Pakistan

[BLS_1919v2.0]

fzpz the right to claim the land of Pashtunkhwa and a proper referendum were legitimate demands. It is highly hypocritical that Pakistan went through three wars over Kashmir (justifying it under many things) yet do not accord the same to others. It is either fair or not...you can't eat the cake and have it too.

The policies of Pakistan vis a vis the Pashtuns are not the same as the others..and when stating such it is basically trying to hide the issue under the carpet. Like my relative says Pakistan is not a state rather a failed corporation under a set few on the brink of breaking. Pashtuns haven't benefited from it and have no real future in it. Regarding the policies of Pakistan, they have the right to justify them, just as a Pashtun has the right to go against them as they have had massively damaged the social and political framework of Pashtuns. This hasn't been the case for the other "pakistanis", so lets call them like we see them.

UP...don't over generalize history, there are many things that happened during those events that you mentioned that hardly constitute victories.

[roadrunner]

fzpz the right to claim the land of Pashtunkhwa and a proper referendum were legitimate demands. It is highly hypocritical that Pakistan went through three wars over Kashmir (justifying it under many things) yet do not accord the same to others. It is either fair or not...you can't eat the cake and have it too.

Kashmir was to be decided legally by the Instrument of Partition. One thing led to another, and plebiscite was to determine who it went to.

The NWFP was to be decided by a small vote. This vote in my opinion was strange in that it was only one particular region. But anyway, that was the legal aspect of it. So NWFP went to Pakistan. That was legal.

What happened in Kashmir was illegal, what happened in NWFP was legal. But a referendum would also be a good thing.

The policies of Pakistan vis a vis the Pashtuns are not the same as the others..and when stating such it is basically trying to hide the issue under the carpet. Like my relative says Pakistan is not a state rather a failed corporation under a set few on the brink of breaking. Pashtuns haven't benefited from it and have no real future in it. Regarding the policies of Pakistan, they have the right to justify them, just as a Pashtun has the right to go against them as they have had massively damaged the social and political framework of Pashtuns. This hasn't been the case for the other "pakistanis", so lets call them like we see them.

UP...don't over generalize history, there are many things that happened during those events that you mentioned that hardly constitute victories.

Why have the Pashtuns massively suffered under Pakistan?

If it were not for Pakistan's Pakhtunkhwa region, what would happen to Afghan refugees?

[fzpz]

fzpz the right to claim the land of Pashtunkhwa and a proper referendum were legitimate demands. It is highly hypocritical that Pakistan went through three wars over Kashmir (justifying it under many things) yet do not accord the same to others. It is either fair or not...you can't eat the cake and have it too.

The policies of Pakistan vis a vis the Pashtuns are not the same as the others..and when stating such it is basically trying to hide the issue under the carpet. Like my relative says Pakistan is not a state rather a failed corporation under a set few on the brink of breaking. Pashtuns haven't benefited from it and have no real future in it. Regarding the policies of Pakistan, they have the right to justify them, just as a Pashtun has the right to go against them as they have had massively damaged the social and political framework of Pashtuns. This hasn't been the case for the other "pakistanis", so lets call them like we see them.

UP...don't over generalize history, there are many things that happened during those events that you mentioned that hardly constitute victories.

You seem confused as to what is legally recognized internationally as a disputed territory and one that is not. Also as to which ones calls for a plebiscite and most importantly, where is there an indigenous and active movement for separatism. I'll leave it up to your genius to figure out which one is which. Please no conspiracy theories regarding rehman not knowing what he signed or that the treaty expired after 100 years or that the pakhtuns of Pakistan want a seperate state (all evidence points otherwise, they are increasingly of the (popular view on pashtunforums about isi/army) narrative of right-wing Pakistanis.

Pashtuns haven't benefited from Afghanistan either. Maybe (nationalist/communists/sons of najibullah) pashtuns should make a break with their disastrous policies? certainly the pashtuns in afghanistan are incensed about Pakistan's policies, and they have every right to be. It would be a blatantly false assertion that Pakhtuns of Pakistan are 'going against' the state of Pakistan, when as i've said, they are more and more in agreement with their fellow countrymen. There is no insurrection against being part of Pakistan. In the future they all will fully integrate themselves with Pakistan. Too many interdependence, common interests and history. As it is now, the ones blabbering about anything will be confined to their keyboards.

It does not matter what your relatives thinks, we all think a lot about our opinions.

