The question of an independent Khorasan state —Musa Khan Jalalzai

[ScimitarXEdge]

Scmitar,

Deluded deesi, Afghanistan bears it's existance in struggle against imperialsm. It's history is marked by this. Any time Afghanistan was able to strike back against imperialism it has done so. If anything, Afghanistan has been a victim of Imperialism. What freaking history have you been reading?

All childish insults and perojatives aside; can you show me a single document from the time of Ahmad Shah Baba where he declares the name Afghanistan for his Dominion. I do know he mentions Pashtunkhwah, but he never calls it his authortive dominion. By the way I'm not sure what it has anything to do with being Desi

Last I checked, my dad is from Afghanistan, and Khidr is a Tajik from Afghanistan.


The history I'm reading is the "not based on ethnofascist ignorance and self delusion Vol. I"

Afghanistan has been a victim of imperialism, but the namesake and central governments have been in cahoots with Imperialism since not long after Ahmad Shah Baba had passed on.

Who did Shah Shuja al Mulk, the Shah of "Afghanistan" make a deal with for keeping Muslim lands, mainly inhabited by Pashtuns and other Muslims to be keep them under territorial control as long as he had the "official throne".

Here's a guess, One of them dance Bhangra, the other of them believes the sun never set on their empire.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Hahahah, da Pukhto dai ghatha likalai da...pa Arabai aow Pukhto jabo kai dair faraq dai...

ta mata waye chi zema pakhto gada wada da aw wrumbai ta kho wayalai dai chi "ma khugo" yaw variant dai. lol maghz di wrak shwoh wallah.

"faraq" is an Arabic word, by the way it means difference or distinction. The actual pashto word would be biltoon.

and don't come back and pretend you did that on purpose. You just exposed how "Arabized" you are congrats.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The only imprial design and off-shoot was construction Pakistan, while only defencive measures to protect impire and imperialism was was to encroach on Afghanistan. Infact the Durand line was rather defecive measure against Afghanistan and Pashtuns than anything else. Imperialism failed twice to annex Afghanistan in to the shame that you Pakis are product of.

Please explain why Shah Al Mulk made a deal with Auckland and Ra***** Singh?

[Nick]

All childish insults and perojatives aside; can you show me a single document from the time of Ahmad Shah Baba where he declares the name Afghanistan for his Dominion. I do know he mentions Pashtunkhwah, but he never calls it his authortive dominion. By the way I'm not sure what it has anything to do with being Desi

Last I checked, my dad is from Afghanistan, and Khidr is a Tajik from Afghanistan.


The history I'm reading is the "not based on ethnofascist ignorance and self delusion Vol. I"

Afghanistan has been a victim of imperialism, but the namesake and central governments have been in cahoots with Imperialism since not long after Ahmad Shah Baba had passed on.

Who did Shah Shuja al Mulk, the Shah of "Afghanistan" make a deal with for keeping Muslim lands, mainly inhabited by Pashtuns and other Muslims to be keep them under territorial control as long as he had the "official throne".

Here's a guess, One of them dance Bhangra, the other of them believes the sun never set on their empire.

All childish insults and perojatives aside; can you show me a single document from the time of Ahmad Shah Baba where he declares the name Afghanistan for his Dominion. I do know he mentions Pashtunkhwah, but he never calls it his authortive dominion. By the way I'm not sure what it has anything to do with being Desi

Rising such questions would not help, I once remember Shia Afghanistani Qazalbash once asked me in 2002 to prove him that Pata Khazana was not fake or if any documents that are found that prove Hababi did not made it himself. A question which I had no answer to, but in 2003 the founder of Tajikam Gul Agha once asked me the same question, I was speechless. However I found some documents in A farsi book that make a partial reference to Pata Khazana dated from 1800s again he did not believe me. Pata Khazana became the focus and everyone pointing fingers even Pakistani ISI political groups from NWFP made harsh comments against it. Finally the end of that year in 2004 a source was found in Europe modern Hungery that years before in their historical database was a book translated in European Language long before English was even known. Along with pages from original source.

