Questions about Afghanistan and Pashtun affairs

[شمله ور خراساني]

Are you telling us that Jewish Secularist Zionists didnt ship your mujahideen weapons with agreement with charlie wilson, and you speak about traitors and infidels, what about Hamid gul,col imam and general aslam baig, those were the fore running supporters of the Taliban movement , not one of them was a pashtun nor a Afghan.

Dont be so biased Sangar Sahib, Your Haqqanis are very much loved by the ISI, not just this, As if the ISI doesnt know where your Talib commanders are hiding.

Even though under soviet laws, Afghanistan had schools,hospitals, infrastructure, Universities and a progressive govenrment, show me what taliban brought to the Afghan Nation besides taming the same warlords it once fought with to break down the Afghan Government with US and Israeli and Pakistani support and assistance.

Dont you get into your brain, Taliban rule was temproary, Speak about Shias, a big socialist Shia by the name of Benazir Bhutto also supported the taliban through ISI.

Oh w8, i guess according to your wahabi CIA/Saudi Beleifs, you can accept help and arms from a kaffir to kill a kaffir.

Kind Regards

Kind Regards

You are talking nonsense again. A Muslim is allowed to receive help from the kufaar to fight kufaar. So there is no blame on Afghans for accepting help from kufaar to defend themselves against communists. And what ever you say about anyone here on the forum. It does not change the fact that the people you are insulting and calling names and accusing of everything are right now on the frontline defending their country. So keep on yapping. Nobody cares what you have to say.

[pir_Rokhan]

Sangar

You are confusing two different things.

I do not advocate the corruption of any group irrespective of their religion or philosophy of life.

Allow me to consider the litmus test of the progress , properity, political soverignty, economic well being, GDP, Per capital income, No of Educational institutions of repute, Enterprises of weightage etc to measure the success of a people/group/nation.

We see that whether you consider a country or region or city or village, where ever you have more religeous people you will see that country, region, city or village as BACKWARD while the more the entity is secular [tolerant for other religions and having segregated religeous and worldly insitutions] the more progressive and prosperous it will be in terms of the indicators mentioned above.

Have we noticed that :

1) If all the universities of all the muslims countries combined do not exceed only those which are in Tokyo so there is somethign wrong at the bottom.

2) If majority of the muslim state have monarchy and people are leading oppressed lives while the so called royal families [the ruling junta] are leading ultra luxurious life then it should ring the bells in our ears.

3) If we do not see any figures of int'l rappot in research,development, intellegentsia, creativity,innovation then we need to think about it.

4) If we prefer to live abraod while passing judgements about the faith of the poor and backward people who dont find a bread to feed their hungry children in Afghanistan then we need to prioritise our dichotomic standards.

I do not say that the existing Pashtun or Afghan leader are angels however I am dead sure that they are much better than those mullas who are neither sons of the soil, nor own the land and history and ofcourse neither are they caring practically about the life hereafter as everybody knows the amount of dollars they are ready to sell their faith, dignity, self respect and a lot more.

Let me conclude therefore that we should realise:

1) that Afghanistan is a 30 years war struck country, which is in the interim period of going from an emergency state to a regular stable republic and it cannot have angels to take care of it

2) that we are surrounded by enemies who believe in the same creeds as we do but are desperate to make us their client state and

3) that the geo strategic situation of Afghanistan is such that no peace is possible if Afghanistan is unstable and

4) that last but not least we need to think about the future of our generations to come

I recommend that we need to be positively critical of any Afghan govt but at the same time should fight against the enemies of our state and not the disbelivers of our creed as the former is more important and the latter is of academic importance and a slow and evolutionary process and something related to the winning the HEARTS and MINDS of people instead of threatening them and hence paving the way for endangering the stability of Afghanistan.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar

You are confusing two different things.

I do not advocate the corruption of any group irrespective of their religion or philosophy of life.

Allow me to consider the litmus test of the progress , properity, political soverignty, economic well being, GDP, Per capital income, No of Educational institutions of repute, Enterprises of weightage etc to measure the success of a people/group/nation.

We see that whether you consider a country or region or city or village, where ever you have more religeous people you will see that country, region, city or village as BACKWARD while the more the entity is secular [tolerant for other religions and having segregated religeous and worldly insitutions] the more progressive and prosperous it will be in terms of the indicators mentioned above.

Have we noticed that :

1) If all the universities of all the muslims countries combined do not exceed only those which are in Tokyo so there is somethign wrong at the bottom.

