The anti-pashtun marwats khans

[graveyardofempires]

So Ahmad Khan Abdali could go through hundred of villages and hundred of local powers without killing them? Have you read Ghobar´s book Afghanistan Dar Masir e Tarikh? Why should facts be anti-Pashtuns? Ahmad Khan Abdali was a warrior, a soldier.

like i said im not interested in what you got to say ,all of your info is propaganda and lies and belongs in trashcan.

[Michin Khel]

@khalid
Simply Ignore graveyard and answer bls's question.

[graveyardofempires]

^
ignore the truth or better yet burry your head in the sand or close your eyes and think the world doesnt exist.

[Michin Khel]

^
ignore the truth or better yet burry your head in the sand or close your eyes and think the world doesnt exist.

He is new to this forum, he doesnt know the atmosphere here, he thinks that only you are anti-pakistani.

[graveyardofempires]

^
im not anti pakistan
im anti paki state and jinah ka pakistan mentality.

[graveyardofempires]

@Grave, whats the word for sellout pashtuns of Afghanistan, who destroyed our country in the name of communism, and other isms? should we call them, haramzada or what?

stop being apologitic mr timbaktu

you cant stand and defend the honour of Afghanistan that stay on the sideways.

traitors in Afghanistan are called traitor Afghans.

[khalidmehmood]

^
im not anti pakistan
im anti paki state and jinah ka pakistan mentality.

I reiterate none of your posts is worth a reply. You are only good at writing indecent words that you have collected from dictionary. If life is cruel to you, you should endure it and try not to pass on anger to others.

[Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada]

Brother graveyard is very very angry toward life, this world and other people. Unfortunately, I don´t know his reasons for that.

[graveyardofempires]

^
life is great as an Afghan,at least we have an identity
cant say the same about you who is a slave of a slave.

[graveyardofempires]

ok guys keep on leading eachother and living in the fantasy land.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

My problem is not with history, it is a past now, and it cannot wipe out Pakistan. My problem is with the kind of attitude that graveyardofempires has. What makes him think that he can call names such as potato, ignorant, slaveboy. As a moderator, you should be the one asking him to behave decently. I do not accept if he says with this attitude that "Allah is One", let alone this history thing. Hope you understand that his style is very irritating. Look at all his posts and you will understand where he belongs. Bottomline of all his posts is that he says that you have to be indecent if you are Pashtun. I encourage you to make this place a good forum for Pashtuns to have good discussions in a decent atmosphere. This gentleman is bent upon discouraging decency.

Potato itself is not an insult, plus I did delete/edit his posts...that is not for you to worry about.

His actions and other members are going to dealt with by the moderators. Having said that, you still basically sidelined the issue. If his version of h istory is wrong, what is right then?

[khalidmehmood]

The responses are too vitriolic to be considered worthy of academic discourse. Still, it is essential that some misconceptions are cleared up immediately. Pakistan had its inception as a secular state. Any state that mixes religion and politics is bound to end in disaster. Israel is not a secular state and we have seen its history marked in bloodshed.

Unless a muslim has the temerity to suggest that we give up the loving universal message of Islam, which is best manifested in secular democracies, and adopt zealotry and bigotry as religious states do, Pakistan's inception was rightly quite secular. Shaikh Muhammad Abduh, one of the astute muslim thinkers of the late 19th century, is quoted to have said "I went to the West and saw Islam but not muslims, and I came to East and saw muslims but not Islam". There is great wisdom to this quote.

To call Pakistan a land of kafirs is to by default exclude oneself from any civil debate. Pakistan was the brainchild of some of the most prominent muslim minds such as Dr. Muhammad Iqbal, Maulana Muhammad Ali Johar, and the famed Leopold Weiss (Muhammad Asad). However to suggest that the method of partitioning India was the fault of Jinnah or his allies is ignorant at best. The British hastily partitioned India leaving several areás in turmoil, not only the Khyber region. The Sikhs also lost access to some of their most holiest sites in the Punjab.

As concerns history, I believe it is essential that ordinary Afghans are well acquainted with their own history. Many Afghans and Pashtuns are under some self-delusional mindset that Afghanistan has always been ruled by the Pashtuns. The pashtun dynasties in Afghanistan only rose to power in 1709 (barely 300 years ago) with the rise of Mirwais Khan Hotaki and later Ahmad Shah Baba. Before that, for nearly 1000 years of islamic history, what is now Afghanistan changed hands between Mongols, Turks and the Persians. We pashtuns were also notorious for switching alliances when it suited us.