My point is that you are not the only one asking this question anyone not informed like Shia Ghul Agha were also asking. Again you are seeking for information then you shell do your own research. By looking for native sources not something you read from London Post LoL or some wiki, Iranica crap and other falsehood sources.

Last I checked, my dad is from Afghanistan, and Khidr is a Tajik from Afghanistan.

Wow He is Tajik or Tajikistani whatever, cause of his Shai mentality. I always thought he was a Shai. But again makes my point is that there are 40 million Pashtu speakers world wide and they all believe he was the founder, however the most educated Pashtuns believe Afghanistan was there before Islam some put the date to 1500 BCE some to 2000 BCE and some to mythical Afghan king Yama 3000 BCE, its all about information and what you know or what you believe in. I was argueing with a Pashtun from NWFP last week in the friday mosque who believed that Pashtuns are Jews and that they will rule the world and that prophacy of Mahdi will come true from Afghanistan. I asked how he came to such conclusion and he said "Remember we are also Israelits some 1200 BCE Afghana the son of jewish king came to modern Afghanisatan, many jews came and later these children and the jews of Afghanistan supported Cyrus to finish off Assyrians, same way we will rule this time invade India and convert them to Islam" LOL I was cracking cause Israelite became Israelite after their defeat not before, and many tribes went missing, but I controlled myself. He combined modern Shia BS with Islamic sources mixed with Islamic myth and modern ISI crackhead Zaid Hamid

I mean he knew something but his claim of having Cyrus on the Afghan side was just too BS, as well as another Afghan invasion into India to convert all of India into Islam, I believe that prophacy has already became true some long time and that would apply to modern Pakistan since indus river is in Pakistan not India.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Rising such questions would not help, I once remember Shia Afghanistani Qazalbash once asked me in 2002 to prove him that Pata Khazana was not fake or if any documents that are found that prove Hababi did not made it himself. A question which I had no answer to, but in 2003 the founder of Tajikam Gul Agha once asked me the same question, I was speechless. However I found some documents in A farsi book that make a partial reference to Pata Khazana dated from 1800s again he did not believe me. Pata Khazana became the focus and everyone pointing fingers even Pakistani ISI political groups from NWFP made harsh comments against it. Finally the end of that year in 2004 a source was found in Europe modern Hungery that years before in their historical database was a book translated in European Language long before English was even known. Along with pages from original source.

My point is that you are not the only one asking this question anyone not informed like Shia Ghul Agha were also asking. Again you are seeking for information then you shell do your own research. By looking for native sources not something you read from London Post LoL or some wiki, Iranica crap and other falsehood sources.


Wow He is Tajik or Tajikistani whatever, cause of his Shai mentality. I always thought he was a Shai. But again makes my point is that there are 40 million Pashtu speakers world wide and they all believe he was the founder, however the most educated Pashtuns believe Afghanistan was there before Islam some put the date to 1500 BCE some to 2000 BCE and some to mythical Afghan king Yama 3000 BCE, its all about information and what you know or what you believe in. I was argueing with a Pashtun from NWFP last week in the friday mosque who believed that Pashtuns are Jews and that they will rule the world and that prophacy of Mahdi will come true from Afghanistan. I asked how he came to such conclusion and he said "Remember we are also Israelits some 1200 BCE Afghana the son of jewish king came to modern Afghanisatan, many jews came and later these children and the jews of Afghanistan supported Cyrus to finish off Assyrians, same way we will rule this time invade India and convert them to Islam" LOL I was cracking cause Israelite became Israelite after their defeat not before, and many tribes went missing, but I controlled myself. He combined modern Shia BS with Islamic sources mixed with Islamic myth and modern ISI crackhead Zaid Hamid

I mean he knew something but his claim of having Cyrus on the Afghan side was just too BS, as well as another Afghan invasion into India to convert all of India into Islam, I believe that prophacy has already became true some long time and that would apply to modern Pakistan since indus river is in Pakistan not India.

