what is nationlism?

[akbarkhan]

First of all ,you misunderstood what I said.I meant that in the today's world "every" state including US , has compromised some part of her soveriegnty to the Int'l financial institutions due to the global village and mutually interlinked nature of world community.

Yes you may wish to emancipate Afghanisatn from IMF and World Bank ,but it is not by banking upon O.I.C and Arab League or by preaching seventh century city state economics and politcs to the people of Afghanistan but by making Afghanistan strong using political awareness.

The sacred lands and state are themselves licking the boots of white man.They cannot help you except calling you ajami [which means animal [non vocal] in arabic] and give you some charity. And I prefer death [for them] over such a life [for me].

The fruits of the "rules and regulations" have been reaped by Arabs in the form of their imperialism after making you their begger in language, culture and identity. Now you need to make your own rules and relgulations based on your own earned and learnt knowledge and win a respectable position in history.

What our Islamist or call them pro arab friends are fantasising is just a utopian idea wich neither succeeded at that time fully nor will it ever succeed again.What is gone is gone with the wind. Time moves forward. History canot be replayed. Hence we need to get out of dreams.

Islam was used as a movement for empowring Arabs who were backward and bedoin people far from civilisation and it has done its job. Now instead of nostalgic fantasies you need to make history for your nation with what you have and what you own.

The Afghan shepherd if he understand what is taught in Harvard and Cambridge is good however it is not sufficient.Plato said a slave understands reason but possesses no.

Evidently, Afghanistan is surrounded by ambitious, hostile, and secular regimes who intend to subjugate us politically and financially. I am against pan-Arabism but I yearn for pan-Islamic caliphate. Pan-Islamic caliphate is in our national and regional interest as it will emancipate us from the entanglements of imperial powers and their croonies across our borders. If enough effort is put in Afghanistan has the capacity to position itself as a power broker in the region. This is not a Utopian dream, it is but a reality envisioned by individuals bestowed with wisdom and sound judgement.

Respectable and noble positions in history are not earned through secularism and nihilism, if it did we would have praised the achievements of Mesopotamia, Pompei and Gomorrah. Respectable positions in history can only be earned when a state or nation-state upholds the commandments of Lord simultaneously protecting their national integrity and sovereignty.

Being a Muslim doesn't imply that one is pro-Arab. Infact, Mohammad pbuh has said: I am an Arab but Arabs are not mine. I am not delusional nor do I live in cuckoo land unlike our learned friends who promote eldorados in the name of enlightment and intellectualism. And you are slightly off target in saying that "history can not be replayed", history repeats itself as it has done so since the dawn of human epoch.

We submit ourselves to Almighty, but we will never submit ourselves to men regardless of them being Arabs or Ajams. We accept Islam because it is the truth from our Lord but we will never accept the underhanded designs of nominative Muslims who don't practice what they preach. We call for national solidarity and those who import alien ideologies or the commandments of Lord Almight with a twist will be recompensated for their crimes against used and abused Afghanistan. In gallows do they belong, and inevitably in gallows will they be recompensated for the seeds they have sown.

[akbarkhan]

Handsome

This is your misunderstanding about nationalism.

Nationalism in Politics just means fighting for your rights. The rest of the things associated with it are misunderstandings of people due to lack of study.

Hence Afghan nationalism means fighting for the rights of Afghanistan, its people, land and resources. This is what Moses did for Bani Israel against Pharoah and Mohammad did for Bani Ismael against Quraish.

That is incorrect. If that was the case then the British National Party would be accepted as a respectable political party. If that was correct then Hitler would have been praised by Germans. If that was correct then Mussolini would have been praised and respected by Italians.

You should stop your failed attempts of softening the rough edges of nationalism through the spin of "fighting for your rights".

It is narrated by Abu Daud that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "He is not one of us who calls for `Asabiyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyah or who dies for `Asabiyah."

There is no space for nationalism in Islam, because nationalism leads to narcissism. However, Islam encourages us to love ones country and people for the right reasons and when you love your country/people you will be bound to fight for their rights.