Many muslims in the Indian subcontinent supported Maharaja Ranjit Singh and were later employed by the British. Let us not regress to infantile heroism. Muslims in India as muslims in every other time period, practiced Realpolitik, and allied themselves with those who were their neighbours, their long-time allies and with whom they shared more cultural ties than the Afghans who were alien to them. If this makes them so called "kafirs", then it is slippery slope before such accusations can also be hurled at a long line of muslim leaders and caliphs including many Afghan leaders such as Shah Shuja who sided with the British. Broken jaws ?" Dost Muhammad Khan was soundly defeated by the British in open battle, the British also took the hitherto impregnable fortress at Ghazni, by the treachery of "wait for it".... an Afghan. It is essential to examine one's own history before callling others kafirs and munafiqs. I hope Afghans realize that the First Anglo Afghan War is not something to take pride in ! General Elphinstone was promised safe passage to India and then attacked while retreating with nearly 11000 civilians. To break agreements and massacre civilians is not only contrary to the laws of chivalry to but the laws of Islam as well.

To live in the past is detrimental and foolish. To believe that the Pakistani government should allow Afghans to enter Pakistan without identification is ludicrous. The Afghans have never reciprocated that gesture. As a pashtun, when I crossed into the border, the Afghan border gaurds took a good 5 minutes examining my passport. Let us not hurl useless accusations or engage in name calling. Pashtuns on both sides of the border have shown both extreme valor and extreme cowardice. There are great many pakistani pashtuns who have died in the service of their country and have been living manifestations of Pakhtunwali. Many pashtuns have died protecting the tribal areas from armed insurgents. Let us not forget Rahman Baba is buried in Pakistan. Let us not forget that one of the greatest pashtun kings and indian kings so to speak, Sher Shah Suri is buried in India. We pashtuns are a nomadic tribal people. Pashtunwali and islam will be carried in our hearts and we may practice it in New York City or may choose not to practice it in Kandahar.

[ComradePashtun]

The responses are too vitriolic to be considered worthy of academic discourse. Still, it is essential that some misconceptions are cleared up immediately. Pakistan had its inception as a secular state. Any state that mixes religion and politics is bound to end in disaster. Israel is not a secular state and we have seen its history marked in bloodshed.

Unless a muslim has the temerity to suggest that we give up the loving universal message of Islam, which is best manifested in secular democracies, and adopt zealotry and bigotry as religious states do, Pakistan's inception was rightly quite secular. Shaikh Muhammad Abduh, one of the astute muslim thinkers of the late 19th century, is quoted to have said "I went to the West and saw Islam but not muslims, and I came to East and saw muslims but not Islam". There is great wisdom to this quote.

To call Pakistan a land of kafirs is to by default exclude oneself from any civil debate. Pakistan was the brainchild of some of the most prominent muslim minds such as Dr. Muhammad Iqbal, Maulana Muhammad Ali Johar, and the famed Leopold Weiss (Muhammad Asad). However to suggest that the method of partitioning India was the fault of Jinnah or his allies is ignorant at best. The British hastily partitioned India leaving several areás in turmoil, not only the Khyber region. The Sikhs also lost access to some of their most holiest sites in the Punjab.

As concerns history, I believe it is essential that ordinary Afghans are well acquainted with their own history. Many Afghans and Pashtuns are under some self-delusional mindset that Afghanistan has always been ruled by the Pashtuns. The pashtun dynasties in Afghanistan only rose to power in 1709 (barely 300 years ago) with the rise of Mirwais Khan Hotaki and later Ahmad Shah Baba. Before that, for nearly 1000 years of islamic history, what is now Afghanistan changed hands between Mongols, Turks and the Persians. We pashtuns were also notorious for switching alliances when it suited us.

Many muslims in the Indian subcontinent supported Maharaja Ranjit Singh and were later employed by the British. Let us not regress to infantile heroism. Muslims in India as muslims in every other time period, practiced Realpolitik, and allied themselves with those who were their neighbours, their long-time allies and with whom they shared more cultural ties than the Afghans who were alien to them. If this makes them so called "kafirs", then it is slippery slope before such accusations can also be hurled at a long line of muslim leaders and caliphs including many Afghan leaders such as Shah Shuja who sided with the British. Broken jaws ?" Dost Muhammad Khan was soundly defeated by the British in open battle, the British also took the hitherto impregnable fortress at Ghazni, by the treachery of "wait for it".... an Afghan. It is essential to examine one's own history before callling others kafirs and munafiqs. I hope Afghans realize that the First Anglo Afghan War is not something to take pride in ! General Elphinstone was promised safe passage to India and then attacked while retreating with nearly 11000 civilians. To break agreements and massacre civilians is not only contrary to the laws of chivalry to but the laws of Islam as well.

