Pakistan

[khushal]

You are by far the dumbest panjabi Ive come accross.

Your saying that america supplied the majahadeen with weapons because the americans had advanced weapons. 99% of the weapons used were russian and chinese made.

Najib and the Soviets were practically begging the Majhadeen to negotiate a peacefull settlement during the soviets occupation and after they left. They knew they had lost and knew it was a matter of time before Najibs government fell. Pakistan knew this as well and knew once the Najib government collapses, these idiotic leaders would be fighting each other. Najib even predicted this before his governments demise. there were many analysts that also predicted this, because like I stated before, there was no plan for a post Najib government.

But its useless arguing with you. you keep talking about nonsense.

[roadrunner]

You are by far the dumbest panjabi Ive come accross.

Your saying that america supplied the majahadeen with weapons because the americans had advanced weapons. 99% of the weapons used were russian and chinese made.

The Russians weren't supplying the Mujahideen to kill their own troops, dohhhhhh.

The Mujahideen created replicates. Seriously, you're not Pashtun. You haven't got the slightest inkling of what's gone on in recent Pashtun history or of the Pashtun culture. It was not Pakistan, or Pakistan's proxy that broke the Peshawar Accords.

Najib and the Soviets were practically begging the Majhadeen to negotiate a peacefull settlement during the soviets occupation and after they left. They knew they had lost and knew it was a matter of time before Najibs government fell.

Wrong again. Najibullah was well in control of Afghanistan after 3 years. Moscow supplied him with weapons and he had no problem holding the Mujahideen off.

Read about it since you don't know about it. Najibullah controlled every major Afghan city 3 years after the Soviets had left.

His demise came when Moscow decided to stop giving him arms and supplies. Up till that point he was quite happy to stay and not negotiate.

Pakistan knew this as well and knew once the Najib government collapses, these idiotic leaders would be fighting each other. Najib even predicted this before his governments demise. there were many analysts that also predicted this, because like I stated before, there was no plan for a post Najib government.

But its useless arguing with you. you keep talking about nonsense.

Pakistan didn't know this. Neither did the US and the other allies. Right up till the point when the Communist government agreed to allow the UN to negotiate a peace deal, everyone was still supplying their lunatic.

There was a plan for the post Najibullah government. I've told you this hundreds of times before, but it doesn't go in. The plan was the UN peace plan. It worked until the Peshawar Accords were ignored.

So how is Pakistan responsible for this figment of the Nationalist's imagination that Pakistan caused the instability in Afghanistan after the Communist defeat?

[dashtestan]

I didn't take the time to read any of this because I don't want to be depressed.
All I have to say is in my outrageous opinion is that the conjoined twins of Pakistan and Afghanistan should be one country because neither can survive without the other....

The British drew a line on the map...but who carved it into our hearts?

[graveyardofempires]

this trollrunner is getting totally out of the line
all of his posts are just lies and bias.

[roadrunner]

I didn't take the time to read any of this because I don't want to be depressed.
All I have to say is in my outrageous opinion is that the conjoined twins of Pakistan and Afghanistan should be one country because neither can survive without the other....

The British drew a line on the map...but who carved it into our hearts?

I don't mind that. Everyone ignores the Durand Line anyway.

[roadrunner]

So I guess no Pashtun Nationalist or non Pashtun can give me an answer that won't be debunked as to what exactly it is that singles out Pakistan for the anti-bias.

It seems as though a lot of these internet Pashtun Nationalists have an agenda of spreading disinformation

[khushal]

you havent dubunked anything.
your just a loudmouth idiot posting away nonsense.

This is how you argue.
person x: the sky is blue
you: no it is not blue that is wrong.
person x: look outside you idiot
you: nobody has debunked me

[BarakzaiAbdali]

So I guess no Pashtun Nationalist or non Pashtun can give me an answer that won't be debunked as to what exactly it is that singles out Pakistan for the anti-bias.

It seems as though a lot of these internet Pashtun Nationalists have an agenda of spreading disinformation

Brother Khushaal is not a Pashtun nationalist... so that is likely why you are not getting a Pashtun nationalist answer from him. He is more properly, a Pashtun independent. In my past discussions with him he has not singled out Pakistan for blame... but he refuses to absolve it either. For example, he and I had a hearty discussion about America's own role (per my citizenship here) and he had his fair share of the blame for all parties.