[tor_khan]

Nationalism amongst Pashtoons is natural and it centres around self-determination. It ISN'T unIslamic to resist oppression and the major Pashtoon Nationalist movements from the outset - Faqir of Ipi, Bacha Khan etc. didn't compromise on their Islam.

The Taliban are a different story, because as many commentators point out, Pashtoon emancipation was never at the heart of their agenda. Why would it be, because this was an movement engineered by the Pakistan and the ISI who are opposed to [educated] Pashtoons thinking for themselves.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

That is incorrect. If that was the case then the British National Party would be accepted as a respectable political party. If that was correct then Hitler would have been praised by Germans. If that was correct then Mussolini would have been praised and respected by Italians.

You should stop your failed attempts of softening the rough edges of nationalism through the spin of "fighting for your rights".

It is narrated by Abu Daud that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "He is not one of us who calls for `Asabiyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyah or who dies for `Asabiyah."

There is no space for nationalism in Islam, because nationalism leads to narcissism. However, Islam encourages us to love ones country and people for the right reasons and when you love your country/people you will be bound to fight for their rights.

What has tribalism got to do with fighting for ones right, Iam sure Pashtun Nationalism doesnt preach Tribalism but peaches unity of all tribes.

Also Allah quite clearly stated that he has put us into NATIONS and TRIBEs, what if a People such as Pashtuns want to live under their own NATION, how can this be Anti Islamic, If an oppressor, destroys your identity, uses Islam as his/her source, then wouldnt this be Haraam in a way, as Islam means peace and not a tool to oppress a peoples desire to have control of their land?

Pir Saab, is trying to say that the term Nationalism can be implimented in many ways, Logically, there are Arab scholers who encourage an Islamic state, a Khalifate, whereby eveyrbody will speak Arabic and follow Arab desert debion Culture and customs. This is clear Nationalism but in their so called religionous terms.

I went to Islamic school for three years, I remmeber a Algerian professor, he use to say, that if you speak Arabic, you are automattically Arab, he was pushing his own Nationalism into us, ignoring the fact that we have a identity and a history that is richer than what Arabs are.

[pir_Rokhan]

Evidently, Afghanistan is surrounded by ambitious, hostile, and secular regimes who intend to subjugate us politically and financially.

1) I am against pan-Arabism but I yearn for pan-Islamic caliphate. Pan-Islamic caliphate is in our national and regional interest as it will emancipate us from the entanglements of imperial powers and their croonies across our borders. If enough effort is put in Afghanistan has the capacity to position itself as a power broker in the region. This is not a Utopian dream, it is but a reality envisioned by individuals bestowed with wisdom and sound judgement.

2) Respectable and noble positions in history are not earned through secularism and nihilism, if it did we would have praised the achievements of Mesopotamia, Pompei and Gomorrah. Respectable positions in history can only be earned when a state or nation-state upholds the commandments of Lord simultaneously protecting their national integrity and sovereignty.

3) Being a Muslim doesn't imply that one is pro-Arab. Infact, Mohammad pbuh has said: I am an Arab but Arabs are not mine. I am not delusional nor do I live in cuckoo land unlike our learned friends who promote eldorados in the name of enlightment and intellectualism. And you are slightly off target in saying that "history can not be replayed", history repeats itself as it has done so since the dawn of human epoch.

4) We submit ourselves to Almighty, but we will never submit ourselves to men regardless of them being Arabs or Ajams. We accept Islam because it is the truth from our Lord but we will never accept the underhanded designs of nominative Muslims who don't practice what they preach. We call for national solidarity and those who import alien ideologies or the commandments of Lord Almight with a twist will be recompensated for their crimes against used and abused Afghanistan. In gallows do they belong, and inevitably in gallows will they be recompensated for the seeds they have sown.

