to take over Swat and when the money was recieved from US, they launched this operation. What does this tell you about the army/ISI?

There is no dignity/shame what so ever in the army/ISI, they are puppets of US. Just listen to Imran khan what he says about these people, they fight for the US not for pakistanis

[graveyardofempires]

why pukhtane humaliated,tortured,and massacred because they supported a PASHTUN rule.

LOOK HOW IMTIAZ GUL IS NOT HAPPY AND THE REPORTER IS BIASING THE REPORT.
‪Taliban support in Pakistan's Swat Valley - 11 Nov 07‬‏ - YouTube