US-led raid kills 16 Afghan civilians

[unknownprince]

[QUOTE=Mostafa1919;483801]

Please quote me!
My response contained the "Islamic ideology" arguement, TOO, but your reference about Kakar was wrong in that context.

You saying someone is wrong without proving it means nothing. Show your evidence.

The mutation of the Taliban after 2001 is clear and can´t be compared to their behaviour prior to 2001.

What are you even talking about?

I am definitly sure the Taliban didn´t use any kind of suicide bombs in the times of the civil war.

Sure, where is your evidence? Is that all you go by, and you think we should depend on you being SURE. You have NO EVIDENCE while you are presented with plenty of evidence which shows that the Taliban have ample support throughout Afghanistan.

Sources?

He gave you a lot of evidence. The pressure is on you to produce evidence that shows that the Taliban have NO SUPPORT in Afghanistan. Until you do that, your usual statements which lack evidence have no meaning whatsoever.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Yes, since when are degrees neccessary for someone to be a specialist in a field? Their actions and their achievements speak for themselves.

exactly, in other words their theories were only relevant for their societies.

moving on

Oh come on Mahmud jee,
your dad is dead, you grew up with your uncle, your mommy didn´t care.
I know and many other people know you, too.
You are a failure.

I could show you family photos of me with my whole family. The problem here is you think you know about me. When in reality no one knows anything about me. I keep it that way to throw stalkers off my trail.

A witness?
Ibn Battuta?
You only stated that Battuta called Tajiks Afghan, too.
So?
Using a wrong word in a wrong context makes him a witness to what?
Being a fag like you?

yeah moron, guess why he used that word? Because Afghan DID NOT ALWAYS MEAN PASHTUN

which nullifies your premise of the word Afghan being an automatic word for Pashtun.

moving on

Aren´t you the jobless guy who is 24/7 online trying to portray himself as something that he is not?

I mean seriously, grow up before it´s too late.

You should try to find a decent girl in real life. You cannot fool anyone with your online-BS.

yeah we saw how your romance with that "woman of fallen virtue" Mitra went. Please don't give me advice refugee.

I do not need to brag with my achievements. Being an engineer is not something special. Everyone can achieve it if he/she does some hard work. Being online in 1000 forums 24/7 will hinder to achieve that.

I never said you need to brag about your achievements; but you should at least reflect the educational level of your education. I would hope that someone who works in applied science has basic skills of logical consistency. Then again that's probably because it is a farce.

Stop rebranding your family stories of belly dancers and try to mock people.
People know you and your kind! Keep that in mind!

I'm not, I'm exposing your life as a khezlak ashna

And that´s the reason why participate 24/7 on online forums and do not work?
Don´t fool yourself.
You can fool others but not yourself.

I do work......you're creating some imaginary hallucination about me. This is all your own desperation, I don't know the character you have built up in your head. but it is clearly your own coping mechanism.

That´s exactly what belly dancers do.
They are half-time prostitutes and half-time dancers....atleast in your Yemenite circles.

you would know you were raised by them. That's why you're giving the "tree hugging" phony "human rights" garbage about stoning people to death, because you don't want the sleaze rendering hands that raise you to come under the axe.

Actually NO!
The Iranian parlamentarians take an oath on the state and on the religious leadership. Those people have accepted Mohammed as a prophet for some political achievements or they do not state their opinions openly.
No need to lie here.

So those Jewish and Christian parlimentarians are really just fairies that fly around and aren't real.

yeah no reason to lie; just believe delusions and fallacies like Mostafa Mangal

Sorry, a person can´t be a murtad if he didn´t believe in the first place.
Do you get the point?

Oh really because I clearly remember you telling me about fasting during ramadan and praying at the mosque. Stop trying to look cool because being against religion is a Hip Trend in Europe amongst those degenerate farangyan.

Democracy is people power? And if the people want racist laws and if the people want to cut the power of the judiciary system? Is it democracy, too?
Democracies main base is pluralism. Islamic systems lack that.