Akbar Khana

I wish your arguments were as strong as your communications skills. Please think how can you use some undefined words and assume yourself that you are giving humanity or atleast Afghans the solution they are looking for so earnestly. Pan Arabism,Pan Islamism,Pan Caliphate,Khilafa ala minhajin nubuwa,Islamic system of justice etc are all undefined terms. I do not know what do you have in mind as a framework of a socio-politico-economic system when you use any of these terms.

We have Hizb ut Tahrir version of Khilafat ,we have Al Muhaijiroon system of Caliphate,we have Dr Israr's concept of Khilafa ala minhajin nubuwa the we have Javed Ghamdi system of Khilafa and in the older scholars we have Almawardi's system of Calipahte. Which system are you referring to or do you have another version for Afghanistan. So you see while I do accept your right to propose a system for Afghanistan,my point is these are all vague terms which one talks about after having read in the lectures of some excited and emotional Arabs from Biladush shaam [Syria] without having a critical and serious insight into the issue.

I have no reservation if your wise or otherwise friends bestowed with the pearls of wisdom make Afghanistan a paradise on earth, but my experience of last 20 years of knowing all the think tanks who talk about calipahte or Islamic system, is that they are good orators who have the ability to hypnotise the already emotionally charged youth who have oppressed or sublimed their instinctual desires to following a mirage while the practical reality is far from being realised.

Interestingly since the last so many hundred years none of those whom you present as the wise people with divine wisdom have earned any respectable postion in history either in sciences or arts or in statesmanship and statecraft. Take the recent example of world power share. It is US which has earned a respectable postion in the progress of human thought and science with technology.Formerly it was USSR.In the future it is either China or India.I do not see any of the Muslims state even coming near the defintion of a developed state even if we do accept its version of Islam in any form.On the contrary most of the muslims states the cradle of Islam have been and are monarchies.Ofcourse the only reason behind what ever they have achieved is not theiur faith but the knowledge ,science and technology. Tell me how can we rely on just your immense faith without any objective reality to base our struggle for something which is even not defined and agreed upon within whatever versio of relgion you beleive in leaving alone the spectrum of differences we have across the so called muslim world.

You have all the liberty to submit to God and so should the Afghans but with all due respect to your faith,it is not going to solve our problems except giving you a psychological consolation of justifying a failed attempt once you go for it.We need concrete solution to the concrete problems of Afghans and Afghanistan not being indoctrinated by metaphysical self consoling or people-threatening notions about life and universe.

[akbarkhan]

What has tribalism got to do with fighting for ones right, Iam sure Pashtun Nationalism doesnt preach Tribalism but peaches unity of all tribes.

Also Allah quite clearly stated that he has put us into NATIONS and TRIBEs, what if a People such as Pashtuns want to live under their own NATION, how can this be Anti Islamic, If an oppressor, destroys your identity, uses Islam as his/her source, then wouldnt this be Haraam in a way, as Islam means peace and not a tool to oppress a peoples desire to have control of their land?

Pir Saab, is trying to say that the term Nationalism can be implimented in many ways, Logically, there are Arab scholers who encourage an Islamic state, a Khalifate, whereby eveyrbody will speak Arabic and follow Arab desert debion Culture and customs. This is clear Nationalism but in their so called religionous terms.

I went to Islamic school for three years, I remmeber a Algerian professor, he use to say, that if you speak Arabic, you are automattically Arab, he was pushing his own Nationalism into us, ignoring the fact that we have a identity and a history that is richer than what Arabs are.

Yesterday you said "I oppose being better than others", today you say "we have a identity and a history that is richer than what Arabs are". By stating that you have "richer history than Arabs" is claiming superiority, its abit like Arabs saying "we have richer history than Afghans because the last Prophet was sent to us and not Afghans".

Mohammad pbuh has said: All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.

[pir_Rokhan]

That is incorrect. If that was the case then the British National Party would be accepted as a respectable political party. If that was correct then Hitler would have been praised by Germans. If that was correct then Mussolini would have been praised and respected by Italians.

You should stop your failed attempts of softening the rough edges of nationalism through the spin of "fighting for your rights".

