Mixed Discussion: Jinnah, Drinking and Creation of Pakistan

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

Refutation of the absurd: Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was not a Muslim



[Quaid Muhammad Ali Jinnah praying with the faithful]


There have been some individuals with ulterior motives who would like to waste the time of many by going into useless debates wasting hours upon hours of precious time.

Such people usually select the weakest and most absurd of accusations to serve:

1) division among brothers both Pakistani and Afghanistani Pushtuns
2) derive gains from this division.

Recently, I was made to feel guilty for having the picture of a man in my avatar. The accusation being:

Your so called founder is not even a Muslim, cause his father's name was Jeenaa, how can a Muslim's name be like that?

OR

He belonged to this and that sect, and we being Hanafis etc etc dont even consider them Muslims.

Here are some quotations and speeches from the same man. His name was Muhammad Ali Jinnah. He liked being called Mohammad Ali.

Deduce from his own words for your own selves what conclusions can be drawn about his:

1) Religious beliefs &
2) His kindness and warm symapthies for Pushtuns.

======================================

Jinnah continued: "Then it seems to me that what I have already said is like throwing water on duck`s back (laughter). When you talk of democracy, I am afraid you have not studied Islam. We learned democracy thirteen centuries ago."

15 July, 1947 press conference.

=======================

“The Khan brothers…have raised another cry that the PCA (Pakistan
Constituent Assembly) will disregard the fundamental principles of the Shari’ah and Qur’anic laws. This, again, is absolutely untrue. More than thirteen centuries have gone by ….. we have not only been proud of our great and Holy Book, the Qur’an, but we have adhered to all these fundamentals all these ages, and now this cry has been raised…[that] we cannot be trusted.??'"

=======================

“I want the Muslims of the Frontier Province clearly to understand that they are Muslims first and Pathans afterwards…".

=======================

According to the Pakistani scholar Ishtiaq Ahmad, there had always been support for the shariah to be found in a few of Jinnah’s pronouncements, as when he promised the Pir of Manki Sharif to enforce the Shariah in exchange for his support for the Muslim League in the 1946 elections.

(Sadly, before he could do realize this vision, being old and suffering from TB, he died soon after the creation of Pakistan. Inna lillah hi wa inna iley hi rajioon)

=======================

Jinnah alluded many times to an Islamic State. For example, in a broadcast address to the people of the United States of America in February 1948 - Jinnah described Pakistan as “the premier Islamic State".

=======================

Mr. Jinnah said: “The Government of Pakistan has no desire whatsoever to interfere in any way with the traditional independence of the Tribal Areas. On the contrary, we feel as a Muslim State [emphasis added], we can always rely on [the] active support and sympathy of the tribes".


31 July, 1947 addressed to the Tribal Areas.

=======================

“In the end, I would appeal to all the different elements in the Frontier Province and in the Tribal Areas to forget past disputes and differences and join hands with the Government of Pakistan in setting up a truly democratic Islamic State.



31 July, 1947 addressed to the Tribal Areas.

=======================

He used similar terminology - referring to Pakistan as a “Muslim State" - in a statement of assurance to the people of Baluchistan.

=======================

“Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles. Our Almighty has taught us that our decisions in the affairs of the state shall be guided by discussion and consultations."


Sibi Darbar in 1948.

=======================

“… Over half a million Jews have already been accommodated in Jerusalem against the wishes of the people.

May I know which country has accommodated them? I have great sympathy for them and have no ill-will against the Jews but the question is that they have entered Palestine with a set motive to re-conquer Jerusalem with the help of British and American forces. I hope the Jews will not succeed in their nefarious designs and I wish Great Britain and America should keep their hands off from there and then I will see how the Jews Conquer Jerusalem. Every man and woman of Muslim world will die before Jews seize Jerusalem. …. And if such exploitation of small nations is to continue even after this bloody war then let us pray to God to send some more destructive force than the atomic bomb to do the work and job of this world.”


delivering a speech at a meeting held under the auspices of Balochistan Muslim League on October 10, 1945.

=======================

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

I guess the only problem people might have is, Rather then having a picture of Kushal khan bigger then Jinnah or Rahman baba, or Ahmad Shah, you have Jinnah.

but that does not matter cause its all about your heart. and from what I have noticed, you are a good man.

Thanx for such kind and nice words as usual from you dear sister.

As for the Avatar, Khushal Baba, Ahmad Shah Baba and so on are my blood ancestors, I have more respect for them than for Quaid i Azam, but the avatar was made to represent how a Pakistani Afghan/Pushtun feels.

Though I am planning on changing it to something that would be more Afghan.

PS: please read what the Quaid said, especially things like his last post about Islam and Jerusalem and the Qibla i awwal.

and lemme know your views.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Khushal khattak showing a picture of jinnah praying supposedly is not proof of his islam. In fact many biographers including stanley woolpert have mentioned his lack of religious practise, and the fact that he indulged in vices like alcohol, pork, etc. Loll the man did not uphold any of the five pillars (four if we want to be charitable and give him the kalima). You are just regurgitating mutaliya e pakistan, that is all. Hec the man was against the khilafa movement, is there anything to be said when he talks about `muslim state`..lol even Saudi considers itself an islamic state.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Wajid Ali a friend of Jinnah once asked him, “Quaid! tell me how you have bamboozled the Musalmans. You enjoy yourself in the evening, you are not a scholar of Urdu, you don’t practice your religion – how do you manage to be their leader? Jinnah replied, ’have I ever told you that I am your leader as a Musalman? I am an advocate, pleading the cause of Musalmans, taking the part of Musalmans, fighting their fight. Nothing more nothing less” (Amulya Ganguli in Asian Age dated June 10, 2005).

this is also in a book by a european historian, when I find it I will link it as well. In that very book the author even mentions Jinnah being regretful for the partition.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Oh and btw your argument is absurd that people who are exposing jinnah are creating divisions between pashtuns. That is like saying a person who calls out the rapist is victimizing the assaulted woman. We have to expose him as his and britain`s idea of a pakistan has led to the ultimate division of lar au bar afghan watan.