To live in the past is detrimental and foolish. To believe that the Pakistani government should allow Afghans to enter Pakistan without identification is ludicrous. The Afghans have never reciprocated that gesture. As a pashtun, when I crossed into the border, the Afghan border gaurds took a good 5 minutes examining my passport. Let us not hurl useless accusations or engage in name calling. Pashtuns on both sides of the border have shown both extreme valor and extreme cowardice. There are great many pakistani pashtuns who have died in the service of their country and have been living manifestations of Pakhtunwali. Many pashtuns have died protecting the tribal areas from armed insurgents. Let us not forget Rahman Baba is buried in Pakistan. Let us not forget that one of the greatest pashtun kings and indian kings so to speak, Sher Shah Suri is buried in India. We pashtuns are a nomadic tribal people. Pashtunwali and islam will be carried in our hearts and we may practice it in New York City or may choose not to practice it in Kandahar.

Khalid Mahmaood,

With all due respect, but I am finding it exteremly hard to analyse your arguement and where exactly you are trying to get and what you want to prove.

But the degree to which you extenuate the creation of a country which was never ideologised by no muslim - is intellectually embarassing - but non other than being reared by Britian is a fact through which you should instead start. Yes the Muslims card was played cleverly. Infact Pashtuns were denied the right to choose for themseslves, shame you want outrightly ignore that. The backbone of the very Pakistani state was created from then (and is still is) feudal British slaves; the 40 families, perhaps including some Fathan Marwat ones. Qaid was a pork eater. For you to white wash all this is a travesty of justice. lol It is a history and a fact that you can never hide no matter how much of a Pakistani gentleman you could possibly be. Pakistani state was largely a post colonial strategic and security creation which has sadly never evolved to anything other than its original foundation as a security state till this day, and I dont think it will any time soon. The sadist and perverted religious demon in it which ensures its very existance is precisely what makes what ever problem every one seems to have with it. I am really worried about the future of Pashtuns, the way things are evolving and the uncertainty environment which is potentially associated with eternal dangers require new renaissance from Pashutns.

One thing I have notices about Paki Pashtuns is that much to their chagrin how history has shaped up their current political existance (which is nothing to be proud of) is to malign and deingrade the glorious Pashtun history and the Afghan bla bla. That is history which not only exclusive to Afghan Pashtuns, but they can claim to inherit it due Afghanistan being a Pashtun entity. Pashtun history never starts with Mirwais Neeka, indeed as you have mentioned Sher Shah Suri, he miself is descendant of the Suris and the Ghorids - heard of the Suri and Ghorid dynasties? Who made up almost the entire army of Ghaznavi?And it goes back to the times of Alexandra the Great and Aryans. We are seldom ruled by others! I am proud of it more than your Paki history. Sorry that Pakistan has rendered you so hopeless.

Yes we do take pride in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Anglo-Afghan wars. Those are recognised as great wars of freedom and valor of the Pashtun nation. The colonialists never subjugated us physically and politically. Dost Mohammed was beaten, but the Afghan Pashtun ghazi warriors won the war at the end. The British army was slaughered because the British were known for their treachery and back-stabbing. Reinforcemnet was on its way and the rest was only chicanery. Do you know anything about how the British mercilessly terrorised and massacred Afghans? Despite what you say, history commeds us against the British which subjugated you and you live with it, we are not.

That aside, I personally hardly give a two hoot about your country and what you do etc. and my advice to some silly Afghans is the same to leave you alone.

[ComradePashtun]

Why are some tribes favoured than the others? Khattaks, Marwats, Afridis to Shinwaris etc.? Or even Hazaras in Baluchistan promoted while Pashtuns demoted?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

The responses are too vitriolic to be considered worthy of academic discourse. Still, it is essential that some misconceptions are cleared up immediately. Pakistan had its inception as a secular state. Any state that mixes religion and politics is bound to end in disaster. Israel is not a secular state and we have seen its history marked in bloodshed.