It is narrated by Abu Daud that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "He is not one of us who calls for `Asabiyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyah or who dies for `Asabiyah."

There is no space for nationalism in Islam, because nationalism leads to narcissism. However, Islam encourages us to love ones country and people for the right reasons and when you love your country/people you will be bound to fight for their rights.

You fail to understand the difference between the justification of dictatorship using a racist ideology [Hitler and Mussolini] or the discriminatory approach of BNP from a struggle which is for the rights of a nation against any invasion, imperialism, state of insult or humiliation or exploitation of their resources.

The rest of the interpretations of nationalism are infact your mis interpretation like you misinterpreted the saying of prophet Muhammad [ who meant that you should not fight to invade or conquer or subjugate or enslave another race just for the glorification of your race but rather you should fight for a just cause like putting an end to exploitation or injustice etc.].

[tor_khan]

Yesterday you said "I oppose being better than others", today you say "we have a identity and a history that is richer than what Arabs are". By stating that you have "richer history than Arabs" is claiming superiority, its abit like Arabs saying "we have richer history than Afghans because the last Prophet was sent to us and not Afghans".

Mohammad pbuh has said: All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.

Ask the person who lives in an Arab country. Of course, I believe in Islamic brotherhood - in the spiritual sense. In the actual cultural sense, this is interpreted differently.The reality is that in every society (even in an Islamic one), there are different layers of privilege based on family, tribe, background etc. This is true of today. I needn't point out the difference between the way Europeans are treated to say, South Asians. You will well have heard the stories.

When the Arabs have not been able to unite under a linguistic, cultural, national or Islamic banner (think Palestine), it gets you thinking. The difference amongst Pashtoons, is that we are not spread over the same distance as Arabs and historically, at least, we have a homeland - Afghanistan. With some exception, the calling for unity amongst Pashtoons is stronger than Arabs, because Pashtoons, even the least educated, have long realised that the pressures are both local and foreign and that there are movements to destablise us from all sides. Unless, we we come together under a strong progressive cultural union, linguistic/national banner, then we are as good as finished.

[akbarkhan]

Akbar Khana

I wish your arguments were as strong as your communications skills. Please think how can you use some undefined words and assume yourself that you are giving humanity or atleast Afghans the solution they are looking for so earnestly. Pan Arabism,Pan Islamism,Pan Caliphate,Khilafa ala minhajin nubuwa,Islamic system of justice etc are all undefined terms. I do not know what do you have in mind as a framework of a socio-politico-economic system when you use any of these terms.

We have Hizb ut Tahrir version of Khilafat ,we have Al Muhaijiroon system of Caliphate,we have Dr Israr's concept of Khilafa ala minhajin nubuwa the we have Javed Ghamdi system of Khilafa and in the older scholars we have Almawardi's system of Calipahte. Which system are you referring to or do you have another version for Afghanistan. So you see while I do accept your right to propose a system for Afghanistan,my point is these are all vague terms which one talks about after having read in the lectures of some excited and emotional Arabs from Biladush shaam [Syria] without having a critical and serious insight into the issue.

I have no reservation if your wise or otherwise friends bestowed with the pearls of wisdom make Afghanistan a paradise on earth, but my experience of last 20 years of knowing all the think tanks who talk about calipahte or Islamic system, is that they are good orators who have the ability to hypnotise the already emotionally charged youth who have oppressed or sublimed their instinctual desires to following a mirage while the practical reality is far from being realised.

Interestingly since the last so many hundred years none of those whom you present as the wise people with divine wisdom have earned any respectable postion in history either in sciences or arts or in statesmanship and statecraft. Take the recent example of world power share. It is US which has earned a respectable postion in the progress of human thought and science with technology.Formerly it was USSR.In the future it is either China or India.I do not see any of the Muslims state even coming near the defintion of a developed state even if we do accept its version of Islam in any form.On the contrary most of the muslims states the cradle of Islam have been and are monarchies.Ofcourse the only reason behind what ever they have achieved is not theiur faith but the knowledge ,science and technology. Tell me how can we rely on just your immense faith without any objective reality to base our struggle for something which is even not defined and agreed upon within whatever versio of relgion you beleive in leaving alone the spectrum of differences we have across the so called muslim world.