The reality is that more and more pakhtuns are joining the taliban and afghan resistence who are isi/army/ghq/punjos proxies hell bent on destabilizing afghanistan for the benefit of the punjab army. Wrora i tell you, the punjabi isi has so much control over the pakhtuns that they even can make them blow themselves up. The isi also brainwashed the afghanistanis to fight the liberators who bring all kinds of good benefit like secularism and atheism and evangelical missionaries. In the past they stopped the afghanistanis from getting the full benefit of communism. Of course if it wasn't for them communism would have prevailed and law and bar would have been all afghanistan. The stamps, hats, and flags, and songs would have some meaning. We could have also added balochistan to afghanistan because i said so, which would give us access to the ocean. Vile creatures the pakis are.

[fzpz]

As a fact, everyone knows that Pakistan and the US backed the Afghans against the Soviets, but lets not go into this educational, theoretical, hyperbolic list of who exactly the Taliban are??

When the British invaded Afghanistan, and were subsequently defeated on all occasions, who do we attribute the Afghan victories to??

Lets even go further back. Who do we attribute Mirwais Neeka's defeat and invasion of Persia to? Did some foreign agent tell him that he must kick Persia out of Pashtun lands? Bottom line, unlike others, pashtuns will never accept anyone trying to rule them. This is the most simple answer.

So then, why do some here even question today's Taliban in Afghanistan. You have their leader Omar Hotak refuse to recognize the Durrand line, how is he touting Pakistan's interests??

And lastly, what do you call a man who stands and defends his homeland? Todays Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan are part of much wider nationalistic movements, and most people are naturally defending their homeland against invaders, as anyone else would do. Nothing peculiar about that.

The reason they have become so formidable is because there are no other moderate groups that are opposing the foreigners. On the contrary, the ones who wish to 'build' the country lack any spine to stand and tell the foreigners to get out, and end the failing war.

This is the reason the Taliban influence has spread nearly all over Afghanistan.

Admin Khan,

You need to have an internal dialogue with your fellow Afghanistani Pashtuns about the Taliban. Some (actually most) say that the Afghan resistence is doing what any human being would do if their homeland was invaded. Others say that they are all just stooges of the pakpunjos. The former would make more sense.

By the way, if the taliban were part of the larger 'nationalist' movement in Pakistan, they would've named themselves something other than the Tehreet e Taliban PAKISTAN. The Pakhtuns of Pakistan seem to be busy taking over Pakistan instead of seperating from Pakistan.

[salahuddin]

You will never find a country where the police and lawyers dance around a murderer who shot a politician who referred to the Blasmphaey Laws as "kala qaqoon".

Plus you will not find a country on this planet whos president and prime minister did not have the gutts to attend the funeral of a killed colleague,because they fear the Clerics would kill them.

My above two points, shows what Pakistan is. It is a country that was born without an Identity, born into an Ideology that has destroyed it and will soon crumble to bits due to its arrogance and its support of Islamic Based Terrorists.

Pakistan is the only country in the world, that has nuclear bombs and Politicians who invent hadiths of Pakistan Army conquering India as fore told by some Prophet 1000 years ago.

Pakistan is the only country where a retired 80 year old general gets as much land that could shelter 4000 people.

Only One province beign Punjab, steals the water and electricity from its Minority provinces and return them the favor with high taxes.

Pakistan needs a Islamic dominated government in Afghanistan, because its very easy for Pakistan to use the Islam card to prevent a Nationalist take over.

Pakistan needs to hold onto Pakhtunkhwa because of the resouces.

Pakhtunkhaw which supplies around over 70 percent of electricity to Punjab, while the whole Pakhtunkhwa probably only uses the same amount of electrcity as Lahore.

Look at history as an example, throughout the birth of Pakistan, whenever there is an opposition towards Pashtuns progress as a nation, those opposition parties always end up being supported by Pakistan.

Get the hint/

[Bengal_Tiger]

The Bangalis? What did they do to them?

It was the Bangalis that backstabbed Pakistan as far as i know. Even when they'd won by fighting shoulder to shoulder with India, they manipulated history and falsified accounts of genocide against them. Explain if you would?

Bengalis defeated your US backed NA-PAKistan army, which was also supported by China, Iran and the Arab world.

We smashed your army of rapists and terrorists. Why?

Because Bengalis, the Muslim majority in West Pakistan were prevented from having the democratically elected leader of Pakistan in to power. The NA-PAKistan army rejected the wishes of its people...yes Bengalis were the majority and WE were the main ones responsible for creating Pakistan.

So the NA-PAKistan army backstabbed its own people by turning against them and murdering them.

You Punjabis sided with Sikh Punjabis to conquer Muslim Pakhtunkhwa and give it to Sikh control, we worked to defend ourselves from a racist British-created state and have a Muslim run Bangladesh, even Mujib had alcohol banned.