By definition yes. that is what it is.

pluralism is not necessary for democracy

Democracy | Define Democracy at Dictionary.com

Legal Dictionary

Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: di-'mä-kr&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -cies
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2 : a political unit that has a democratic government — dem·o·crat·ic /"de-m&-'kra-tik/ adjective — dem·o·crat·i·cal·ly adverb
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

If you're talking pluralism in the absolute sense; no country has pluralism in the absolute sense. I'm sure you'd ban Latif Pedram's legalist party as this threatens the interests of your nation. Similarly Islam's pluralism is only to the degree which is practical and necessary for the functioning of society; no society would allow something which would harm it's society to pervade and perpetuate itself. That would be self destructive.

and you were calling me naive? You epitomize naivety if you believe societies can function being absolutely plural.

Conservative Muslims clash with secularists in Tunisia - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

That´s democracy as you promote?

secularists were the stooges of the Ben Ali regime or they're left overs from the imperialist french cultural and social fragmentation that they manufactured by their imperialist presence. That doesn't really discredit Islamists it discredits the secularists.

As far as we all here can see, your obsession with Ghanzarya is obvious.
The molestation by your uncle seem to have left many scars on your poor soul.

was Ghanzarya you ex boyfriend is that why you keep moping about his picture? Bad memories ..bad break up? Go talk to one of your German -homo friendly buddies. Europeans love queerdom.

Said they guy who sits 24/7 behind his computer in the US and has no relations to Afghanistan whatsoever.
Listen, tawalat-ul hemar, do you know your place in Afghanistan?
In most parts it would be 6-feet under.

Says the Agnostic Murtad who would be hung in a public square if he said he rejects Islam and wants to change Pashtunwalis moral code about killing of loose and immoral individuals.

yeah that will go over really well with the Mangals lol

You may as well be Latif Pedram's son. who knows ...probably are.

A proto Pashto existed, that´s a well know fact. Source are mentioned above.
Your Arab-Camel theory that made Pashtuns evolve with an eastern-Aryan language and un-islamic traditions from a semitic language family and arabic culture has no proof. It´s your jerking-of-the-mind with no proof.

Then why aren't you showing any references that confirm this fact and show literary evidence of its existence

I'm willing to change views if you show evidence. ...so far all you have is

Lorenz making some vague statement about "Middle Pashto" ..not even placing a date ...and you tried to syllogistically use that to prove Pashto is from the 6th century because Lorenz said " middle Pashto", circular reasoning at its worst. which is what is called Non-Sequitur (meaning it does not follow that Middle Pashto means the 6th century).The only person who can't see the logical inconsistency of your argument is you.

Even then you won't actually show the reference itself; just some citation from Wikipedia.


If it is common fact Proto Pashto existed, why can't you provide quotes from references that have UP TO DATE research (not Morgenstierne's statements from the 1960's which were falsified by more up to date information)

Pashtuns adopted Islam.
Your claims are unproven idiotic claims by a jobless psychopath who cannot live with his past. Pashto has no linguistic connection to the lingua franca of islam, Arabic, and Pashtun culture has no connection to your belly dancer mom´s heritage.

No Soghdians, Yaghnobis , Turks, Scythians and other groups adopted Islam, then they came together, their languages changed by adopting one of their dialects and from there they evolved into Pashtuns. This theory is supported by the fact Pashtuns have no concrete reference prior to the 13th century


Pashtuns are simply a hybrid culture/ethnicity. That's why you have Muslim Turks who became Ghilzais , who then joined Mahmoud GHaznvi, who conquered over the Hindu regions and forcefully converted your Hindu ancestors to Islam and you adopted the Turkic name Mangal from us and we married your women and made you Pashtuns.

Your argument that that I'm claiming Pashto is related to Arabic is a red herring and a straw man. Which I constantly clarified to you that this isn't what I am arguing. I am simply saying Pashto as a language, Pashtun as an ethnicity and Pashtunwali emerged after Soghdians, Yaghnobis , Turks etc etc adopted Islam and fused together.

