The anti-pashtun marwats khans

[Michin Khel]

deer beghairata ra wakhata wallah. Landakian yadawum. lol

Sheeet... good revelations.

where is your melmastob you kabuli pathan? Atleast welcome the new member.

[hameedlandakai]

^Provide me the source or the link where it says that saifullahs are ancestral khans!. By ancestral khans i mean the ones who were even influential before advent of british.

Brother
like i mentioned to you before, there is no one Khan of the area. Different areas had different Khans, and there were a few main ones.

You ask for sources, there are a few sources namely:
The Bannu Gazateer of 1907 and Bannu Gazateer of 1884. Please look at under totzai chiefs.
Also the book 'the Marwats' by Sher Muhammad Mohmand.
Also Marwato Kasruna published by Abdul Rahim Majzoob Advocate
Also if you look at Bannu Gazateer of 1907, it mentions two totzai chiefs. One is Mohammad Ghazni Khel, and other the normal one. Mohammad Ghazni khel as mentioned by the Gazateer was created by the British, because Mohammad helped British when they were coming to Pezu. It mentions the hereditary Chiefs as Shadi Khan and his uncle Sherdil Khan ( great grand father of saifullahs).
Logically think about it, would the British support those who helped them or those who didnt. However, like other Khans such as anwar kamal family, naseer Muhammad family, the gazateer had to recognize the hereditary chiefs.
This can be seen in Bannu Gazateer of 1907. In Bannu Gazateer 1884, Pourdil Khan Raees is mentioned.

Coming to Marwato Khasaruna, Marwat War Ballards. The role of Mahabat Khan Ghazni Khel, Chief of Ghazni Khel are mentioned. His fight against the Wazirs, and Gandapurs, and also his fight with Midad Khel tribe is mentioned.
Midad Khel was one of the leading tribes, in fact leaders of Spin Gund Faction, Ghazi Khel and Essakhel were tor Gund. Spin Gunds were stronger before, but later on Tor Gund become more powerful.

Marwato Kasurana is written BY a MIDADHEL- (Sworn Enemy of Ghazni Khel).

Like i mentioned before, there was not only one Khan, there were 5-6 major Khans. As for politics, the family did not enter it before 1937, when the elections were held.

The Marwats written by Sher Muhammad Mohmand (who is not marwat) has given account of the entire tribe, and mentions all the tribes. so you can read there.

Anwar Kamal family was also very educated and influential families, and held many senior posts in British time, and after British time. It is good that both families have reconciled, i think this is good for Pakistan as well Marwats.
In fact i have heard Anwar kamal khan himself praise the saifullah family for its development work, and it being renowned.

Also as you maybe mina khel, you will be aware that Khan Gulham Dawood Khan (relative of Anwar Kamal Khan) was a senior burecrat, who was very influential. He had many proposals for his daughters from Pro British people within and outside Marwat tribes. He was known for his honour and integrity. When he was AC Peshawar (i am not sure but i think it was this post). he refused to fire at students on British command, and said he would rather resign. He gave his daughter to Ghazni Khel, the son of Khan Sahib Faizullah Khan.

Lastly it does not matter, who is influential before or after; as long as they come from the good family. If tomorrow Begu Khel family becomes most influential tribe, it does not mean, they were not influential before; probably less so, but still notable.

But it is people like Malik Imran etc, who are not from the marwat aristocracy, and that is something to be noted.

Please do not hold grudges against people.

[hameedlandakai]

deer beghairata ra wakhata wallah. Landakian yadawum. lol

Sheeet... good revelations.

My friend,
dont you think Bacha Khan's ancestors had cordial ties with the British? Of course Khan Bahram Khan, who i believe was his father had cordial ties.

The Wali Khan family made full use of british education etc, and you are saying Marwat Khans sold out?

Yes Wali Khan did struggle for independence , but not less than Marwat Chiefs. Justice Khan Habibullah khan Meena khel fought staunchly for independence. So did Barrister Khan Saifullah Khan. Both went to jail in indepdence movement against the British.

so those who fought for independence are traitors?