Unless a muslim has the temerity to suggest that we give up the loving universal message of Islam, which is best manifested in secular democracies, and adopt zealotry and bigotry as religious states do, Pakistan's inception was rightly quite secular. Shaikh Muhammad Abduh, one of the astute muslim thinkers of the late 19th century, is quoted to have said "I went to the West and saw Islam but not muslims, and I came to East and saw muslims but not Islam". There is great wisdom to this quote.

To call Pakistan a land of kafirs is to by default exclude oneself from any civil debate. Pakistan was the brainchild of some of the most prominent muslim minds such as Dr. Muhammad Iqbal, Maulana Muhammad Ali Johar, and the famed Leopold Weiss (Muhammad Asad). However to suggest that the method of partitioning India was the fault of Jinnah or his allies is ignorant at best. The British hastily partitioned India leaving several areás in turmoil, not only the Khyber region. The Sikhs also lost access to some of their most holiest sites in the Punjab.

As concerns history, I believe it is essential that ordinary Afghans are well acquainted with their own history. Many Afghans and Pashtuns are under some self-delusional mindset that Afghanistan has always been ruled by the Pashtuns. The pashtun dynasties in Afghanistan only rose to power in 1709 (barely 300 years ago) with the rise of Mirwais Khan Hotaki and later Ahmad Shah Baba. Before that, for nearly 1000 years of islamic history, what is now Afghanistan changed hands between Mongols, Turks and the Persians. We pashtuns were also notorious for switching alliances when it suited us.

Many muslims in the Indian subcontinent supported Maharaja Ranjit Singh and were later employed by the British. Let us not regress to infantile heroism. Muslims in India as muslims in every other time period, practiced Realpolitik, and allied themselves with those who were their neighbours, their long-time allies and with whom they shared more cultural ties than the Afghans who were alien to them. If this makes them so called "kafirs", then it is slippery slope before such accusations can also be hurled at a long line of muslim leaders and caliphs including many Afghan leaders such as Shah Shuja who sided with the British. Broken jaws ?" Dost Muhammad Khan was soundly defeated by the British in open battle, the British also took the hitherto impregnable fortress at Ghazni, by the treachery of "wait for it".... an Afghan. It is essential to examine one's own history before callling others kafirs and munafiqs. I hope Afghans realize that the First Anglo Afghan War is not something to take pride in ! General Elphinstone was promised safe passage to India and then attacked while retreating with nearly 11000 civilians. To break agreements and massacre civilians is not only contrary to the laws of chivalry to but the laws of Islam as well.

To live in the past is detrimental and foolish. To believe that the Pakistani government should allow Afghans to enter Pakistan without identification is ludicrous. The Afghans have never reciprocated that gesture. As a pashtun, when I crossed into the border, the Afghan border gaurds took a good 5 minutes examining my passport. Let us not hurl useless accusations or engage in name calling. Pashtuns on both sides of the border have shown both extreme valor and extreme cowardice. There are great many pakistani pashtuns who have died in the service of their country and have been living manifestations of Pakhtunwali. Many pashtuns have died protecting the tribal areas from armed insurgents. Let us not forget Rahman Baba is buried in Pakistan. Let us not forget that one of the greatest pashtun kings and indian kings so to speak, Sher Shah Suri is buried in India. We pashtuns are a nomadic tribal people. Pashtunwali and islam will be carried in our hearts and we may practice it in New York City or may choose not to practice it in Kandahar.

Khaana your arguments are riddled with buffet like pickings of history and a few straw man arguments. What does Sher Shah Suri's rule or Rehman Baba's burial have to do with the future or choice of Pashtuns wanting a seperate Afghan/Pashtun state? This fundamentally doesn't prove anything other than certain realities that once were. One can also point out that Lenin is buried in modern day Russia and not the USSR...but this has no bearing on what the Soviet union was or what the inhabitants wanted.

About the secular nature of Pakistan, well this in itself is a very funny concept even if it is true. If Pakistan was meant to be secular in nature, then what is point of the ideology? Whom does it apply to?
Regarding Iqbal, well that is highly debatable, as Iqbal wrote to a colleague in England regarding his clarification (I have the jpeg which I can upload). Khaana Israel is a more secular state than Pakistan or any in the middle east, its bloodshed is marked by its contradictory creation much like Pakistan. I mean by this argument Pakistan is no better, nor secular. Quite frankly there is quite an irony in your posts as you said religion and politics brings bloodshed, shall one remind you of the bloodshed of partition? I mean this doesn't help your stand, rather weakens it.