Rally against reconciliation/compromise with Taliban

[ScimitarXEdge]

???

Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. The word derives from the Ancient Greek: πᾶν (pan) meaning "all" and θεός (theos) meaning "God". As such, Pantheism denotes the idea that "God" is best seen as a way of relating to the Universe.[2] Although there are divergences within Pantheism, the central ideas found in almost all versions are the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity and the sacredness of Nature.

You do realize you are committing shirk?

do you realize your'e committing a straw man argument?

[Alchemist]

do you realize your'e committing a straw man argument?

Because I am calling you a pantheist?


Your claim that "Nature is the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an" is Fallacious.

We, Muslims, say that the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an is the Holy Prophet peace be upon him. If we have ever made the saying that it has a physical manifestation - we say that he, peace be upon him, was a walking Qur'an.

You are attributing greatness to "Nature". What is Nature? Are we not also apart of "Nature"? Do we not have Natural urges? Nay, you are taking the Mut'azali claim that Qur'an is a Makhluq erroneously to the conclusion that every Khalq is also Qur'an without understanding the original arguments for that claim. The Qur'an is Kalam Ullah, the Speech of Allah, thus it is not a makhluq in the sense that it exists in a "spiritual" or "physical" sense. The Quran is Guidance. But you are saying that Nature guides you. And you look to Nature for guidance. That you are nothing more than a hairless ape. That Nature is a Force. These are your claims. You are giving Attributes of Allah to "Nature".

You just like throwing that phrase around because you lack the depth of understanding necessary to make the connection between what I say to your self. The Strawman is you.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Because I am calling you a pantheist?


Your claim that "Nature is the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an" is Fallacious.

We, Muslims, say that the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an is the Holy Prophet peace be upon him. If we have ever made the saying that it has a physical manifestation - we say that he, peace be upon him, was a walking Qur'an.

You are attributing greatness to "Nature". What is Nature? Are we not also apart of "Nature"? Do we not have Natural urges? Nay, you are taking the Mut'azali claim that Qur'an is a Makhluq erroneously to the conclusion that every Khalq is also Qur'an without understanding the original arguments for that claim. The Qur'an is Kalam Ullah, the Speech of Allah, thus it is not a makhluq in the sense that it exists in a "spiritual" or "physical" sense. The Quran is Guidance. But you are saying that Nature guides you. And you look to Nature for guidance. That you are nothing more than a hairless ape. That Nature is a Force. These are your claims. You are giving Attributes of Allah to "Nature".

You just like throwing that phrase around because you lack the depth of understanding necessary to make the connection between what I say to your self. The Strawman is you.

No your brainwashed literalists say that

us More Enlightened True Defenders of Tawhid, the Mu'taziliyeen know better. Nabi(saw) was the living Qur'an, not the physical manifestation of the Qur'an. Meaning he lived according to the Qur'an; the Qur'an is inscribed in the way the Natural Order works, and hence Nature becomes the Physical Manifestation of the Qur'an since it physically embodies the hidden realities alluded to in the Qur'an about nature.


You're a little child "no I not, you are"l it's plain for all to see the reason you won't give Mountain Goat a straight reply is because you're in a catch 22.

If you believe the Earth is flat, you prove to be a deluded brainwashed ignoramus, there is undeniable verifiable undisputed evidence that it is spheroidal (or even ellipsoidal depending on what interpretation you use)

If you reject the Earth is flat, it opens the door for the Ulema' who you have taken to be God himself, and idoliize like an Hindu idolizes idols, are wrong and that means they could be wrong about other things, including the Ta'wil regarding whether or not Clay Adam is metaphoric or literal. Which thus unravels your entire platform.

I know the dilemma you're going through. I went through it too when I was a Literalist. But I realized God is Truth, so whatever is the Truth is from God. And thus I embraced truth and rejected people who spoke false ideas, even if they claimed to be servants of God.

maybe one day you'll wake up.