Oh and here it is
“According to his doctor,” writes Alex von Tunzelmann in Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire, “Jinnah [in his last days] saw Liaquat [Ali Khan] and told him that Pakistan was ‘the biggest blunder of my life’. Further yet, he declared: ‘If now I get an opportunity, I will go to Delhi and tell Jawaharlal to forget about the follies of the past and become friends again.’”

“There can be no doubt,” writes von Tunzelmann, “that his public championing of the Muslim League’s cause in the House of Commons throughout 1946 and 1947, and of Pakistan’s thereafter, was crucial both to the creation of Pakistan and to the British government’s support for its interests over the years to come. If Jinnah is regarded as the father of Pakistan, [Winston] Churchill must qualify as its uncle; and, therefore, as a pivotal figure in the resurgence of political Islam.”

the author alex von tunzelmann, he wrote the Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire

[imb706]

Wasn't this guy the Thomas Paine of Pakistan?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Wasn't this guy the Thomas Paine of Pakistan?

No! He was the Chiang Kai-shek of Pakistan.

I heard he didn't even know how to pray.

[imb706]

Well, I meant as in the founder of the country. But he was a strong armed dictator?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

No! He was the Chiang Kai-shek of Pakistan.

I heard he didn't even know how to pray.

How dare you Insult Jinnah, if it wasnt for Jinnah, your Neo Jihadi Nexus wouldnt be even placed on this earth hahaha! Sangar i remember you use to go around youtube calling Punjabis as blackies etc, ohhh you know very well you inside love them very much as they are your Punjabi Taliban brothers.

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

Hec the man was against the khilafa movement

Yes because at that time he was in the Congress, the same Congress that Bacha Khan liked more than the MUSLIM League.

I am an advocate, pleading the cause of Musalmans, taking the part of Musalmans, fighting their fight. Nothing more nothing less”

I dont want more from him. Da hagha khpal qabar wo zamung khpal dey.
I dont care how good a Muslim he was or not, there arent any good/true Muslims even today so no problemo since the religion lives on.

Wasn't this guy the Thomas Paine of Pakistan?

You could have googled !!!

Well, I meant as in the founder of the country. But he was a strong armed dictator?

He was a British qualified Barrister at Law, meaning a highly qualified advocate, the most prominent leader supporting a democratic system in the sub continent after the British were to leave. He was the first Governor General which is like President of the Republic in British systems.

Bottomline: He was the complete opposite of a dictator.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Loll khushal khan that is a cop out of the highest order. Hahaha. Ok listen Congress had many muslim followers and part members, so I don't see your point. BTW Khilafah movement was supported by people outside of the congress as well. The reason Jinnah did not support it was that he had little to do or like about Islam, and he was a staunch secular indian nationalist. Now you trying to revise his life and pretending he was some great muslim advocate won't change who or what he was. You also didn't read the second quote or have read up on other sources that he was from a khwaja ismaili family and that he had even granted the british bases. See when you cut away this rhetoric and everything, you will realize that pakistan was a british creation for and by their interests. Nice try though.

p.s. its ironic though that the same people who say 'yahoodeezz' every second word end up not seeing how close pakistan is to israel in terms of situation and history (not in terms of development though).

[Son of Mountains]

^The actual reason why you call him a non muslim is that he was by chance a non Afghan. His bad luck!
What so ever he was, what so ever his made country is, now the ground reality is, it is a strong islamic country, atomic power, your argumentations can neither break it, nor give it even a little loss InshaAllah.

[Son of Mountains]

@K-cube... U have done a really great job marra. You r really a good pakistani, this makes u a good Pashtun! Allah de pa makha gulloona ka. Dera manana wrora

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^The actual reason why you call him a non muslim is that he was by chance a non Afghan. His bad luck!
What so ever he was, what so ever his made country is, now the ground reality is, it is a strong islamic country, atomic power, your argumentations can neither break it, nor give it even a little loss InshaAllah.

You know that is not true. However if it makes you feel better then so be it. Wrorkiyaa thaso bandae na dae raaghalae zakaa thaso wuss jeevae jeevae lag zyaath kawaee..che ISI/army thabahii woweenaee ao ya agha lobaa nu bya ba darna thaposs wokaammm che mung asae waayuu ao ka dar bandae badh wraazae raaghlal. unfortunately our people only learn when it destroys their own village or home.

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

You know that is not true. However if it makes you feel better then so be it. Wrorkiyaa thaso bandae na dae raaghalae zakaa thaso wuss jeevae jeevae lag zyaath kawaee..che ISI/army thabahii woweenaee ao ya agha lobaa nu bya ba darna thaposs wokaammm che mung asae waayuu ao ka dar bandae badh wraazae raaghlal. unfortunately our people only learn when it destroys their own village or home.

I know how it feels.
my own friends have suffered it.
It is sad and disgusting and really bad.

To be honest, I will not support what our Army/agencies do, how they do it, since they have shown on many occasions that they do it wrong, still, honestly speaking, Pakistan Army and Agencies are only one group in the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is far more ugly, and Pakistan Army and Co. are only part of the ugliness of this picture.

I hope you understand that as well.