You have all the liberty to submit to God and so should the Afghans but with all due respect to your faith,it is not going to solve our problems except giving you a psychological consolation of justifying a failed attempt once you go for it.We need concrete solution to the concrete problems of Afghans and Afghanistan not being indoctrinated by metaphysical self consoling or people-threatening notions about life and universe.

I don't subscribe to any of the current march or marsh of caliphate banners. I believe in classic endeavors that brought forward the dawn of Andalus and the era where Afghans reigned over a vast region with fists of iron on oppressors and offering helpful hand to the oppressed - where the Muslim youth were at the forefront of technological and scientific advances as a result of which the world is what it is now. We reminisce and hence struggle for the the coming of such an age. You can mock or mark my words, this age is round the corner and its radiant rays can be witnessed by eyes trained to see the tides of history and the promise of Allah is not like a glass that could be shattered.

I understand the ground realities and the task ahead. I understand that too many have used and abused the name of Islam and I understand that too many have subscribed to Islam without knowing what it is or what it stands for. I am not here to shove faith or political Islam down your throat nor do I have the liberty of time to explain my stance elaborately. But in the trenches of humble counsel I have learnt that in the midst of turmoil and chaos those who offer a helping hand (Pakistan, iran, saudi arabia etc) do so for one or more of the following reasons.

1. National interest.
2. Regional ambitions.
3. Common enemy.
4. Ideological commonalities. (Rare amongst the Ummah)

The statesman who can understand and decipher these four points and the applications thereof will be able to maneuver and turn the table around for Afghanistan without compromising Islam and Muslims.

[akbarkhan]

You fail to understand the difference between the justification of dictatorship using a racist ideology [Hitler and Mussolini] or the discriminatory approach of BNP from a struggle which is for the rights of a nation against any invasion, imperialism, state of insult or humiliation or exploitation of their resources.

The rest of the interpretations of nationalism are infact your mis interpretation like you misinterpreted the saying of prophet Muhammad [ who meant that you should not fight to invade or conquer or subjugate or enslave another race just for the glorification of your race but rather you should fight for a just cause like putting an end to exploitation or injustice etc.].

The right of self-determination is not nationalism, the right of self-determination courses through my veins but I will never allow myself to become a dreadful person - a nationalist. My honoured acquaintance you are trying to amalgamate the right of self-determination with a dose of nationalism creating a recipe for disaster.

I understand that this conversation will not bring any fruits, therefore, we must agree to disagree on this matter.

[akbarkhan]

Thanks to a private message, I think I know what this site is about now.

Best regards,

[Azmatullah]

.

[DaNangarharZuwan]

Akbar you are complaining already? What is wrong with you guys?

discuss the topic like a man. If someone threatened you contact the Admin.

[akbarkhan]

discuss the topic like a man.

Discuss topic like a man? Are you suggesting that I should twist my moustache while I post a comment on a forum?

This scenario reminds me of a little kid who once said "real men use Gmail".

Bro akbarkhan,

You are welcome to participate on this forum, don't let these racists tell you otherwise. You must be aware some you are talking to here are in fact apostates, so they are not going to understand what you are saying.

If the PM was threatening you in any way, i suggest you report it straight to the Admin.

Be assured that I e-smell apostates brother, internet threats and forum threats are absurd.

[afghan]

many of you dont know the diffirences between racism and nationalism. pashtun has never been racist but were always proud nationalist, not speaking of ANP. The great natioanlism of was that they have always welcomed and setteld knowledgable people. comforted them. you guys are looking at the last 30 years of afghanistan and over 200 years occupied pashtunkhwah, where every one is suffering by all means. we are victims ouselves of racism how can we be racist? if we raise our voice against mullahs we become kafir, if we speak the cruel regime of pakist we are blamed to be racist.