If you can't comprehend that now, then your brain is too damaged for even me to repair.

Stop BS!
Whenever you guy to buy stuff, you pay taxes that fills the warchest of the entity you think you are against. Since you have no job, you do not pay taxes on your income.
Liberation is liberation from every form of slavery.
Your camel-jockey-islamo ideology full of Ikhwan-ul-Gaynayeen theories are not different from any other ideology imposed on people.

Your argument is just a cliche'd fallacy of Taxation/Consumerist interaction.

Globalized capitalist economics has made it that any purchase anywhere even in Afghanistan ultimately pays dividends to revenue of Corporate and State Institutions which have a nexus with each other. Corporations under international State agreement can make up costs over production and hence give revenue to international commerce to the state while sustaining profits. Therefore the taxes paid by income or purchased ultimately all go to the same source. So it wouldn't matter where I live or what I purchase or what my income tax is it all ends up in the same source. So people move or live in these countries because they have been displaced by corruption imposed by global institutions. Not because they are allied with them. That's why you're a refugee in Germany. You're blaming the wrong people and ignoring the real culprit.

if you weren't brainwashed you'd understand this.

True liberation seeks to eliminate all corruption and immorality, which is true slavery. and that is what makes Islam true liberation from your loose morally weak degeneracy you have become enslaved to by Farangyan

Sorry, Sami jan is one of your Deoband leaders.

I'm not a Deobandi, Deobandis are pseudo-traditionalists.

I'm a Mu'tazilah, Muslim Rationalists.

Ikhwan Al Muslimeen are a totally contrary ideology than Deobandism. Ikhwan Al Muslimeen are Muslim Modernists who believe in reopening itjehad and using scientific knowledge. Deobandis see science as a "kafir deception"

Ikhwan Al Muslimeen are derived from Sayyid Jamaluddin Al Afghanis Philosophy on rationalism. In fact Ikhwan al Muslimeen was started by students of Muhmmad 'Abduh who was a student of Sayyid Jamaluddin Al Afghani.

Ikhwan and Deobandis have two totally different agendas. Deobandis aren't trying to have a Khilafah. They just want local Shari'ah states based on traditional Ulama and taqlid (blind following).

Ikhwan want a global Islamic State. Ikhwan are more in line with Mu'tazilah than Deobandis, since both advocate opening itjehad and social reforms for providing relevant technological and modern tools. Mu'tazilah differ in that they reject fundamentals of Sunni 'Aqidah, like believing Qur'an is uncreated.

Your analysis demonstrates that your entire understanding of Islam and Islamic Movements is based on shallow and superficial media propaganda and that you're totally uneducated about the topic and hence you mix up different perspectives and philosophies being the same, simply because they're connected to Islam.

No Mellati has crossed that fags ways so far. He supports your Taliban and your "Ummah"-BS to an extent that he exploits the religious feelings of every single Pashtun across the Durand Line.

really because Mellatis were all over Europe crying for the international community to intervene because the Taliban punished gays. I guess one of their "comrades" were killed in the process. And I'm not even supporting the Taliban, but I certainly don't support gays.

Sami Ul Haq dosn't believing in "Ummah" he's just local Mullah who believes in Stateism. He supports Nation States thus cannot believe in Ummah.

Yeah sure many Mullahs pay lip service to Ummah, but real Khilafah supporters want to abolish Nation States.

He is one of yours, so you fill the ranks of the near enemy.
You know that, Pakistan´s ideology of promoting Islam as a unifying factor while implementing a Punjabi idea of leadership in the shadow.

That would be true if the idea of MODERN Islamic Unity was originally invented by Pakistan, but it was actually invented by Sayyid Jamaluddin Al Afghani, he spear headed that movement.

