Michael Scheuer --- views on the post-Osama atmosphere

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I don't understand why his views should be put up on such a pedestal? He has some good insights, but he is an American hawk and his idea of war would put NATO's current actions to shame. In fact from what I got from his interview was, that the war would have ok had it put US interests forward, done the job and had the political mettle to win it. I don't see this as being anything good or admirable. Sure he is being "honest", but then again we take it as a given that one state would look for its interests.

@Ghundal, what civilized world? The last one was colonizing the rest of the world.

[MDresden]

Yea, if we were here for purely our own interests, things would be a lot different. No Afghans on bases except for very specific jobs...no "co-habitation" as we have now...where the ANA/AUP lives in the same area as us.

We wouldn't be repairing "highway 1"-- the only paved highway in Afghanistan after our own after our own vehicles get blown up.

We wouldn't be providing humanitarian aid such as food grain and potable (drinkable) water by the tons and all those other things we are doing on a daily basis.

[faye]

you seem to be quite naive mdresden. you are in afghanistan due to strategic desires of neocons who work for their multinational and banker mates. there is a reason they want to be in afghanistan but it is not for the fixing of roads. that just looks sweet to the outside world.

[Alchemist]

Yea, if we were here for purely our own interests, things would be a lot different. No Afghans on bases except for very specific jobs...no "co-habitation" as we have now...where the ANA/AUP lives in the same area as us.

We wouldn't be repairing "highway 1"-- the only paved highway in Afghanistan after our own after our own vehicles get blown up.

We wouldn't be providing humanitarian aid such as food grain and potable (drinkable) water by the tons and all those other things we are doing on a daily basis.

No different than the Soviets.

[MDresden]

No different than the Soviets.

Big difference. For example, the Soviets didn't allow the locals to interpret anything in front of the Afghan people, they had to write everything down and then later do a debrief of sorts. We have 3 "older" terps that work for us that were here in the soviet invasion.

[Alchemist]

Big difference. For example, the Soviets didn't allow the locals to interpret anything in front of the Afghan people, they had to write everything down and then later do a debrief of sorts. We have 3 "older" terps that work for us that were here in the soviet invasion.

wow! that is such a huge difference....


The same "terps" that worked for the soviets are now working for you...amazing!

[MDresden]

wow! that is such a huge difference....


The same "terps" that worked for the soviets are now working for you...amazing!

No, one of the terps took up arms, the other 2 were growing up during the invasion.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

does it matter? hmmmm.....yeah, i would say it does matter, b.a. if he didn't do it, which hasn't been proven, the world right now, would be a different place. they had been planning the attack on saddam for many years but without this 9/11 event it may have been a bit more difficult for your brothers with arms, to go in there. afghanistan would possibly still be living how they were and the propaganda machine would not have the grist for the mill bs against muslims.
gee....b.a. you have really suprised me.
if it wasn't done by bin laden, then someone else did it and one would then have to ask, who?

Faye, the problem with discussing whether he did it or not is that it gives them fodder to label good (but sometimes abrasive) people like you as tin foil hat wearing morons (which you are not). It creates a situation where they dismiss you fringe lunatics.

You are 100% correct that they utilized the event as a basis for many actions, most of them unjust.

I am saying, lets put the ball in Dresden's court. Let him go for the 3 point shot. Give them the win on 9/11 and, whether you believe it happened by Bin Ladin's planning or not, demand an answer to why they think he did it. Make them explain why he was mad in the first place at them, make them read his original writings which appear to reference historical and accurate events, and then make them comment on our policies there.

Do the same with the American Muslim crowd. Make them comment on what Mr. Bin Ladin's goals were, had he executed such an attack. And not the short term goals either of getting the US to enter a war of attrition the way Hannibal lured Rome into wars of attrition.

Basically Faye, make them discuss American policy and what led up to 9/11 and what is emboldening and radicalizing youth across the Muslim world today.

Peter King, in his hearings was trying to paint the cause and effect relationship as: Wahhabi teachings ---> 9/11. That is not the case, and American Muslims failed at telling the public the truth: American actions and interventions abroad is what is earning us the hatred of millions, amongst who there are hundreds of thousands willing to take action to fight this hegemony.