[khalidmehmood]

Brother
like i mentioned to you before, there is no one Khan of the area. Different areas had different Khans, and there were a few main ones.

You ask for sources, there are a few sources namely:
The Bannu Gazateer of 1907 and Bannu Gazateer of 1884. Please look at under totzai chiefs.
.
.

But it is people like Malik Imran etc, who are not from the marwat aristocracy, and that is something to be noted.

Please do not hold grudges against people.

It is good to see posts like this in the Pashtunforums. This post is not only informative quoting reference but also has a decent tone. It is the right of every forum member to agree or disagree to what hameedlandakai has said, but please those who disagree with this gentleman should come up with references similar to the ones he has quoted. This is quite a constructive and interesting debate, which should be carried on with decency and mutual respect.

[khalidmehmood]

deer beghairata ra wakhata wallah. Landakian yadawum. lol

Sheeet... good revelations.

Dear ComradePashtun,

Kindly avoid indecent and/or abusive word, even if you extremely disagree with any of the forum members. No offence meant. I also request the forum administrator to take note of this.

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Pashtun Forums is a good website. I have recently registered my membership and read different posts with interest.

While freedom of expression is right of every human being we should present balanced views which are historically factual. Our religion also teaches us to stay within the parameters of decency and ethics. Our Pashtunwali also demands that we should be decent and courteous. Unfortunately, some of the views posted by my fellow members do not serve any purpose, except for hurling accusations without quoting any reference or proof. The content of this website can certainly be improved by posting informative posts. The criticism of any individual and/or organization should be unbiased, balanced, and constructive based entirely on facts. Extreme views should be avoided while supporting and opposing a person or a statement.

I would like to draw attention to some of the statements made in different posts. In one of the messages it is written that “The most punjabizads and speak even a punjabi type pashtu ,,,achaa,,,etc. These traitors destroy the pashtuns for punjabis.Their pashtu is dead,gerat and pashtunwali dead..”. This statement is extreme in extent and devoid of any reasoning. This statement should not have been given in the first place, as it does not serve any purpose except causing a bad taste.

The honourable writer mentions in another statement that “anwar kamal is another traitor and belong to PML/if i am not wrong”. Calling someone a “traitor” without any substantial evidence is an absolute false statement. Belonging to any particular political party is everybody’s right. We should not blame someone for his/her party affiliation. By the way, I happen to know Mr. Anwar Kamal. He is a Pashtun with very good credentials, both at political as well as personal level.

Similarly, there are statements about Saifullahs which contain objectionable content. One of them states that “and all of the above their pakipied mother kalsoom saifullah marwat along with their marwat supporters are the ,,hater,,of pashtuns and pashtunkhwa”. Another statement says that “Kalsoom saifullah marwat voted 70 time in refrendum held in 40s for the support of Pakistan.” This too has been quoted without any reference and/or evidence. The honourable writer ought to refrain from making such indecent and inappropriate statement. Saifullah family is a highly respected family not only because of their industrial and business background, but also because of their historical background. Their mother, Begum Kulsum Saifullah Khan is a noble and humble lady respected by all well wishers as well as her opponents. This is no more than a hearsay that she voted 70 times in referendum. However, we must appreciate that she was and still is a supporter of Pakistan.

The writer with username “Aab-e-Hayat” has a balanced approach in expressing his views which are much appreciated.

We should shun the habit of tarnishing image of anyone by leveling false allegations as it will not serve us. We should behave very maturely. We still have great leaders and politicians amongst us. Our discussion should be informative, factual and purposeful. Unfortunately, this kind of attitude does exist at state level as well. For example, it was the state of Pakistan represented by General Musharraf who leveled false allegations publicly about our hero Dr. AQ Khan.

Truth will always prevail as it did prevail in the case of Dr. Khan who is still a great hero of every Pakistani but General Musharraf is damned by most of Pakistanis. Even the state power could not distort the fact, although all efforts were made to malign Dr. Khan.