Pakistan does exploit it, but just because someone exploits a good idea doesnt make it a bad idea. America exploits the word democracy but America is clearly imperial. Doesn't discredit democracy.

Furthermore Pakistan exploits it for the sake of Nation State; which contradicts International Nationless Islamic Khilafah; who their assertion is fraudulent and contradictory.

Hence the Global Islamic Movement has nothing to do with Pakistan. That is just propaganda individuals like you use to divert and confuse people so they can turn against each other, perpetuate divide and rule by Imperialists.

tell us more and expose yourself more.

what else do you want to know? I already exposed how I can make you look like an ignorant bufoon by showing how wrong you are about everything.

you must like humiliation, which I assume is something you acquired by one of those Germn BDSM clubs.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

In fact Pir Sabir's role was so important that when Karzai replicated the crowning event in our ancestoral village, he had the direct discendent of Pir Sabir Shah present and had him wind the turban. The absence of the same figure in the recent crowing of Shah Wali raises questions.

[graveyardofempires]

mostafa knows nothing about US Afghans and our culture.
In Jirgas there is always a Mullah present who will advice according to religion.

Mostafa thinks he can fool us but he is only fooling himself to think Afghans will drop their religion ISLAM.

[MostafaM]

Here is the evidence:

"Although the UN report confirms what Canadian and U.S. military commanders have said for years – that the Taliban kill far more civilians – it also makes clear that Afghans blame foreign forces."

"There’s "a greater perception by the wider Afghan community that the presence of international forces is responsible for higher levels of insecurity, is the cause for greater numbers of civilian casualties regardless of the perpetrator, and that international forces act with impunity," says the report, jointly compiled and published annually by the UN and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

Blaming the U.S.-led foreign troops – after a decade of steadily worsening violence and scaled-up combat – isn’t only the view of ordinary Afghans. "Civilian casualties are a main cause of worsening the relationships between Afghanistan and the U.S.," an enraged Afghan President Hamid Karzai said after American attack helicopters killed nine young boys gathering firewood, the latest in a long series of gruesome mistakes that attract huge attention in and outside of Afghanistan. "People are tired of these things and apologies and condemnations are not healing any pain."

And by the way, I apologise and do not mean to malign your ChemE degree. As a fellow former engineer, I have only the deepest regard for academics. However, you pissed in a bucket at me, and I pissed back for good measure.

Lets keep the discussoin focused on the pertinent data here. Education teaches us to leave behind or shed our backgruond ideologies when interpreting the data. Many family members of mine are irrelgious and some of them actually agree with your ideology. Although I am not a paragon of Islamic or religious virtue, I ascribe to the rigth of Alabamans, Kandaharis, Wana denizens, Iranians, etc to make their mistakes and their own decisions and progress their own societies. What you fail to realize is that blatant attempts to squash or clamp down on religiosity only creates reactionarism and is counter productive. Not admitting the religious fabric to pashtun society is a mobilizer does a huge disservice to our progress as a people and sustains the war.

I actually agree on your last point.
It doesn´t matter what I believe in. When it comes to the choice of the Afghan people, I accept whatever they want.
My point is that Islam as an ideology is not just fruitless but attaches to itself an omnipotence and omnipresence in a sociaty that is not doable.

Islam as a religion of the common people is not something I object.
Deep respect to everyone´s personal believes, it´s not my business.

And the evidence that you brought up is dismissed by all of you if it blames the Taliban for 4/5 of the deaths BUT it is presented as valid if it suits your world view. (Un Reports)

I do not object the content of the report. Of course it is true that people get killed in those actions. But again, it is the aim of any guerilla movement to direct enemy fire on the civilians to make them sympathetic towards the guerilla movement as their saviours. That´s a fact, we cannot deny that.

This arguement doesn´t whitewash American crimes, that´s not my point.

And about your comments regarding ChemEng etc., it doesn´t matter. I do not attach my own ego to debates online and your apology is accepted and I do apologize, too, if I said something inappropiate.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Please quote me!
My response contained the "Islamic ideology" arguement, TOO, but your reference about Kakar was wrong in that context.