Nick we know each other from other forums; I was once just like you but then I did research. and found Ahmad Shah Abdali called himself the King of Khurasaan, and not the king of Afghanistan. This created a paradigm shift

obviously people like Gul Agha are twirps who use the term Khurasaan for Tajik Nationalism.; But the term itself is not sullied by their agenda.


Writing excuses for why there is no document where the word Afghanistan doesn't exist in any documents of Abdali does not change the fact this is true. No such document exists. And no I don't need to do the research, I already did it. The BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Nick while you are allowed to make mentions of history and fact, please refrain from insulting other's background. Manana
This goes to others as well, refrain from insults.

[Azmal]

Pakistan and other "stans" including, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Ahmaqistan, and Afghanistan are all red herrings, Imperially constructed designs to manipulate, exploit and divert asia. The only friends of Pakistan are the ones who play into the Imperial Illusion of an independent nefarious entity out to subvert other ethnic groups for their own.

The conflict and controversy between regional imperially manufactured Nation States like Pakistan or even as Khidr points out, Afghanistan is to perpetuate the illusion that Our Enemies such as Imperialist societies like america who fund Pakistan and Afghanistan, are our "friends" but the manufactured State entities; who's people are just simple folks living their lives, albeit many have been brainwashed by patriotic dogma; are our enemies. All to keep us fighting the Imperial war of conquest, subjugation and exploitation. The U.S. aren't helping, they're using people from all sides, all just to subjugate the region and make it perpetually dependent and exploitable.

On contraire, present Afghanistan---status as buffer state signifies what was left of Afghan empire drawn by blood of her own people… we did not gain our state as result of servitude to Saheeb--you Arabian countries or P**kistan.

[Azmal]

yeah I'm tired of these deceitful and treacherous Traitors and Scam Artists like Toramana and MI6/Mazloomyar/Khara-de-gheen and Azmal always trying to manipulate ethnicity and being Pashtun to divide Muslims and keep the Imperialists in Power.


MI6 and Toramana both exposed it themselves; that they'd rather see Pashtuns exterminate each other than to see the British or Americans lose their Imperialist Hegemony; if that doesn't expose their treachery, what does?

Zoboomafoo,
Ultimately, we nationalist happen to be at war with people who refuse to respect man’s right to liberty and have seen the cost of appeasing this global menace. The idiotic notion behind a Huntingtonian “clash of civilizations” mindset most Arabs like yourself or Pukis have unrealistic hopes for, will be taken to their graves.

[Azmal]

hahahah, da pukhto dai ghatha likalai da...pa arabai aow pukhto jabo kai dair faraq dai...

lol.

[ScimitarXEdge]

On contraire, present Afghanistan---status as buffer state signifies what was left of Afghan empire drawn by blood of her own people… we did not gain our state as result of servitude to Saheeb--you Arabian countries or P**kistan.

Yeah drawn by the blood of her people BY Kings whos served the British, the Russians and many others.

Tell us ....who did Shah Shuja Al Mulk (heheh) sign a treaty with? You Slaves of the british Raj always avoid this question.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Zoboomafoo,
Ultimately, we nationalist happen to be at war with people who refuse to respect man’s right to liberty and have seen the cost of appeasing this global menace. The idiotic notion behind a Huntingtonian “clash of civilizations” mindset most Arabs like yourself or Pukis have unrealistic hopes for, will be taken to their graves.

You Nationalists hijack the idea of Patriotism and Nationalism to do things that betray and treacherously harm the people you claim to represent; you use Nationalism as a conjob for some slavish minded manufactured idea of society; something counter instinctual, against human nature and human well being itself. Najibullah and those ilk are your representatives

You will never respect man's right to liberty because you have no idea what liberty is; namely because you do not know man's connection to nature nor the purpose of man's faculties; only under this context can liberty be known. As long as you're against Nature, you're against Liberty.