Hard cheese traitor.

You Punjabi traitors have been boiling with anger at your painful and shameful defeat at our hands, it sucks to be a loser.

But hey that's life...Punjabi = loser.

[graveyardofempires]

Blind leading blind

[Bengal_Tiger]

From a previous post:

The irony of this is this is what the Punjabis told their soldiers about Bengalis and the Mukti Bahini, that Bengalis fighting against the Shia regime of Yahya Khan and Bhutto was actually a fight against Islam and that Bengalis were recieving help from non-Muslim India.

This propaganda has been deeply engrained in Pakistani society with Pakistanis considering Bengalis traitors, enemies of Islam, and having essentially fought against Islam in 1971.

For them Bengalis helped Hindus against a "Muslim" army and this was something so outrageous and sacrilegous, that Bengalis are a shameful, treacherous race and are not even Muslim.

This is a widespread mentality amongst many Pakistanis, however this is of course nothing more than a product of a military-security establishment filling an ignorant and illiterate population with propaganda.

1. The quarrel was a quarrel between two sets of Muslims, Bengalis and the Pakistani establishment (the PPP and the Islamabad junta).

2. Pakistan recieved support from non-Muslim America and China to kill Muslim Bengalis, Bengalis recieved support from India.

3. Even though the Pakistanis recieved support from non-Muslims to kill Muslims in East Pakistan, such things have happened many times in history:

a - Spanish Muslim statelets often sided with Christian Spanish kingdoms against fellow Muslims due to power struggles.

b - Punjabi soldiers fought with the British against the Bengali/Indian jihad of 1857 to restore Mughal rule.

c - There were many Punjabi "Muslims" who fought in the Sikh army of Punjabi despot, Ranjeet Singh and such Punjabi "Muslim" soldiers played a part in putting Muslim Pekhawar under non-Muslim Sikh rule

"His Mussulman Najibs rejected the appeals of their Hindustani, Afghan and Pathan co-religionists to crusade against the ‘infidel’ and instead helped to liquidate the crusaders. The year Ranjit Singh died, it was his Muslim troops led by colonel Sheikh Basswan that crossed the Khyber pass and carried Ranjit’s colors through the streets of Kabul in the victory parade."

http://wondersofpakistan.wordpress.c...-ranjit-singh/

So the "Muslim" Punjabis refused to listen to the Indian and Pashtun Muslims and fight against Ranjit Singh and it was "Muslim" Punjabi soldiers who fought for the Kafir Ranjit Singh and killed other Muslims.

So Punjabis allied with Sikhs to kill Muslims and put Muslims (Pashtuns) under direct Sikh rule.

Bengalis defeated a tyrannical regime to live freely in their own homeland and create an independent Muslim state and not control by some Sikh Punjabi warlord.

Also the TTP consider the Pakistan army as an apostate army because they the Pakistan army are working with non-Muslim America, to kill Muslims and fight against "Islam" (TTP version).

Also the anti-Qaddafi rebels and their Gulf Arab allies are working with non-Muslim America and "betraying" the Muslim government of Qaddafi, a tyrannical ruler who oppressed his people as did Yahya Khan did to Pakistanis (majority-Bengali).

So anyway loser...Dhalkor-runner or Bhangra-runner and to your Dhaalkhor, Bhangra jee, Sardar jee, Punjabi, Heera mandi buddies on here such as Luffy Singh, Talal Singh...

sucks to be a Punjabi...sucks to be a loser....

Bengalis have defeated and humiliated Punjabis....Pashtun Muslims, Balochi Muslims, Sindhi Muslims and Urdu-speaking Muslims all hold Bengalis in respect for this achievement....even your American buddies and the Zionist Jew Henry Kissinger couldn't save your Heera mandi bacon in 1971....lolzzzzz!



Zionist Henry Kissinger on the left, who tried to help his buddies the dhaal-khor Sardar jee losers of the Punjabi NA-PAKistan army in 1971....only to be SMASHED by the Muslim generals of the Bengali liberation army, Colonel Osmani, Zia ur Rahman, Khaled Musharraf and others...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....sucks to be a sardar...ROFL!

[BLS_1919v2.0]

You seem confused as to what is legally recognized internationally as a disputed territory and one that is not. Also as to which ones calls for a plebiscite and most importantly, where is there an indigenous and active movement for separatism. I'll leave it up to your genius to figure out which one is which. Please no conspiracy theories regarding rehman not knowing what he signed or that the treaty expired after 100 years or that the pakhtuns of Pakistan want a seperate state (all evidence points otherwise, they are increasingly of the (popular view on pashtunforums about isi/army) narrative of right-wing Pakistanis.