The mutation of the Taliban after 2001 is clear and can´t be compared to their behaviour prior to 2001.
I am definitly sure the Taliban didn´t use any kind of suicide bombs in the times of the civil war.



Sources?
The population blames the foreign forces if a Taliban soldier blows himself off? I dont think so.

They may blame the foreigners for being in areas and directing Taliban fire to those areas. But that´s a whole different topic.

Read the citation from the UN report. Quit getting mad at me... its your masters that said it... not Barakzaay. Here, it is reproduced:

"There’s "a greater perception by the wider Afghan community that the presence of international forces is responsible for higher levels of insecurity, is the cause for greater numbers of civilian casualties regardless of the perpetrator, and that international forces act with impunity," says the report, jointly compiled and published annually by the UN and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

Blaming the U.S.-led foreign troops – after a decade of steadily worsening violence and scaled-up combat – isn’t only the view of ordinary Afghans. "Civilian casualties are a main cause of worsening the relationships between Afghanistan and the U.S.," an enraged Afghan President Hamid Karzai said after American attack helicopters killed nine young boys gathering firewood, the latest in a long series of gruesome mistakes that attract huge attention in and outside of Afghanistan. "People are tired of these things and apologies and condemnations are not healing any pain."

"Although the UN report confirms what Canadian and U.S. military commanders have said for years – that the Taliban kill far more civilians – it also makes clear that Afghans blame foreign forces."

Here is the original article by Paul Koring:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ign-forces-as-
civilian-deaths-double/article1934837/</I>

You can get a subscription or I can cut and paste teh whole of it for you. It clearly references the UN report as well.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I actually agree on your last point.
It doesn´t matter what I believe in. When it comes to the choice of the Afghan people, I accept whatever they want.
My point is that Islam as an ideology is not just fruitless but attaches to itself an omnipotence and omnipresence in a sociaty that is not doable.

Islam as a religion of the common people is not something I object.
Deep respect to everyone´s personal believes, it´s not my business.

And the evidence that you brought up is dismissed by all of you if it blames the Taliban for 4/5 of the deaths BUT it is presented as valid if it suits your world view. (Un Reports)

I do not object the content of the report. Of course it is true that people get killed in those actions. But again, it is the aim of any guerilla movement to direct enemy fire on the civilians to make them sympathetic towards the guerilla movement as their saviours. That´s a fact, we cannot deny that.

This arguement doesn´t whitewash American crimes, that´s not my point.

And about your comments regarding ChemEng etc., it doesn´t matter. I do not attach my own ego to debates online and your apology is accepted and I do apologize, too, if I said something inappropiate.

well you're completely wrong if Islam was not a powerful global force or had that capacity and potential none of these wars to try and curb or suppress it would be amounting.


the U.S. and fellow Neo-Imperialists in NATO are trying to either water down Islamic Movements or suppress them precisely because they pose a threat to their Global Hegemonic Power Structure


why arent they doing the same to you Mellatis or Commies? Becuse you're already subservient.

dooooh ......guess who just exposed Mostafa?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Barakzai wrora


Mostafa ignores evidence .....he knows he's lost the debate.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I actually agree on your last point.
It doesn´t matter what I believe in. When it comes to the choice of the Afghan people, I accept whatever they want.
My point is that Islam as an ideology is not just fruitless but attaches to itself an omnipotence and omnipresence in a sociaty that is not doable.

Islam as a religion of the common people is not something I object.
Deep respect to everyone´s personal believes, it´s not my business.

And the evidence that you brought up is dismissed by all of you if it blames the Taliban for 4/5 of the deaths BUT it is presented as valid if it suits your world view. (Un Reports)

I do not object the content of the report. Of course it is true that people get killed in those actions. But again, it is the aim of any guerilla movement to direct enemy fire on the civilians to make them sympathetic towards the guerilla movement as their saviours. That´s a fact, we cannot deny that.

