WHy is Pakistan supporting war against Afghans?

[ComradePashtun]

Back to primary lessons again. wtf

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Were the Taliban since their 4-5 year rule in Afghanistan, Pakistan centric? Were/are they serving Pakistan's interest right now? Or do they have their own goals which are separate from Pakistan's?

I don't think the initial taliban were Pakistan centric, they certainly gave Pakistan a lot of influence within Afghanistan which was a horrible mistake. Pakistan got a lot of influence and started looking at Afghanistan and FATA as their perpetual backyard...which explains their absurd requirements from the government of Afghanistan. The second question I answered in the previous post. The third is I am not sure. Time will tell what happens, and it all depends on the reconciliation of Afghanistan. If it doesn't reconcile then not only Pakistan, but NATO, regional powers will rip the country apart. BTW don't over-simplify things. One group can be influenced by another but not have the same goals. If one says ISI has a lot of leverage against Talibs, it doens't mean they are one and the same entity. Don't confuse things.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

BLSa,

Yara.. kho yaw zay dasi way che da jahelaan pa kshe na way! ta aw malgary de hum da kaar walaka wee!

Da moo tsa shee ta saathali.. hahaha

Dder wakht shuwae dae che baass mae na kawll..zrra zor mae na woo...woss lag saath la paara ba raasham bya ba baertha zamaa ao dyuu ba alta wee. Square 1.

[ghundal]

I don't think the initial taliban were Pakistan centric, they certainly gave Pakistan a lot of influence within Afghanistan which was a horrible mistake. Pakistan got a lot of influence and started looking at Afghanistan and FATA as their perpetual backyard...which explains their absurd requirements from the government of Afghanistan. The second question I answered in the previous post. The third is I am not sure. Time will tell what happens, and it all depends on the reconciliation of Afghanistan. If it doesn't reconcile then not only Pakistan, but NATO, regional powers will rip the country apart. BTW don't over-simplify things. One group can be influenced by another but not have the same goals. If one says ISI has a lot of leverage against Talibs, it doens't mean they are one and the same entity. Don't confuse things.

Well, this has been my point all along. The Taliban, like any other entity are serving their own short-term and long term interests. Their immediate goal being getting rid of US-nato from their land.

It is an Afghan resistance group, not a Pakistani one.

[ghundal]

Back to primary lessons again. wtf

shrok dula kick on the head lol?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Well, this has been my point all along. The Taliban, like any other entity are serving their own short-term and long term interests. Their immediate goal being getting rid of US-nato from their land.

It is an Afghan resistance group, not a Pakistani one.

They said the same about the 7 mujahideen groups, how did that turn out? Ask people who lived through that era and then you will get the answer to that.

[ghundal]

Dder wakht shuwae dae che baass mae na kawll..zrra zor mae na woo...woss lag saath la paara ba raasham bya ba baertha zamaa ao dyuu ba alta wee. Square 1.

lets stick to the topic and not be unmasculine.

you guys can have this talk in pm

[BLS_1919v2.0]

lets stick to the topic and not be unmasculine.

you guys can have this talk in pm

So talking behind someone's back would masculine? What we are saying in a way pertains to the thread and is for everyone to see. It isn't good to talk behind other's backs.

[ghundal]

They said the same about the 7 mujahideen groups, how did that turn out? Ask people who lived through that era and then you will get the answer to that.

the Taliban were a response to the chaos and destruction brought by the Mujahideen factions. Northern Alliance is also made up of many Mujahideen factions, most that were responsible for the killings and crimes that took place around Afghanistan.

They resulted into an extreme force to stamp out the crime which took place.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

the Taliban were a response to the chaos and destruction brought by the Mujahideen factions. Northern Alliance is also made up of many Mujahideen factions, most that were responsible for the killings and crimes that took place around Afghanistan.

They resulted into an extreme force to stamp out the crime which took place.

I think you missed my point. I said that the same things about resistance and freedom fighters rhetoric was said about the mujahideen groups.

Again I would love to believe that a proper counter movement exists that can take NATO's place...all the better for Afghanistan. However I am not too sure. This doesn't mean I endorse NATO's military actions, far from it. There are many factors and it depends on many things (one of them is taliban).

[ghundal]

I think you missed my point. I said that the same things about resistance and freedom fighters rhetoric was said about the mujahideen groups.

Again I would love to believe that a proper counter movement exists that can take NATO's place...all the better for Afghanistan. However I am not too sure. This doesn't mean I endorse NATO's military actions, far from it. There are many factors and it depends on many things (one of them is taliban).