2) If majority of the muslim state have monarchy and people are leading oppressed lives while the so called royal families [the ruling junta] are leading ultra luxurious life then it should ring the bells in our ears.

3) If we do not see any figures of int'l rappot in research,development, intellegentsia, creativity,innovation then we need to think about it.

4) If we prefer to live abraod while passing judgements about the faith of the poor and backward people who dont find a bread to feed their hungry children in Afghanistan then we need to prioritise our dichotomic standards.

I do not say that the existing Pashtun or Afghan leader are angels however I am dead sure that they are much better than those mullas who are neither sons of the soil, nor own the land and history and ofcourse neither are they caring practically about the life hereafter as everybody knows the amount of dollars they are ready to sell their faith, dignity, self respect and a lot more.

Let me conclude therefore that we should realise:

1) that Afghanistan is a 30 years war struck country, which is in the interim period of going from an emergency state to a regular stable republic and it cannot have angels to take care of it

2) that we are surrounded by enemies who believe in the same creeds as we do but are desperate to make us their client state and

3) that the geo strategic situation of Afghanistan is such that no peace is possible if Afghanistan is unstable and

4) that last but not least we need to think about the future of our generations to come

I recommend that we need to be positively critical of any Afghan govt but at the same time should fight against the enemies of our state and not the disbelivers of our creed as the former is more important and the latter is of academic importance and a slow and evolutionary process and something related to the winning the HEARTS and MINDS of people instead of threatening them and hence paving the way for endangering the stability of Afghanistan.

The litmus test you propose is based on a worldview for a particular group I have described in detail in a discussion I try to have with osho to talk some sense to him. But unfortunately, I failed miserably.


Pira, You see, I am a student of Social Science. And you have to do a better job convincing me that religion has a causal relationship with backwardness and that secularism has a causal relationship with progress and development and economic prosperity.


This is merely an assumption of someone with a limited world view. And lack of understanding of historic events that caused some regions of the world to develop much faster while others remained in a stationary mode and in some cases even started to decline to even worse conditions.


The rise and fall of societies is a subject of studies conducted by scientists around the world. And in any decent academic library, you could find plenty of literature about this particular field of study.


In order for you to come here and try to sell your argument against religion wrapped up in a worldview I do not share with you, you are not achieving much.


I suggest we should get over the useless and childish bickering and accusations and personal attacks and start having a serious discussion about these matters as academics.


For a number of years, before I became religious, I've studied books in various scientific disciplines such as anthropology, cultural anthropology, paleontology, geography, history of various ages and recently, sociology, political science and psychology.


Based on the information I have gathered, I have come to the conclusion that a self-destructive culture which prevents societies from progress and development must have certain elements.


Those are: irrational beliefs and extraordinary devotion and obedience to certain political figures such as kings and clergymen. Self destructive rituals and investment of large quantities of commodities and capital in useless customs and traditions.


The best case or scenario that explains fall and decline of a society is the case of Easter Island described by Jared Diamond in his book “ Collapse”. I suggest you read Collapse and particularly focus on his analysis of the reason why Easter Island was such a big failure.


Japan is a society where people still believe that they descend from sun god and that their royal family is still heirs of the sun god. Yet it is at the forefront of progress and development. While Cuba is a secular nation for the past 60 years, and yet they remain getting their income primarily from rolling cigars and pimping their women.


I have lived in former Soveit Union, before and after the fall of Communism, I've spent over 16 years in liberal secular democracies in Western Europe. Aside from personal experience I've read quite allot about sociological research explaining the widespread discontent and public sensitivies in these modern societies.


The fact is, that these secular societies are bound to fail. They have had their best time. And they are in a gradual process of decline. Many authors have written extensively describing the decline of secular liberal democracies.


There is no way you could convince a student of social sciences that secularism is the reason why these societies progress. The moral corruption and gradual economic decline cannot be saved by denouncing religion.


Yet, the study of the development of these modern advanced and prosperous societies reveal the stark contrast with our own recent history. While Western Europe experienced rapid progress during the colonial era and industrial revolution, we are too busy fighting for independence. We have failed to capitalize during the era when others have made great steps forward. Ever since, the balance of power and progress has turned against us. Therefore, we have failed to progress and develop ourselves.


For you to blame religion for this, it only reveals your lack of understanding of historic events and their significance to the structure of our current societies.