This arguement doesn´t whitewash American crimes, that´s not my point.

And about your comments regarding ChemEng etc., it doesn´t matter. I do not attach my own ego to debates online and your apology is accepted and I do apologize, too, if I said something inappropiate.

No need to apologize, I enjoy the back and forth and wish you success after success. However, I never denied NATOs report or that the Taliban utilization of assymmetric warfare techniques results in greater losses. I also have no doubt that if America were invaded by China tomorrow that the south of the US would light on fire and that asymmetric techniques would be employed... howeve r the populace would always be sympathetic to their own.

Regardless, my view as an outsider is that we ought to completely divest as an emigre population and not encourage interventionalism of any brand. The false specter that everyone raises of "Oh if America does not intervene, then Pakistan will, or Iran will, or etc will" is NO EXCUSE for urging sustained interventionalism. Pakistani Pashtuns have their own cross to bear when it comes to minimizing interventionalism in Afghanistan and I urge them to do exactly that.

Our fathers ran away from the country and did NOT fight for it as Washington, Jefferson, and the other upper middle class to upper class did here in the US. We have no right to impose our ideologies. The ethnic groups of Afghanistan and the factions within the Pashtuns, including the secular factions must be allowed to reach their own resolution not imposed by the outside.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

An excellent article for you Mostafa on Assymetric warfare, by a Cambridge Professor of History. He discusses how when the weak and downtrodden populations employ assymetric techniques, the empires they face answer with absurd ideologies. Many solid historical references are given:

"This cycle in the war of the weak against the strong is an old one. The strong can afford traditions of warfare which prize decisive combat between military forces. They are genuinely shocked and horrified when their opponents find ways to shoot them in the back or massacre their loved ones. Yet the strong somehow do not see the great suffering they inflict, whether through violence or the kinds of mass slow death that capitalism specialises in for those enmeshed in its lower rungs."

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...424785830.html

[Azmal]

My point is that Islam as an ideology is not just fruitless but attaches to itself an omnipotence and omnipresence in a sociaty that is not doable.

Islam as a religion of the common people is not something I object.
Deep respect to everyone´s personal believes, it´s not my business.

And the evidence that you brought up is dismissed by all of you if it blames the Taliban for 4/5 of the deaths BUT it is presented as valid if it suits your world view. (Un Reports)

Well said!
First step is to acknowledge the problem-political Islam is disastrous. Muslims being one conglomerate nation never existed even during the times of the Khalifa rashideen. In fact its this view is exploiting the beautiful name of religion in justification for cultural genocide of Afghans(Pashtons)! Remember Muslims are One Ummah , but Many Ahwad.

[Azmal]

Mostafa,
To make it short, due to busy lives and hectic work—take 30 min break from it all…Just check the murderous culture of these dysfunctional imbeciles butchering one another after the downfall of a leadership…read the history of our region. You will hardly find a time when Muslim were NOT engaged in vindictive violence after yet another tyrant’s downfall! Even in Islamic Spain when the Arabs experienced the heights of their civilization’s riches, each new Caliph had to fight a battle or engage in war in order to take over from a previous leader. Even back then, Muslims showed little mercy towards one another. It is a fact backed by history when Muslim critics accuse them of not knowing how to live peacefully among one another. The odd compassionate king sprinkled across pockets of history just don’t cut it…the west too had to once acknowledge that they had problems, before embarking on ideas that thrusted them on the pages of history as world leaders.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well said!
First step is to acknowledge the problem-political Islam is disastrous and a travesty to Islam not standing Abdul the talking Paki Mule, and his mini-me Zaboomafoo’s verbal diarrhea. Muslims being one conglomerate nation never existed even during the times of the Khalifa rashideen. In fact its this view is exploiting the beautiful name of religion in justification for cultural genocide of Afghans(Pashtons)! Remember Muslims are One Ummah , but Many Ahwad.