I also request the moderator to keep reminding the writers that Pashtun Forums is a forum for literary and purposeful discussion. Criticism based on facts should be encouraged while leveling false allegations should be discouraged. This is how this forum will become a great place for discussing politics and suggest viable solution to the problems that our province as well as our beloved country are faced with.

LOL at hero Dr AQ Khan. Didnt he shame Pakistan by trying to sell Nuclear Equipment to Libya and Iran? Didnt the Iranian notice he was a CIA stooge.

Listen Khalid, Mushraff is not the first dictator in Pakistan's History, your fraud of a Nation was built by Dictators and Colonists.

When you are referring to Pakistanis, do you also include the IDP's who are beaten by your corrupted Police and forced to be oppressed through FCR!

How can Criticism against Pakistan be unbiased? Pakistan has shown itself as a supporter of Terrorism and a double dealer with only China being its friend.

Secondly the Saifullah brothers opposed the Re-naming of NWFP and are associated with the Punjabi Elite, they are just as traitorous as those Bigharata Pashtuns who sided with the mughals when they tried to exterminate the Pashtun people.

Majority of us here, are opposed to "Posh English writing Imran Khan types", Most of us here have experienced the double dealing hand of Pakistan, and most of us agree that the only option for Pashtun unity and stability is for Pakistan to wiped off the Atlas or turned to Jinnahpur.

What has moderators got to do with this, most of us Pashtuns are opposed to Pakistan, we hate Pakistan and her twisted way of turning the Pashtun region into a war zone for its strategical interests.

Go and Lecture hamid gul and on why his uncovered-daughter runs a coach business and on the other hand, he inspires to see every Afghan woman convered in a Burqa through violent means.

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

lol, so you think AFG is clean or was ever totally clean?

BLS is right, you need to be more even handed. you act as if KPK pashtuns are totally desified and lost their culture. well your totally wrong. There are a few stray individual and parties but thats also the case with pashtuns in AFG. Its all our collective struggle. Using words like "they" doesn't really help. You claim that you think pashtuns are one. then stop using words like "they".

Roara, Timbaktu, please could you edcuate "Graveyard-of-AntiPakhtunkhwa Pashtuns" on who the Peshawer Seven were and what did Afghan Kings do for the Pashtuns in Pakhtunkhwa, Every Pashtun has betrayed one another but the Afghan Monarchy was just as trecherous and betrayal was their usual custom.

Graveyard of broken trash, likes to always point the finger on Pakhtunkhwa for all the problems, when Pashtuns were pleeding for a Pashtunistan, or during the Socialist revolutions, there were Pashtuns in Afghanistan who were never interested until Daueed brought some motivation and light, however that went dim after a while.

"Graveyard of ill Knowledged" The issue of Pashtun Unification on the Official level was never heard of in Afghanistan, even when Pakistan went to war with India, Afghanistan stayed neutral, even when Faqir of Ipi rose the Flag of Pakhtunnistan in Tirah, the Afghan Government cutt his supplies and left him for the devils.

You need to read up and educate yourself little boy, the world is not what it seems. When America and Nato came to Afghanistan, Clerics and Leaders from Afghanistan visited the Darol Ul Haqqani in Pakistan and met with Pakistani Leaders to plan out a strategy to protect bin laden and the Taliban, goes to show the Pashtunistan issue was already dead due to Pakistans interferance and acceptance by Afghan government.

"Graveyard of People who dont know Logic" If the Afghans especially under Taliban were supportive of the unification of the Pashtuns, then how come Col Imam was given free access to Kandahar, why did the Afghans attack Commander Achakzai for slapping Col Imam, why was Babar allowed to go on hunting trips with Western Officials and Saudi Sheiks in Kandahar during the winters? where was the Pashtun unity there? how come Pashtuns were protecting Punjabi Militant groups such as LET? where was the Pashtunsitan issue there, if you knew Pakistan was so wrong, then how come your fellow countrymen gave them shelter?