The colonial era was primarily caused by lack of leadership in our societies. Our leaders failed us then and ever since, due to foreign aggression and interventions, we have failed to make a fist against foreigners and therefore, we are divided and weak.


If we want to change our current situation, the first step for us to take is to regain political sovereignty. We need strong leadership and a strong executive power to impose certain changes from above to restructure our society.


Because this is exactly what changed Western Europe. In a period of turmoil, civil wars, religious wars and constant disputes between various nations of Western Europe, strong leadership was the primarily means of positive change. Figures such as Napoleon, Hitler, Queen Victoria, Willem Van Oranje, Frederick The Great and others were the leaders who have caused destruction and wars. But they did achieve to unify their country under one banner and implement reforms that have structured the modern world.


For a secularist, you should know that Rousseau, Kant, Hobbes, Locke and even Mill were important thinkers who have shaped the modern secular mind. Yet if we study their political theories, most of them have many aspects that overlap many aspects of an Islamic ideal society.


In Islam, we favor rule of law, one official state religion, strong executive power, and powerful professional and efficient institutions. This is what they have realized in Western Europe. They might not have relied on Islamic morals and beliefs to come to such conclusions, but their rationale have made them to realize that their Christianity as it was designed by the Catholic church prevented them from progressing and modernizing themselves. So they relied on rational approaches to develop their society and modernize it.


But our religion does not prevent progress. It does not ban modern science. So it is very sad and unfortunate to see educated people from Islamic backgrounds trying to project the ancient Marxist image of religion which was based on Judaism and Catholicism on Islam.


I often, feel quite sad and desolutioned to see our young men and women trend towards Marxism or to mimick Western Europeans. These people have achieved so much, not by dressing like they dress, or to be perpetual fornicators and alcoholics. They did not progress by allowing one another to worship other than god and to resort to irrational customs and traditions of idol worship and annual self-mutilation ceremonies. They have made progress by having strong and powerful political and executive bodies. They have invested in education and trade and they have devoted themselves to hard work.
But sadly Muslims who come to Europe and see all these fast trains, and buses that arrive on time and run on bio-fuel, they go back home and start telling people to stop going to the mosque and instead visit gatherings where Naghma sings songs and vodka is served and people talk about politics and cuss at religious beliefs and customs of people.


Secularism is a plague like sexually transmitted disease that needs to be fought with most effective weapons. RAND corporation and similar institutions are preaching secularism in our societies so we tolerate Agha Khan Foundations strive to morally corrupt our society with their ToloTV and ArmanFM and Bayat Foundation and its Sufi/Shi'a propaganda TV that preaches self mutilation and pederasty.


We don't need colonists, wether they are Russian communists or American democrats to change our society. We don't need alien ideologies of nationalism and self-praise to progress.


We need our own values and religion and we need development and progress from within. By mimicking the kuffaar we end up like Pakistan. A corrupt society of hypocrites that poses itself as secular and yet Islamic, but in reality it is nothing more than a big nasty brothel. There is irrational polytheistic customs everywhere, there is drugs, alcohol, prostitution and corruption by administrators and state officials.


Any Muslim society that has tried to become secular and to mimic the kuffaar has failed miserably. Nobody succeeds by trying to import success from elsewhere by not changing but just mimicking.


This is why I oppose secularism. It is stupid, irrational and will not achieve anything positive.

[pir_Rokhan]

Pira, You see, I am a student of Social Science. And you have to do a better job convincing me that religion has a causal relationship with backwardness and that secularism has a causal relationship with progress and development and economic prosperity.

It is a practical reality and even if I prove otherwise [that religion has no causal relationship with backwardness] how would we deceive ourselves just by verbosity. I would say that if religion has no causal relationship atleast the interpretation of religion for sure has because, think for a while, if it has no relation then atleast one Muslim nation or group would have better statistics regarding the indicators. How more than 1 billion people consisting of various nations and races and states are wrong in their understanding. One nation, two nations, one country, another country, one continent, another continent, one race, another race could be wrong hence backward. But where ever you see Muslims its just backwardness and nothing else.

In the second thing I agree with you. Secularism, which you by mistake consider as " KUFAR" or "SHIRK", has no causality with progress. It is an indicator and an effect of progress not a cause of it. In my opinion secularism, democracy, rights, institutiions, liberty etc are the products and fruits of INDUSTRIALISATION.

Based on the information I have gathered, I have come to the conclusion that a self-destructive culture which prevents societies from progress and development must have certain elements.