No, I did not miss your point. You have missed mine. Comparing the Taliban and the Mujahideen factions is like comparing apples and oranges. You are saying that if US withdraws, the same chaos will ensue, so you are comparing the Taliban to the Mujahdeen factions (post-Soviet- most of these factions make up the Northern Alliance)

How is this not support for US-nato? US-nato is killing Afghans everyday. Airstrikes, night raids, killings-these are all crimes. Now, Comrade being from Kabul may be witnessing some level of normalcy, so he seems to be quite detached from other Afghans in the areas of strong resistance. US-nato is not bringing order, but disorder. Whereas the Taliban are gaining back power because they are bringing justice and order.

The Taliban were a response to the chaos brought about by the Mujahideen factional fighting. They brought order to the country, and since they had witnessed the crimes with their own eyes, they brought sever punishment for all crimes.
The same is happening now, and they are again a response to the disorder and crime that US-nato brought.

P.S. what you and comrade did is what my sister does with her friends. Men don't do this, but you know yourself, and thats all that matters- and others here know too

[BLS_1919v2.0]

No, I did not miss your point. You have missed mine. The Taliban and the Mujahideen are apples and oranges. You are saying that if US withdraws, the same chaos will ensue, so you are comparing the Taliban to the Mujahdeen factions (post-Soviet- most of these factions make up the Northern Alliance)

How is this not support for US-nato? US-nato is killing Afghans everyday. They are not bringing order, but disorder. Whereas the Taliban are gaining back power because they are bringing justice and order.

The Taliban were a response to the chaos brought about by the Mujahideen factional fighting. They brought order to the country, and since they had witnessed the crimes with their own eyes, they brought sever punishment for all crimes.
The same is happening now, and they are again a response to the disorder and crime that US-nato brought.

P.S. what you and comrade did is what my sister does with her friends. Men don't do this, but you know yourself, and thats all that matters- and others here know too

I know what NA is and what taliban are. So no I didn't miss your point. What I told you was on the onset that there are changes that are going to happen, which I am not entirely sure of. They, however, do depend on what happens to Afghanistan from now and the supposed NATO withdrawal. What I pointed out was that your rhetoric is the same as those that supported mujahideen was. They said similar things and praised them as such.

And it doesn't translate into support for NATO. Don't black and white things. If it were up to me NATO and Pakistan would not be interfering in my land and I would be a happy happy man. Who can support foreigners on their land? Like I told Barakzai, I will tell you....there are many factors here and one should be cautious of the route taken. We have to understand the cards we are dealt with and accordingly fight for our people's sovereignty. Like I told you before, it would do you a lot of good if you could pick up some introductory books on politics and IR (international relations). Maybe then you wouldn't oversimplify things.

People joining the ranks taliban are joining for different reasons, the deterioration of law and order is one.

You think NATO wasn't aware of what they were getting into? They are not as daft as they think them to be. Billions of dollars went into this, they have their ulterior motives which I dislike, but don't discount them out. They won't leave because of talibs, but rather their own internal issues will pull them out.

P.S. I don't know what your sister does with her friends...maybe you shouldn't be prying into her conversations with her friends. What I did was speak in my language about things that are for everyone to see. It is out in the open. People can check it, read it, copy it, paste it. Is this what your sister does with her friends?

[ghundal]

I know what NA is and what taliban are. So no I didn't miss your point. What I told you was on the onset that there are changes that are going to happen, which I am not entirely sure of. They, however, do depend on what happens to Afghanistan from now and the supposed NATO withdrawal. What I pointed out was that your rhetoric is the same as those that supported mujahideen was. They said similar things and praised them as such.

And it doesn't translate into support for NATO. Don't black and white things. If it were up to me NATO and Pakistan would not be interfering in my land and I would be a happy happy man. Who can support foreigners on their land? Like I told Barakzai, I will tell you....there are many factors here and one should be cautious of the route taken. We have to understand the cards we are dealt with and accordingly fight for our people's sovereignty. Like I told you before, it would do you a lot of good if you could pick up some introductory books on politics and IR (international relations). Maybe then you wouldn't oversimplify things.

People joining the ranks taliban are joining for different reasons, the deterioration of law and order is one.

You think NATO wasn't aware of what they were getting into? They are not as daft as they think them to be. Billions of dollars went into this, they have their ulterior motives which I dislike, but don't discount them out. They won't leave because of talibs, but rather their own internal issues will pull them out.