"Graveyardoffantasies" ask yourself one very simple question, What if Nato and America did not attack the Taliban, would the Taliban fight for a Pashtunistan knowing they were close with the ISI and also attending Pakistan Military parades?

Watch what you say or blame, most of us here are intellects when it comes to Pashtun issues.

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Well, according to my friend from Pakhtunkhwa Marwat and Khattaks are the pro-establishment tribes and their favorites. Tribalism, the downside of Pashtuns, is very mcuh exhibited even in this thread, and just "as" enuciated in the official 'divide and rule' policy of the Pakistani government which they have inherited from the British era. It seems to be very successful, perhaps even for an inderterminated future. And it is these types who are more loyal to the king and than the king to himself. As long as loyal servants are there don't expect any real change to come about; the very pro anti-Pashtunkhwa stance of some of these people (as mentioned by Gadoonwal) are to be a major blockage in the way of Pashtun progress - not to mention reforms of for example FCR draconian colonialist rules in FATA that deprives them from their basic human rights.

By the way in my university there was a Marwat girl whose father was in the Paki army who was engaged with a Panjabi from the Paki military.

To be fair and not judgemental, Khattaks are the most Pro Pakistan tribe out there, and most of the Pakistani Soldiers who are Pashtuns tend to be Khattaks. They are one of the most Well-Off Tribes of the Pashtuns, especially when it comes to development and education and they are a favourite of Pakistan.

My uncle told me, when Pak Army units entered South Waziristan, most of them were Khattaks from Karak etc.

I have only met a few who are Nationalist and Oppose Pakistan, the large majority of them are Pro Establishment/Pakistan.

[ComradePashtun]

Dear ComradePashtun,

Kindly avoid indecent and/or abusive word, even if you extremely disagree with any of the forum members. No offence meant. I also request the forum administrator to take note of this.

I mean those words in very decent manner, I am a Pashtun and I have a whole magna-carta philosphy based on those words. We call a beghairat a beghairat, you are either that or you are not, that is how things work with Pashtun. Request what pleases you, and enjoy your stay.

[ComradePashtun]

OOO beghairatoo da angreez tala khwarooo.. tata wayam!!!

[ComradePashtun]

where is your melmastob you kabuli pathan? Atleast welcome the new member.

Pathana, things work straight with me. Har chata melmastoob hum sha nawi, kho Marwat ye pre poh ba nasi.

[Michin Khel]

Brother
like i mentioned to you before, there is no one Khan of the area. Different areas had different Khans, and there were a few main ones.

You ask for sources, there are a few sources namely:
The Bannu Gazateer of 1907 and Bannu Gazateer of 1884. Please look at under totzai chiefs.
Also the book 'the Marwats' by Sher Muhammad Mohmand.
Also Marwato Kasruna published by Abdul Rahim Majzoob Advocate
Also if you look at Bannu Gazateer of 1907, it mentions two totzai chiefs. One is Mohammad Ghazni Khel, and other the normal one. Mohammad Ghazni khel as mentioned by the Gazateer was created by the British, because Mohammad helped British when they were coming to Pezu. It mentions the hereditary Chiefs as Shadi Khan and his uncle Sherdil Khan ( great grand father of saifullahs).
Logically think about it, would the British support those who helped them or those who didnt. However, like other Khans such as anwar kamal family, naseer Muhammad family, the gazateer had to recognize the hereditary chiefs.
This can be seen in Bannu Gazateer of 1907. In Bannu Gazateer 1884, Pourdil Khan Raees is mentioned.

Coming to Marwato Khasaruna, Marwat War Ballards. The role of Mahabat Khan Ghazni Khel, Chief of Ghazni Khel are mentioned. His fight against the Wazirs, and Gandapurs, and also his fight with Midad Khel tribe is mentioned.
Midad Khel was one of the leading tribes, in fact leaders of Spin Gund Faction, Ghazi Khel and Essakhel were tor Gund. Spin Gunds were stronger before, but later on Tor Gund become more powerful.