Those are:
Irrational beliefs and extraordinary devotion and obedience to certain political figures such as kings and clergymen.
Self destructive rituals and
Investment of large quantities of commodities and capital in useless customs and traditions.

In my opinion the reason for survival and progress is being useful and contribution to humanity. Any nation which is useful and contributes to humanity will progress, whatever it believes in on individual level as long as their individual beliefs do not mingle with their collective life/system and business of the state.

Japan is a society where people still believe that they descend from sun god and that their royal family is still heirs of the sun god. Yet it is at the forefront of progress and development. While Cuba is a secular nation for the past 60 years, and yet they remain getting their income primarily from rolling cigars and pimping their women.

The beliefs of Japanese do not affect the socio-politico-economic system they have hence they are a developed nation even after being devastated by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The fact is, that these secular societies are bound to fail. They have had their best time. And they are in a gradual process of decline. Many authors have written extensively describing the decline of secular liberal democracies.

First this is just a dream of all those who do not have the balls and the brains to match these societies. I dont say they are perfect but the fact that you opted to live in these countries and still do live proves atleast on your part, and you are an educated and conscious person I assume, that there is much good in them as compared to any other islamic country.

Secondly if they have flaws, as they do have for sure, it does not by any means prove that we have something better to offer or we are better than them. If one thinks this then one is not a realist.

There is no way you could convince a student of social sciences that secularism is the reason why these societies progress. The moral corruption and gradual economic decline cannot be saved by denouncing religion.

I believe that secularism in a society is the effect and result of progress not the cause of it. There is no need to denounce religion, as long as it is a private affair and does not interfere into the affairs of the state. Moral corruption and economic decline as nothing to do with religion. Both depend upon the knowledge of science and technology or lack of it.

Yet, the study of the development of these modern advanced and prosperous societies reveal the stark contrast with our own recent history. While Western Europe experienced rapid progress during the colonial era and industrial revolution, we are too busy fighting for independence. We have failed to capitalize during the era when others have made great steps forward. Ever since, the balance of power and progress has turned against us. Therefore, we have failed to progress and develop ourselves.

I do not consider anything as progress if it lacks the "fifth element" - FREEDOM. Progress at the cost of freedom is no progress.

For you to blame religion for this, it only reveals your lack of understanding of historic events and their significance to the structure of our current societies.

I don’t blame religion but its interpretation by its believers which gives the wrong and unrealistic impression to a person that there is no truth except what the person believes in and secondly that the person's interpretation should be imposed on the whole state and its system.

The colonial era was primarily caused by lack of leadership in our societies. Our leaders failed us then and ever since, due to foreign aggression and interventions, we have failed to make a fist against foreigners and therefore, we are divided and weak.

Even the one which we had were labeled as heretic, infidels and KUFFAR hence we are to blame ourselves. However the lack of leadership is not only limited to Afghans. I think our geography has a bug in it and the geostrategic position of Afghanistan has not left us to have a sigh of relief would agree in principle that if our leaders had paid attention to our national interests and encouraged science and technology which has always been the trigger for change then we would have been in better shape.

If we want to change our current situation, the first step for us to take is to regain political sovereignty. We need strong leadership and a strong executive power to impose certain changes from above to restructure our society.

The amount of political sovereignty is proportional to the technological level. Because as any student of social science knows political sovereignty without economic independence is impossible. Hence we need economic independence for which we need to transform our tribal cum agrarian society to Industrial and mechanized society which in turn will give us economic power and hence political sovereignty.

For a secularist, you should know that Rousseau, Kant, Hobbes, Locke and even Mill were important thinkers who have shaped the modern secular mind. Yet if we study their political theories, most of them have many aspects that overlap many aspects of an Islamic ideal society. In Islam, we favor rule of law, one official state religion, strong executive power, and powerful professional and efficient institutions. This is what they have realized in Western Europe. They might not have relied on Islamic morals and beliefs to come to such conclusions, but their rationale have made them to realize that their Christianity as it was designed by the Catholic Church prevented them from progressing and modernizing themselves. So they relied on rational approaches to develop their society and modernize it. But our religion does not prevent progress. It does not ban modern science. So it is very sad and unfortunate to see educated people from Islamic backgrounds trying to project the ancient Marxist image of religion which was based on Judaism and Catholicism on Islam.

If you interpret Islam in these terms, I agree with you on this.