Faye, my point is that dont let them be dismissive by accusing you of being a conspiracy monger. Make them comment on the US role in Iran, the US role in Iraq, the US bases in Saudi, etc.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I pity you "men of education" because you can't even have an opinion of your own unless it is voiced by some priestly institution.


What is so abstract and hypothetical about the simple question - Did he do it?

Instead you are going on a tangent of "did he have motive". Is this how it is now? You have completely adopted the rhetoric of Bush and Obama . "Let's screen brown people with beareds at the airports because they have motive".
More importantly, did he have the means to do it?

The answer to your question 1 is simple - I don't "think" he did it.

Now can you do it?

Did he do it?

No Brother Alchemist, I am simply stating that Americans need to remember the golden rule: do unto others as you would like done unto you.

As an example, the line of logic that my answer forces them to follow makes them come to the conclusion that:
It is absurd to screen brown people with beards because that is like treating a septic patient with tylenol and not antibiotics to kill the offending bacteria. It does nothing and just makes everyone's lives more miserable because we miss the big picture, which is that we have a choice in the matter by changing our policies and adopting energy independence, etc.

What your answer allows them to do is to go on the offensive and call you a conspiracy theorist. You may very well be right, but that is besides the point.

Give them a treaty of Hudaybiah moment... make them take the ball into their court and then see whether they dribble like Jordan or whether they trip and fall. Because the truth is right there, published, in the form of wikileaks regarding the Tacit Glaspie greenlight, the Operation Ajax affair, the Gulf War 1 fiasco, etc, they lose on their own court and then they lose big. At best, they can twist history or make the absurd contention that they occupied Saudi at the behest of a legitimate Saudi government. Even that is a laughable contention.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I pity you "men of education" because you can't even have an opinion of your own unless it is voiced by some priestly institution.


What is so abstract and hypothetical about the simple question - Did he do it?

Instead you are going on a tangent of "did he have motive". Is this how it is now? You have completely adopted the rhetoric of Bush and Obama . "Let's screen brown people with beareds at the airports because they have motive".
More importantly, did he have the means to do it?

The answer to your question 1 is simple - I don't "think" he did it.

Now can you do it?

Did he do it?

irony?

[Alchemist]

No, one of the terps took up arms, the other 2 were growing up during the invasion.

Whats your point son?

that you are employing afghans as pawns and interpreters the way the russians did?

How many of those "talibs" used to be ANA soldiers? You got any idea?

[MDresden]

Whats your point son?

that you are employing afghans as pawns and interpreters the way the russians did?

How many of those "talibs" used to be ANA soldiers? You got any idea?

Yes, yes I'm sure we do. Afghan security numbers are posted somewhere sometime I'm sure.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Yea, if we were here for purely our own interests, things would be a lot different. No Afghans on bases except for very specific jobs...no "co-habitation" as we have now...where the ANA/AUP lives in the same area as us.

We wouldn't be repairing "highway 1"-- the only paved highway in Afghanistan after our own after our own vehicles get blown up.

We wouldn't be providing humanitarian aid such as food grain and potable (drinkable) water by the tons and all those other things we are doing on a daily basis.

You guys did the same thing in South Vietnam ...and what ended up happening is that you turned Saigon into a Brothel for the GIs


this red herring of creating jobs and paving highways ...is really just a smokescreen

[ScimitarXEdge]

Big difference. For example, the Soviets didn't allow the locals to interpret anything in front of the Afghan people, they had to write everything down and then later do a debrief of sorts. We have 3 "older" terps that work for us that were here in the soviet invasion.

Actually this is a lie and has been disproven by numerous Soviet accounts of the Afghan-Soviet conflict, they specifically wanted things interpreted in front of the locals to maintain fear.

[Alchemist]

irony?

what are you rolling your eye balls at "Scimitar"?

it applies to you ...mr. ph.d.

What priestly institution have vowed to follow blindly?

Spewing lies about me...going ad hominem ...that is all you can do now. Hate me all you want ... fact remains ..you've sold out.

Of course .. I shouldn't be surprised.

You and Dr. Abdali are Americans.
At least you think you are.
And that country's culture is known for it's power to assimilate.
You are both confused in the same way....alone on the fringes...all you have is the institutions that brainwashed you into thinking abstractly because your rational is totally divorced from reality - That is the American way.