[graveyardofempires]

blind leading blind on an irrelevant subject.

those people who support foreign occupation of our holy land are in no way relevant.

this saleh is the biggest sellout a little money can buy.
He is a civil war preacher(wanting the foreign troops to stay and keep invading bombing etc).
above all this guy is an anti pashtun mofo who cant even do his job correctly.
he is a nobody

[BarakzaiAbdali]

blind leading blind on an irrelevant subject.

those people who support foreign occupation of our holy land are in no way relevant.

this saleh is the biggest sellout a little money can buy.
He is a civil war preacher(wanting the foreign troops to stay and keep invading bombing etc).
above all this guy is an anti pashtun mofo who cant even do his job correctly.
he is a nobody

Absolutey, he is horrible person. He has tortured countless pashtuns because of his Panjshiri vandetta. His word and his followers mean nothing.

[ComradePashtun]

Abdullah2X is a thug and this rally is more a US pressure tactic against Karzia until the inking of joint forces agreement…but I to think reconciliation with Pakistani trained militia aka Taliban…is a treason for following reasons.

1- Reconciliation will further weaken the central gov, it will allocated south and eastern Afghanistan to Taliban(Read Pakistan), and will creature two opposing powers with constant hostility…NA thugs vs Talibi thugs. We all know a weak central government is far more vulnerable to foreign intervention and ultimate breakup, a strong central government is not. Afghanistan is unstable and has been unstable precisely because the central government has always been weak vis-à-vis the regional powers -- this has ALWAYS been the case for the past 250 years. That was not true in Iran where you had a strong administrative central state, not true in Pakistan under British rule, and not true in the north with Soviet rule over the "stans". All those neighbors were subject to strong central control. Even Pakistan today, for all practical purposes, is under strong central control, with exception of a few border areas, which are horrific problems for Pakistan and only liked by the wacko Islamists in the Pakistani elite.

2- Taliban, NA and other factions could care less about Afghan national interest, central power, democracy, Islam, or anything else. They only cared about being an effective proxy for their bosses so they could get more financing. Look what happened to Hekmatyar. As soon as Pakistan dumped his a$$ for the Talibs and his money source ran dry, he started talking about "moderation" and "compromise". When Massod/Rabbani was corned in hole of Punjshir..they start talking about “broad base gov” and “compromise”… THAT was the ultimate source of the civil war.

The fact that Afghans exist who are/were willing to pimp everything to a foreign power for money and power was not new. What was new was that due to the Communists' destruction of both the state and civil society in Afghanistan, there was not a credible INTERNAL power source that could stand up to these foreign-funded proxy armies. And yes, the main reason for this was the lack of a strong central government.

3- Reconciliation with dogmatic wahabi/Dewbani group like Taliban will take us tens of years back from our goal of establishing a secular social democracy where religion is a private matter…and I don’t mean secularism like that of communist societies where religion is forbidden, but a secular constitution that guarantees each citizen's right to freely practice their religion, much like the United States. Some of you may object to this, but I tell you when I went to Afghanistan in 2003 and went into a masjid, it was completely devoid of any happiness or spirituality. It felt completely dead. Yet, miraculously, in the United States, in the land of "kafirs", the muslims here are the most religious in the whole muslim world. The same is true for Christians and other religious people. Only when people are completely free to practice as they choose will their religious devotion be truly authentic…and this is why I think this is closer to the Islamic ideal.

Well said, Azmal. Great you brught this up, I was going to mention this.

I don't think it is about the status of force agreement per se, but a tangle of issues in my opinion, so hence difficult to unravell at the moment. But with the benifit of hindsight, it is more to do with nature of political settlement with the Taliban that is creating this commosion. You know there is differnce of approach how to reconcile or reintegrate the Talibs, the first being Karzai's and the later the Americans' approch; both have its multi-dimentional affects both within Afghanistan and the region.

I definately think they had a nudge from the Americans with the rants.

On the other hand, seriously, these two individuals are made completely irrelevant in the Afghan politics. So this is an ideal situation to re-assert themselves with stocking the angar of poeple who are disinfranchised with all this uncertainty and not alot happening in improvement of their lives. Seriously, lets say there weren't Taliban around, what do they have to offer?

I suggest you and others watch a program in Tolo website under title of "Is there an opposition party in Afghanistan". It is an eye-opener for those who understand Dari. It basically uncovers the sad affair that Abdullah, Saleh and the ilk are with absolutely no policy or program that could secure them any political stature in Afghanistan. This is good circumvention what they are doing. They are failure.

But it is interesting to notice the measured tone in the Western media too.

Lets see what Karzai does now. He always has many tricks in his Karakook too after all.

To me these two bozos are a joke.