Pashtuns haven't benefited from Afghanistan either. Maybe (nationalist/communists/sons of najibullah) pashtuns should make a break with their disastrous policies? certainly the pashtuns in afghanistan are incensed about Pakistan's policies, and they have every right to be. It would be a blatantly false assertion that Pakhtuns of Pakistan are 'going against' the state of Pakistan, when as i've said, they are more and more in agreement with their fellow countrymen. There is no insurrection against being part of Pakistan. In the future they all will fully integrate themselves with Pakistan. Too many interdependence, common interests and history. As it is now, the ones blabbering about anything will be confined to their keyboards.

It does not matter what your relatives thinks, we all think a lot about our opinions.

The reality is that more and more pakhtuns are joining the taliban and afghan resistence who are isi/army/ghq/punjos proxies hell bent on destabilizing afghanistan for the benefit of the punjab army. Wrora i tell you, the punjabi isi has so much control over the pakhtuns that they even can make them blow themselves up. The isi also brainwashed the afghanistanis to fight the liberators who bring all kinds of good benefit like secularism and atheism and evangelical missionaries. In the past they stopped the afghanistanis from getting the full benefit of communism. Of course if it wasn't for them communism would have prevailed and law and bar would have been all afghanistan. The stamps, hats, and flags, and songs would have some meaning. We could have also added balochistan to afghanistan because i said so, which would give us access to the ocean. Vile creatures the pakis are.

fzpz I am not confused at all. The referendum was rigged and the voting method was suspect. There are books written on this regard (and no not just wali khan). You are right Bacha Khan's movement or Samad Khan was not indigenous at all. BTW this so-called indigenous movement there has been armed and supported by Pakistan.

Actually in terms of foreign policy and Intelligence agencies most Pashtuns are not in line with Pakistan. These policies have brought a lot of damage and death to our regions. Why don't you see the outcomes in FATA, PATA and even now in the settled districts thanks to your country's muhibe watanwaal's policy. Pashtuns have benefited more from Afghanistan than Pakistan (historically, although a lot of loss as well). Either way, that is a argumentatively weak thing to do. So what if we didn't benefit from it, does it change the reality of Pakistan?

Are you from those areas that are suffering from the policies of Pakistan? Where did you get the idea to speak for 30 million Pashtuns? On one hand you call others conspiracy theorist and on the other you have made so many sweeping statements when the outcome of these policies are there on the ground.

I just used his comment about Pakistan because it is pertinent. And to honest that is what Pakistan has become, hasn't it?

P.S. nice attempt at sarcasm, now take away ISI and add RAW and india.....that was the propaganda that was spread about the operations in Swat and FATA. When I first heard this, It was disgusting, a total slap on our faces. Amm ba dae thabaa kaomaa ao pa darnaa drama joraoma.

[roadrunner]

Bengal Tiger,

This is a Pashtun forum. As such I, and I'm sure everyone else, don't want to see the typical Bangladesh mentality squabble that occurs everytime that war comes up.

If you really want it discussed I suggest you start your own quarantined post on this forum on another thread. I'm not going to discuss it on this one.

What I will say is everything you say has already been disproved, from the admission by Bangladeshi "scholars" that they faked the 3 million, to the admission that genocide was an exagerration, and even that the Bangladesh War Museum faked the deaths of Bangladeshis by putting up pictures of dead Biharis (who were killed by the Bangladeshis). An example here.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/106031...ry_5969733.asp

[graveyardofempires]

we love you my bangladeshi friend
you are welcome
dont pay attention to trolls

[Feroza_Banu]

i suggest this topic is turned into a sticky.... this issue is brought up one too many times... every new comer has this question and confusion..."why pakistan is a problem to Afghanistan"... if this thread is a sticky then every new comer can refer to it and either be clear about the topic or ask more questions.

[roadrunner]

fzpz I am not confused at all. The referendum was rigged and the voting method was suspect.

Why was the referendum rigged? What is the proof of this?

Actually in terms of foreign policy and Intelligence agencies most Pashtuns are not in line with Pakistan. These policies have brought a lot of damage and death to our regions. Why don't you see the outcomes in FATA, PATA and even now in the settled districts thanks to your country's muhibe watanwaal's policy. Pashtuns have benefited more from Afghanistan than Pakistan (historically, although a lot of loss as well). Either way, that is a argumentatively weak thing to do. So what if we didn't benefit from it, does it change the reality of Pakistan?