P.S. I don't know what your sister does with her friends...maybe you shouldn't be prying into her conversations with her friends. What I did was speak in my language about things that are for everyone to see. It is out in the open. People can check it, read it, copy it, paste it. Is this what your sister does with her friends?

sister as in this is what women do my friend. I could have said grandmother too.

you keep changing what you say. First, you say I should find out what happened in the aftermath of the Soviet defeat (as if I did not know), now you say my rhetoric is the same as those who supported the Mujahideen.... make up your mind as to exactly what you are saying!!!

SO in essence, you are making assumptions about what the Taliban will do, but you are turning a blind eye to what US-nato IS doing.

so you have assumptions and guesses about what will happen. Great!

This is what is happening...

US-nato has brought disorder, and is killing Afghans everyday, but you count them as a source of what exactly? Stability? Is that stable? I don't need to list the number of killings and crimes that have occurred. Maybe if they go to KP, and start their operations there, you will have a different take on them. Supposed withdrawal lol. The withdrawal is happening due to the Taliban. This war has cost my nation both in blood and treasure, and to say that is not a reason for their withdrawal is to be foolish. Americans will no longer pay for Johnny and Steve to die in Afghanistan, and be sent back to their mothers in coffins. Withdrawal is happening whether one likes it or not.

US-nato (nato is small words because they are just client states of the US) thought it would be a cake walk. They underestimated Afghan resistance due to the quick fall of the Taliban which was mostly due to US superior military technology. That is again your assumption about why they will leave. You want to say they will leave for other reason besides the Taliban, well Im sure they will claim some other reason too, for their departure

its late, i gotta sleep.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

sister as in this is what women do my friend. I could have said grandmother too.

you keep changing what you say. First, you say I should find out what happened in the aftermath of the Soviet defeat (as if I did not know), now you say my rhetoric is the same as those who supported the Mujahideen.... make up your mind as to exactly what you are saying!!!

SO in essence, you are making assumptions about what the Taliban will do, but you are turning a blind eye to what US-nato IS doing.

so you have assumptions and guesses about what will happen. Great!

This is what is happening...

US-nato has brought disorder, and is killing Afghans everyday, but you count them as a source of what exactly? Stability? Is that stable? I don't need to list the number of killings and crimes that have occurred. Maybe if they go to KP, and start their operations there, you will have a different take on them. Supposed withdrawal lol. The withdrawal is happening due to the Taliban. This war has cost my nation both in blood and treasure, and to say that is not a reason for their withdrawal is to be foolish. Americans will no longer pay for Johnny and Steve to die in Afghanistan, and be sent back to their mothers in coffins. Withdrawal is happening whether one likes it or not.

I haven't change a thing I said. Look at my posts. I just clarified it to you, and you still don't understand. Are you trying to discuss or go after people? It looks like you are doing the latter.

In essence I have said I needed to say and I don't want to repeat myself. It is all there. What is it that you would exactly want me to do? DDAZ DDDOZZ BAD BAD PEERANGYAAN ZINDABADDDDD!! Is that much better?

Khaana, don't make this KP v Afghanistan issue, as they are one and the same to me. I just told you I don't support NATO's military action. I can't write a song for you so you can can understand in an anymore clear tone.

Supposed withdrawal, because they have little intention of fully withdrawing and if and when they do, they are more likely to pull an Iraq style withdrawal. The only way a proper and full withdrawal can happen is if the American centric global order is no longer present. For that to occur they will have to collapse internally. This again depends on their economic situation, whether or not they can maintain their reserve dollar status, and push their domestic agenda on the backs of the rest of the world. This will dictate the real change. Don't for one second think it is going to happen in Pashtun lands. We may be a black hole for their almost worthless fiat currency (then again this is the case with all fiat), but will be an issue that is a catalyst, not the reason. Seriously, do they teach you anything in your university/school?

Withdrawal will obviously happen. However, will it be on the terms that benefit your people or on terms that could potentially put your lot in a rotten place. These are two distinct things. You can't just perpetuate another crisis in your land only for another America (before that Soviets, prior to that British, prior Mughals, before that God knows who else) to come in. That is another lost generation, another dead people. These costs add up and end up accumulating till you are part of an almost dead nation. Do you think about these things as well? Or do you jump up and down?

I didn't say NATO brought stability, but they didn't just jump into Afghanistan ass backwards, there are multiple interests there and many corporations profiteering on the back of Afghanistan. Don't worry, they don't do hawaeee ddaz ddoz like you.


P.S. ok now grandmother, before sister, etc etc etc. Do you ever say anything consistent? Did you hear this from someone else and are "regurgitating" that info?

[ghundal]

so all your points are based on assumptions?