The Clash of civilizations is real; Again you hijack the concept of Ethnicity and Ethnocentrism just as your British Raj Masters taught you. Good Ghulam, you are ; but bad for Pashtuns, and well Muslims in general. You fail to realize this Ethnic based animosity is itself a form of Clash of Civilizations; but it was the tactic of Divide and Rule. Alas; I know you're aware of its reality, Ethnic babble is of course the diversion tactic to shift focus away from the Greater Evil and Bigger Picture and focus on manufactured squabbles that they set in front of us.

Is it any wonder that on Afghansite forums under the name Pakhpaloo; you openly admitted to having to learn Pashto by buying books from Amazon; because you're working from the OUTSIDE; trying to steal the sympathies of people based on their native identity to steer them for the Imperial 21st Century Great Game.

You may have fooled yourself and a few people; but believe me, people like you are exactly the sort of House Slave who gets put on the front lines while your Masters stay safe.

[Nick]

Nick while you are allowed to make mentions of history and fact, please refrain from insulting other's background. Manana
This goes to others as well, refrain from insults.

Sorry didn't get that, where and when did I insult?

[Nick]

Nick we know each other from other forums; I was once just like you but then I did research. and found Ahmad Shah Abdali called himself the King of Khurasaan, and not the king of Afghanistan. This created a paradigm shift

obviously people like Gul Agha are twirps who use the term Khurasaan for Tajik Nationalism.; But the term itself is not sullied by their agenda.


Writing excuses for why there is no document where the word Afghanistan doesn't exist in any documents of Abdali does not change the fact this is true. No such document exists. And no I don't need to do the research, I already did it. The BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU.

obviously people like Gul Agha are twirps who use the term Khurasaan for Tajik Nationalism.; But the term itself is not sullied by their agenda.

I am glad you pointed out, just to let you know I am also admir the areas and complexity of these Eastern Ajami areas, often shorten with mentioning of Khorasan especially early Arabic sources. But now most of those I know around me have this unfriendly feeling towards this name. Although as we know the application of this Islamic name applies to much larger areas that would include many religions such as Hindus, Zardasthian, and Kafirs etc etc, as well as many Races.

No such document exists. And no I don't need to do the research, I already did it. The BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU

You see brother Afghanistan today as you are well informed its a mountainous area, mountains covering almost 80% of Afghanistan, as well as 60% of Western Pakistan, in fact the most mountainous country in Asia as we know today its so difficult to get around Afghanistan, or even with modern technology difficulties of building proper roads. These mountains gave Afghanistan a unique character, so much that even in many languages such as Armenian the word "Avgan" simplified into their dictionary as "Mountain dweller".

Looking for one source would no help, the tribes within Afghanistan are found all over Afghanistan as well as into occupied Afghan land and small towns and cities by its neighbours. ie Turkistan, Iran, and India (Modern Pakistan).

For me its not really important if Afghanistan did existed during Ahmad Shah baba, nor did not.

However as far as I know the constitution, laws and order as well as modern concept of nationhood came abouts because of him and specially his son Timur Shah, and as we move towards mid-19th century the British intervention and so on many changed had come abouts, to modernize the nation but the application of name was not donated by the British, this is also a fact which is the reason people makes falsehood claims over existing the name.



I don't care if Ahmad Shah Baba mistakenly or in Persian writing called it Khorasan because formally to the Islamic world the Eastern areas would always be Khorasan. However not in form of nation-state.