How have Pashtuns benefitted more from Afghanistan than Pakistan? Afghan refugees currently are being housed on Pakistani territory. If there was no Pakistan, where would they go? Would Iran put up with millions of refugees? I doubt it. I'm not saying Punjab or Sindh would either, BUT because Pakhtunkhwa is part of Pakistan, Afghan refugees have a place to go. They could all go there if they wanted to.

[roadrunner]

To the kiddies,

stick to your own threads. Don't spoil these ones.

[Bengal_Tiger]

The response of the troll who started this thread is very useful as it illustrates a number of things. First of all let me introduce this troll. This troll is an anti-Bangladeshi, Punjabi nationalist troll who used to troll on Pakistani nationalist forums such as pakistanidefence.forum and also defence.pk. The first forum is a very aggressive, Pakistani nationalist forum full of bigots many of whom openly celebrate the 1971 genocide and also call for the expulsion of Afghan refugees from Pakistan.

Trollrunner, the Punjabi, started this thread in order to supposedly ask why such hostility exists to the state officially known as “The Federation of Pakistan”. In the course of this thread another poster raised the oppression of Bangladeshis as an example of the dark and shameful history of this British-created state. Trollrunner, the Punjabi, then responded by labelling Bangladeshis as “traitors”, for what? For defending themselves against a military junta who launched an attack on them after they had peacefully and legally pursued the democratic and legal route of elections?

Since I myself am a PROUD BANGLADESHI, I posted refuting Trollrunner with a number of points. Trollrunner is unable to provide a satisfactory response to any of this, including the illegitimacy of the Yahya Khan junta launching a Gaddafi-style campaign against its own citizens and the total legitimacy of the Bengali people to defend themselves after years of oppression culminating in them not being able to rule the country democratically (3 out of the 5 provinces of the then Pakistan were in favour of autonomy Bengalis wanted, East Pakistan, N.W.F.P and Balochistan).

I do not want to make this a Bangladeshi-centric thread because this thread is about Pakistan, suffice to say that 1971 and the two decades of oppression, racism and injustice which preceded it are very valid and pertinent points to raise when highlighting the very evil and unfair nature of the British-created state of Pakistan. On another note, what the ignorant Punjabi Sardar jee, Trollrunner is unaware is that I myself have stated on other fora that the 3 million number provided by the Awami League is inaccurate and the total was lower. However it was an illegal and brutal campaign of mass murder carried out against a people whose crime was merely to call for their democratic rights, it was an act of bloodletting 100 times greater than what dictator colonel Qaddafi is doing in Libya.

However that is all history now, and I wish to focus on things more relevant to Pashtuns. The people of Afghanistan have every right to be hostile to a state and military, that of Pakistan, which seeks to keep Afghanistan within its sphere of influence including if necessary by the sponsorship and patronage of radical militant groups ultimately supported by the ISI.

Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic state but the feeling of being an Afghanistani is something very real. An Uzbek in Afghanistan is loyal to Afghanistan and not to Uzbekistan, a Farsi speaker is loyal to Afghanistan and not to Iran or Tajikistan, and a Pashtun in Afghanistan is proud of his country. This is the state created by Baba Ahmed Shah Abdali (rahmatullahi alaih) and which unlike Jinnah’s (a British agent and grandson of a Hindu whose grandchildren are now non-Muslims in India) artificially created state of “Pakistan” (land of the pure, sic.) is a land where the people very much identify with that country. In “Pakistan” (sic.) the constituent ethnic groups however have not formed a pan-Pakistani identity. Punjabis view other races as inferior and themselves as the real Pakistanis and call Indian-origined “Mohajirs” as “kalu” (black) and despise them as inferior and discriminate against them, Punjabis dislike Pashtuns and call them “Khan Sahib”, “Pathan”, “gay Pathan”, “stupid Pathan” etc. Balochis will kill a Punjabi who enters into certain areas of Balochistan.

Afghanistan can be compared to Switzerland where each of the constituent peoples there, the French, Germans and Italians have countries which they could align themselves to i.e. France, Germany and Italy but are in fact loyal to the concept of Switzerland. Pakistan cannot be compared to anything, it is simply suis generis, a failed third world terrorist state run by a brutal and greedy feudal-military elite who misuse religion for their own selfish political aims. If Afghanistan can be compared to Switzerland, Pakistan can be compared to a toilet.







Bengali leader Mujib (rahmatullahi alaih) with Bengali liberation forces including supreme military leader of Bengali liberation forces, Colonel Osmani on the far right who defeated the toilet that is "Pakistan".