Marwato Kasurana is written BY a MIDADHEL- (Sworn Enemy of Ghazni Khel).

Like i mentioned before, there was not only one Khan, there were 5-6 major Khans. As for politics, the family did not enter it before 1937, when the elections were held.

The Marwats written by Sher Muhammad Mohmand (who is not marwat) has given account of the entire tribe, and mentions all the tribes. so you can read there.

Anwar Kamal family was also very educated and influential families, and held many senior posts in British time, and after British time. It is good that both families have reconciled, i think this is good for Pakistan as well Marwats.
In fact i have heard Anwar kamal khan himself praise the saifullah family for its development work, and it being renowned.

Also as you maybe mina khel, you will be aware that Khan Gulham Dawood Khan (relative of Anwar Kamal Khan) was a senior burecrat, who was very influential. He had many proposals for his daughters from Pro British people within and outside Marwat tribes. He was known for his honour and integrity. When he was AC Peshawar (i am not sure but i think it was this post). he refused to fire at students on British command, and said he would rather resign. He gave his daughter to Ghazni Khel, the son of Khan Sahib Faizullah Khan.

Lastly it does not matter, who is influential before or after; as long as they come from the good family. If tomorrow Begu Khel family becomes most influential tribe, it does not mean, they were not influential before; probably less so, but still notable.

But it is people like Malik Imran etc, who are not from the marwat aristocracy, and that is something to be noted.

Please do not hold grudges against people.

badi da detailed malamato la para daira manana. I asked from some another people of lakki and they have confirmed it that saifullahs are indeed geniune khans.

[Toramana]

^ I know some people named Saifullah from Ghazni Khel in Lakki Marwat. They are a political family and also have shares in big companies like Mobilink. Two of them study with me in London. They are good people and true Pashtuns.

Saifullahs are an industrialist family that have 21 companies on the Karachi stock market. Salim Saifullah, Hamayun Saifullah, Javed Saifullah(not sure about this name), etc. are main actors in that family. I have had some interaction with them and have found them to be traditional Pashtuns with an aristocratic aura . They are good hospitable Pashtuns in individual-to-individual dealing and social relations.

Politically, they have looked after their family interest well and have taken advantage of the proximity to the ruling Punjabi-Mahajar elite and the British before them (through centralist and rightest politics).

They opposed NWFP renaming as KPK. The Mobilink thing about them is true.

[Toramana]

Furthermore, I will not call them a well-wisher of Pashtuns. They have proven to be hostile to Pashtun interests at best and have been blamed to be opportunistically looking after their family business interest and well-being at the cost of even Marwats (who they have been blamed to have lolly-poped with low-cadre services in Pakistani state instead of any good developmental project for the Marwat area that would truly empower Marwat people).

As for Kalsum Saifullah having voted 70 times in the referendom in 1947. This is what she is said to have admitted herself.

The one-unit and the confescation of the water share and hydro-electric power resources of Pakhtunkhwa by the Punjab had active support from Saifullahs and their relatives the Khattaks (Yousaf Khattak, etc.) from Karak.

[Toramana]

My friend,
dont you think Bacha Khan's ancestors had cordial ties with the British? Of course Khan Bahram Khan, who i believe was his father had cordial ties.

The Wali Khan family made full use of british education etc, and you are saying Marwat Khans sold out?

Yes Wali Khan did struggle for independence , but not less than Marwat Chiefs. Justice Khan Habibullah khan Meena khel fought staunchly for independence. So did Barrister Khan Saifullah Khan. Both went to jail in indepdence movement against the British.

so those who fought for independence are traitors?

Bacha Khan and his family and their struggle are not even comparable to what Saifullahs and other pro-British and pro-Punjab Pashtun elite did to Pashtuns. Yes, Bacha Khan and his descendents got English education but struggled for the right and identity of their people. They could have sold themselves for much higher price to British Raj and then their heir the Mahajar-Punjabi ruling class like other collaborators but they didn't do that. That is why they have wider respect.