I would be glad if Ahmad Shah Durrani did not mentioned "Afghanistan" historically, especially since he had land of non-Afghan which means beyond dry deserts even unto Karman, and Mazandaran, up to Modern Delhi as well as installing puppets in Greater Azerbijan in Western Iran, puppet in South Asia (Hindustan) that would cover the rest of India the ruler still remains as “Mughal” having informal control over Samaragan, Turkmanistan, and freeing Amir of Bukahar to rule his kingdom but still remain loyal to him, and so It really doesn't make sense for him to call any land beyond Indus river an "Afghan" and nor any land beyond Oxus or any land beyond deserts of Lut or Kafar. Because then the application of the word "Afghan" would be meaningless. Afghan a racial term applies to all of those tribes who consider themselves Afghan. Just because some Wikipedia gave up connecting them to Jews, Indians and Persians, now adapted “turkifiction” of their roots does not mean they are Persian, Jews, Turk or Indian. If they claim historical identity and claim as Afghans then they are Afghans. As Ustad Mujadidi who are originally Iraqis and now according to him they are some 90,000 people and they are all Afghans, and mixed with Afghan because they came in Afghanistan some 1200 years ago.

You have to remember Durrani was an Empire and pure Pashtu empire where as other early Afghan empire accepted "Dari" as national language, even Ahmad Shah did respect Dari, but his administration was Pashtu, fallowed up to Abdur Rahman Khan and once again Dari came back as an official language.



If someone wants to argue over the exact name "Afghanistan" such as one Iranian who just like you once argued "Afghan plus Stan"

This was in 2001 or 2002 and I was not really that much informed as I am right now that the word "stan" is directly from Reg Vada and was mentioned many times by the Hindu sources and no such Iranian book modern Farsi or older Parthian made such mentioning. Anyways he said "Stan" is Persian you people took it from us and because you are half Persians, that is why your country is called "Afghanistan" by the British. As I did not had enough historical knowledge like Mr. Jalalzai in the above article I accepted his claim and for someone like Jalalzai less informed as I thought I was very informed I really did believed in such BS Iranica crap and lies.





Ok now someone should point out to the Racial word "Afghan" then please look for some 5000 years old Verdic word "Asfigyan", 4000 years old Gathas mentioned "Argyan", 3500 years old Sanskirti word "Upaganstana", Ashvagan was mentioned some 3000 years ago, as well as details of its transformation from Ashvgan into Avagan ie Ast Haya Panani source's of grammical and translation of Reg Vadas dated to be from some area some 2800 years ago. Many other versions such as Atarvaweda clearly describes in details of some of the tribes as we know still exists in Afghanistan, also mentions them to be Asfigyan, as well later sources either Chinese, Greeks, Indus or Persian clearly mentions often a nationwide from Eastern Iranian deserts to Indus and from Amo (Oxus) south up to Arabian sea.



The question over its historical name should not be concern. If people wants sources it will be found.

“Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances.” Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!"

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/m...016%26ct%3D199

[ScimitarXEdge]

The question over its historical name should not be concern. If people wants sources it will be found.

“Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances.” Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!"

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/m...016%26ct%3D199

well done Nick; this is some interesting and meritable material; but you have to take this into context as well. He's not describing a Kingdom or Society; in fact I Stressed this same point earlier when I mentioned that Babur(or perhaps some other Mughal) also used the word Afghanistan, but his usage of the term Afghanistan was descriptive and not Political State Entity. Just like we used to refer to Nuristan as "Kafiristan" because they were infidels in that region for a long time, there was no Political State Entity like "The Kingdom of Kafiristan" . It's important to discern linguistic usages with formal political ones.

This is the same case for even Khurasaan which was once merely a reference to a general region, later became identified with an actual Political Entity

[Nick]

The Problem with many of Afghanistan's population is Education, those who argue over such stuff as Mr. ISI Jalalzai explains are all do to lack of Information. Many years of war, as well as Dark ages of Sleeply Zahir Shah for keeping his people uneducated are now cursing him and his Barakzai roots. No offence to anyone from that ethnic group ie Mahmadzai/Barakzai etc, or anyone respecting Zahir Shah (As I don't like him personally, I have my own reasons for that) I am not the only one, nor the as these attacks comes from every direction and every tribe, blaiming the the off spring of Abdur Rahman Khan for all of these crisis which we face today.