Brother Khushaal, could you delineate for me, what role you saw Najib taking though? Say if the Muhajideen and subsquent Taliban were not Pakistani influenced, why should that have left Najib in power? He killed family members based out of Sher Surkh who were involved in the efforts against his Piryaan. So why would it be seen as a net positive for Afghans to have retained him in power? Or did I misread you?

[roadrunner]

you havent dubunked anything.
your just a loudmouth idiot posting away nonsense.

This is how you argue.
person x: the sky is blue
you: no it is not blue that is wrong.
person x: look outside you idiot
you: nobody has debunked me

more like.

person x (you): the sky is blue because ISI changed it with their raygun
me: give me proof that ISI did that.
person x (you): i can't, but ISI is responsible for it.

[roadrunner]

Brother Khushaal is not a Pashtun nationalist... so that is likely why you are not getting a Pashtun nationalist answer from him. He is more properly, a Pashtun independent. In my past discussions with him he has not singled out Pakistan for blame... but he refuses to absolve it either. For example, he and I had a hearty discussion about America's own role (per my citizenship here) and he had his fair share of the blame for all parties.

probably true, but i didn't say he was a Pashtun Nationalist. I'd go for a non Muslim Indian, or just non Pashtun.

[khushal]

Brother Khushaal, could you delineate for me, what role you saw Najib taking though? Say if the Muhajideen and subsquent Taliban were not Pakistani influenced, why should that have left Najib in power? He killed family members based out of Sher Surkh who were involved in the efforts against his Piryaan. So why would it be seen as a net positive for Afghans to have retained him in power? Or did I misread you?

First I would like to make it clear I am no Najib sympathizer. Most afghans that were fighting during the soviet occupation were fighting to get the foreign forces out. In fact many laid down their arms when the soviets left. Najib's hold on power would have been limited with or without a peace deal since many in his own army and administration where questioning his judgment. A powersharing aggreement would not have ensured his grip on power but it would have been more likely that he would have eventually been sidelined.

Mohammad Najibullah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In March 1990 his government successfully withstood a Khalqi coup d'état, headed by Defense Minister Shahnawaz Tanai. According to Halimzai, a few months before the coup Mohammad Zahir Ofoq, the head of a small communist party, met with Shahnawaz Tanai to make a strategy for the coup. Halimzai says "When we were discussing how to take over the control, I told them that the coup will be unsuccessful unless we have control of departments like Media, Defence, Ministry of Foreign Affairs in our hand. I told them that I am not willing to bring about such change. I said that you both should be aware of the all circumstances. We can't take over Kabul, and once we fail no power will stop Ashrar (Mujahedeen) to enter Kabul. Eventually they agreed and said that they will first create grounds for a coup afterwards will act. But they were actually planning the coup and just before the coup Mr. Ofoq went to India and after failing Mr. Tanai fled to Islamabad. And I was right, Dr. Najib's regime became weaker and in March 1992, Ashrar were wandering in the streets of Kabul, who were now Mujahedeen.


It would have been more beneficial to the afghans if the afghan governments collapse would have been prevented. The disenfranchised parties should have worked with the government instead of completely destoying it, creating chaos and have other regional powers play in afghan affairs. History has shown us that the breakdown and collapse of institutions has been a liability to society. This is to say if we are talking about the best interests of the afghan people.

One of the main reasons for the British success in India was that they just took over the Moghul institutions rather than destroying them. One of the main blunders of the recent Iraq war was bush promoting the idea of completely wiping Baathist institutions and creating new ones from scratch. These policies have done nothing but give regional powers the opportunity to interfere in that societies affairs.

While I believe the real blame goes back to Dauds policies towards the soviet union and his policies towards Pakistan. Pakistan just took advantage of a situation(the soviet invasion) where she can have leverage in shaping afghanistan future since almost all of the worlds aid to the majahadeen and refugees went through Pakistan. Pakistan choose to have divided majahadeeen factions. Pakistan choose to have madrasas built for afghan refugees instead of schools with a wider choice of curriculum. etc etc