I often, feel quite sad and desolutioned to see our young men and women trend towards Marxism or to mimick Western Europeans. These people have achieved so much, not by dressing like they dress, or to be perpetual fornicators and alcoholics. They did not progress by allowing one another to worship other than god and to resort to irrational customs and traditions of idol worship and annual self-mutilation ceremonies. They have made progress by having strong and powerful political and executive bodies. They have invested in education and trade and they have devoted themselves to hard work. But sadly Muslims who come to Europe and see all these fast trains, and buses that arrive on time and run on bio-fuel, they go back home and start telling people to stop going to the mosque and instead visit gatherings where Naghma sings songs and vodka is served and people talk about politics and curs at religious beliefs and customs of people.

I approve of indigenous solution for our culture while extracting wisdom from history and world around us without profiling and labeling or stereotyping anything or anyone.

Secularism is a plague like sexually transmitted disease that needs to be fought with most effective weapons. RAND corporation and similar institutions are preaching secularism in our societies so we tolerate Agha Khan Foundations strive to morally corrupt our society with their Tolo TV and Arman FM and Bayat Foundation and its Sufi/Shi'a propaganda TV that preaches self mutilation and pederasty.

Secularism just means religious tolerance for other points of views of religions and not imposing one's creed on state level. If Agha khanis or RAND corp. or Tolu or others are propagating their point of view and you disagree you refute them using the same level as Quran directs you "wa jadil hum billati hia ahsan" [And debate / challenge their point of view in a proper way]. Passing verdicts or judgments or profiling is not the proper way neither socially nor religiously.

We don't need colonists, whether they are Russian communists or American democrats to change our society. We don't need alien ideologies of nationalism and self-praise to progress.

We may not need communism but we certainly need nationalism. It has been used in the past by Ahmed Shah baba when he unified all the tribes for Afghan nation and made it strong against our enemies. The same been used in the modern world by all major nation states. Islam is too general an idea for Afghans. Our bitter enemies like Saudis and Punjabis are also Muslims or call them Muslims and are more smarter and educated then Afghans so they would give you a hundred arguments to become their client state and destroy yourself internally while giving you the proofs of their Islamic brotherhood as Col Imam, Hafiz Saeed and Hamid Gul coupled with Zia ul fuk have been doing. Don’t get bitten from the same place twice.

We need our own values and religion and we need development and progress from within. By mimicking the kuffaar we end up like Pakistan. A corrupt society of hypocrites that poses itself as secular and yet Islamic, but in reality it is nothing more than a big nasty brothel. There is irrational polytheistic customs everywhere, there is drugs, alcohol, prostitution and corruption by administrators and state officials. Any Muslim society that has tried to become secular and to mimic the kuffaar has failed miserably. Nobody succeeds by trying to import success from elsewhere by not changing but just mimicking. This is why I oppose secularism. It is stupid, irrational and will not achieve anything positive.

I agree we should have an indigenous solution and we should not mimick.

The solution is to safeguard the national interests of Afghanistan by getting economic independence which is only possible by learning science and technology and hence ensuring our political sovereignty. If we bring about an industrial revolution and urbanization happens as a result of it we will have strong institutions, rule of law and right persons for the right job. Our progress indicators will improve.

There is only one way to put a stop to drugs, corruption, prostitutions, human rights violation, red tapism and other evils and that is to have a technologically advanced society based on our own indigenous cultural solution. Religion will have its due place as a private affair but not as an objective benchmark because state institutions are based on objective empirical benchmarks.

The percentage of drug, alcohol, prostitution, human rights violations is unfortunately much more in MUSLIM countries than non Muslim ones. The bitter reality is that the values which we see in orient are more due to culture and less due to religion.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Well Said Pir. Its impossible to avoid Nationalism, how can we unify our people as one people without Nationalism? You are right to say Saudi and Pakistan will have every single Islamic arugment against our unity. These fantasies of Khalifate ruled by one man and how the muslim world is going to be one state, is just wishful thinking, if Pashtuns themselves are very hard to unify then how will a Arab Sheik remove his borders? Dasay Khalq khoobina Kasee, You have people who will openly accept weapons,money etc from non muslims to kill for non muslims, This we have to strongly avoid and prevent such non sense ideologies from disturbing Pashtun Unity.

Kind Regards

[akbarkhan]

Very well put Sangar Khan.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Akbar lala, What do you think of Karzai?

He spells Karzai as Kharzai. That should say quite allot.

[akbarkhan]

Akbar lala, What do you think of Karzai?