He says clearly that he is an AGNOSTIC. What madhaab is that Azmule?

From Mustafa himself, you idiot:

"No, I doubt that this conversation happened.

I DO NOT BELIEVE!"

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...4/index41.html

So congratulations Azmule you grouped yourself with the same group we always told you were in!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

By the way Azmule the Farsiwaan, here is a post that you have yet to reply to:

You know, the ones that generate fake family trees, and turn out to be the descendents of slaves of the Panjab:
"Sardar Zakaria Khan, twenty-first son of Sardar Sultan Muhammad Khan Telai, by a slave "

http://www.royalark.net/Afghanistan/barak12.htm

m. (first) Maryam Begum, Bobo Jahan-i-Qal'a-i-Hazara (d.s.p.), daughter of Sardar Faqir Muhammad Khan, a Barakzai. m. (second) Bibi Walida Jahan (d. March 1915), daughter of Mir Jahandar Shah, Uzbek Mir of Badarkhshan. m. (third) ca. 1865, a daughter of H.H. Amir ul-Muminim Sayyid Amir Muzaffar ud-din 'Abdul Khan Bahadur Sultan, Amir of Bokhara. m. (fourth) 1875, after the birth of her sons, Asal Begum, previously Gulraz Bibi, a former slave-girl from Wakhan and Samarkand. m. (fifth) at Kabul, 22nd November 1880, Bibi Halima, Bobo Jahan-i-Jaghadar Begum (d. at Kabul, 1925), his Chief wife, daughter of Sayyid Mir Atiqu'llah Khan, by his wife, Shams-i-Jahan Begum, eldest daughter of H.H. Amir al-Mumenin, Amir-i-Kabir, Amir Dost Muhammad Khan, Amir of Afghanistan. m. (sixth) before 1882, a daughter of Mir Hakim Khan, Nizam ud-Daula, Mir of Shibarghan. m. (seventh) Safura Begum [Bibi Staro], a Chitrali lady. m. (eighth) Padshah Begum, daughter of a Mazari Sayyid from Balkh. m. (ninth) Bibi Gulraz II, a Kohlabi consort from Gulistani. m. (tenth) Bibi Zahara, a Shighani consort. m. (eleventh) Sajida Begum (d.s.p.), eldest daughter of Mir Muhammad 'Ali Khan Yaftali, of Badakhshan. m. (twelfth) a Kohlabi consort. m. (thirteenth) Bibi Nekadam (d. ca. 1886), a Chitrali consort. m. (thirteenth) a daughter of Muhammad Husain Khan Ming, of Maimana.

[Azmal]

Its not just the creation of Mujahdeen—(According to national security advisor Brzezinski, the CIA's intervention in Afghanistan throw their proxies Pakistan precedes the 1979 Soviet invasion.) CIA paying Imam Khomayni monthly allowances while he was in exile, creation of Hamas by Zionist region, pro-islamist view of Zionists scholars like Bernard Lewis in 50s to 80s and even the conference in 50s here in US where founder of Islamic brotherhood had attended…not even creation of “Islamic” Pakistan based on narrow minded and radical “two nation theory” which uphold religion as base for identity. Even in 19th century… our own good Syed Afghani was actively supported by British, creation of DoebandSchool by British Raj…after the 1857 revolt. Role of Lawrence of Arabia in cereation of Suadi under supervision of Wahabism.
The fact is political Islam is not only reactionary on certain questions…notably concerning the status of women… and perhaps even responsible for fanatic excesses directed against non-Muslim citizens…such as the Copts in Egypt, Hindus, Christian, Ahmadis in Pakistan and even among each other Shia vs Suni—oppression of Sunis in Wolayat e Faqi—Iran and Shia in Wahabi Suadi Arabia—it is fundamentally reactionary and therefore obviously cannot participate in the progress of peoples liberation!

There are a few good books that talk in detial..Devil,s Game : Robert Dreyfuss