What should I think of a man who bargains his mother? We are the children of Afghanistan, isn't she our mother?

[akbarkhan]

How do you know Sangar? Why does everyone hate Karzai?

I don't know him in person but what I do know is the fact that he is a highly intelligent fellow with sound judgement, an asset to our posterity.

As far as kharzai is concerned please read my previous post on this thread.

[єѕαρχαι]

I spent one hour , reading this whole thread.

i came across two points.

1- you want pakistani pashtuns to fight against panjabis and be a part of afghaistan. but on contrary to that you want to get along with tajiks and talk about afghan nationalism rather than pashtuns.

2-On the other side you support barbaric laws . To keep women inside burqas .
stone people for adultery and lash them . speaking of shariah.(taliban ,saudi , iranian version) all had this crap.

so what good it will do for us ?

[єѕαρχαι]

sharia law in nigeria

YouTube - Sharia Law - Nigeria

just an example.

[akbarkhan]

1- you want pakistani pashtuns to fight against panjabis and be a part of afghaistan. but on contrary to that you want to get along with tajiks and talk about afghan nationalism rather than pashtuns.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as 'Pakistani Pashtuns'. All Pashtuns are Afghans!

Furthermore, wisdom dictates that every good plan has a plan B. The primary plan is the establishment of caliphate, the secondary plan is to establish Loy Afghanistan should plan A fail, Allah forbid.

I don't support any kind of nationalism because nationalism leads to your signature where 'Yousafzai' are apparently 'the bravest and the mightiest' amongst the Pashtuns and every other Pashtun tribe is inferior. Allow me to prove my point, Yousafzai are unheard of, they are the nobodies of Afghan history, Mohammadzai are the bravest hence the ruling class.

2-On the other side you support barbaric laws . To keep women inside burqas .
stone people for adultery and lash them . speaking of shariah.(taliban ,saudi , iranian version) all had this crap.

so what good it will do for us ?

I don't support barbaric laws, I support Islamic laws and if you find those barbaric then so be it, you are entitled to have such opinion.

.

[єѕαρχαι]

First and foremost, there is no such thing as 'Pakistani Pashtuns'. All Pashtuns are Afghans!

Furthermore, wisdom dictates that every good plan has a plan B. The primary plan is the establishment of caliphate, the secondary plan is to establish Loy Afghanistan should plan A fail, Allah forbid.

I don't support any kind of nationalism because nationalism leads to your signature where 'Yousafzai' are apparently 'the bravest and the mightiest' amongst the Pashtuns and every other Pashtun tribe is inferior. Allow me to prove my point, Yousafzai are unheard of, they are the nobodies of Afghan history, Mohammadzai are the bravest hence the ruling class.


I don't support barbaric laws, I support Islamic laws and if you find those barbaric then so be it, you are entitled to have such opinion.

.

abrar prolly not afghanistan , i am not much familiar about the history of yousafzais over there . but they did quite well in pakhtunkhwa.
yousafzais advanced beyond thats why you can find them even in india.
General bakht khan (1857)
the founders of khilafah movement.
jan sher khan ( the best squash player ever )
jahangir khan
col sher khan (he was awarded by indians , the medal of honor)
ghulam ishaq khan (former president of pakistan)

are just few names in current days.
besides i am not discussing the glorious past when we defeated mughal king akber in swat.

Another point proving myself smart wouldnt prove you ugly .
so give up being narrow minded and try to avoid these personal attacks.

Peace

[akbarkhan]

abrar prolly not afghanistan , i am not much familiar about the history of yousafzais over there . but they did quite well in pakhtunkhwa.
yousafzais advanced beyond thats why you can find them even in india.
General bakht khan (1857)
the founders of khilafah movement.
jan sher khan ( the best squash player ever )
jahangir khan
col sher khan (he was awarded by indians , the medal of honor)
ghulam ishaq khan (former president of pakistan)

are just few names in current days.
besides i am not discussing the glorious past when we defeated mughal king akber in swat.

Another point proving myself smart wouldnt prove you ugly .
so give up being narrow minded and try to avoid these personal attacks.

Peace

It wasn't a personal attack, if you read my post I have clearly said 'let me prove a point'. I said that to instigate you, look how you have pointed everything good just about your own tribe and that is exactly what nationalism boils down to, sheer narcissism.

[єѕαρχαι]

I am not nationalist, but i love my roots.

Everyone has right to be proud of his roots.