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  • #1

    Pakistan

    Again, kids please restrict yourselves to your sandpits. You know who you are. I'm looking for proper discussions.

    I've noticed some people (the same ones) retorting with Pakistan is the problem. So tell me what it is that Pakistan does that is the problem.

    The Durrand Line has its own thread, and isn't a practical problem at all. What else? Post away.
    Tags: pakistan
  • #2
    Pakistan's foreign policy towards Afghanistan. Let's start with strategic depth and Taliban.
    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
      Pakistan's foreign policy towards Afghanistan.
      Admin Khan it would be better to elaborate on that in context of not just Pakistan's foreign policy towards Afghanistan but also vice versa.

      what is your perception of both over the years ? as to what have been the foreign policies of Pakistan and Afghanistan towards each other
      It's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..

      Comment

      • #4
        What about its foreign policy?

        Something specific to chew on, if possible.

        Comment

        • #5
          Let's start with strategic depth and Taliban.

          By the way, as you might know I am not "Anti-Pakistani citizens". I personally love the inhabitants of Pakistan, and many of my friends are Pakistani. Just so we are clear, we are speaking of GOP's policy vis-a-vis Afghanistan, etc. It's absolutely ignorant to generalize and speak bad of it's 170million people. So, I just though't I'd throw that out first.

          RoadRunner,
          Since you are fluent with defence related topics, how about you elaborate on Strategic depth, and Pakistan's support of the Taliban.
          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Talal View Post
            Admin Khan it would be better to elaborate on that in context of not just Pakistan's foreign policy towards Afghanistan but also vice versa.

            what is your perception of both over the years ? as to what have been the foreign policies of Pakistan and Afghanistan towards each other
            Self-destructive. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan are horrible when it comes to foreign affairs. What Pakistan did to the Afghan people was unacceptable, and it still is unacceptable. What Pakistani inhabitants did was amazing, I am still shocked at how our brothers embraced millions of us. And I made the aforementioned very clear at the PF meeting we had. However, I will not tolerate the Pakistani government taking pride for what it's citizens did. It's our own people that embraced us, not Pakistan. And it's obvious and I am sure most Afghans know that Afghans who actually came to Pakistan worked hard for their money. Which is exactly why some don't even want to leave to Afghanistan since they now own businesses, and they have in reverse hired local Pakistanis. I once read this Urdu article in Wahdat daily[Karachi]on how beneficial Afghan refugees are to Karachi's economy. I mean, any Afghan can verify that they continuously send foreign currency to Karachi, and you will obviously know that the money adds up.
            Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

            A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

            For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


            The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

            -Ferishta, 1560–1620

            Comment

            • #7
              Talal and Roadrunner,

              What do you think of the Taliban?
              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

              Comment

              • #8
                US foreign secretary Mandeline Albright during Clinton era called Pakistan international maigrine. One cannot but agree with her assertion. This canceride state is a problem for every other country in the region and the broader world except perhaps China. It is also a problem for nations inside its border except Punjab.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                  Let's start with strategic depth and Taliban.

                  By the way, as you might know I am not "Anti-Pakistani citizens". I personally love the inhabitants of Pakistan, and many of my friends are Pakistani. Just so we are clear, we are speaking of GOP's policy vis-a-vis Afghanistan, etc. It's absolutely ignorant to generalize and speak bad of it's 170million people. So, I just though't I'd throw that out first.
                  I think there's many on here that don't realize this distinction. Pay attention to this, those that don't.

                  RoadRunner,
                  Since you are fluent with defence related topics, how about you elaborate on Strategic depth, and Pakistan's support of the Taliban.
                  I think what you're saying here is that Pakistan has used Afghanistan for strategic depth.

                  Let me ask you to consider this.

                  When the Soviets invaded, did Afghanistan not use Pakistan as strategic depth so that military/militant centres were still able to fund the resistance? Were you against the anti Soviet resistance? (open question btw, I sometimes wonder if it was a bad thing to do).

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Toramana View Post
                    US foreign secretary Mandeline Albright during Clinton era called Pakistan international maigrine. One cannot but agree with her assertion. This canceride state is a problem for every other country in the region and the broader world except perhaps China. It is also a problem for nations inside its border except Punjab.
                    Madeline Albright also said that the deaths of half a million Iraqi kids was acceptable.

                    Point out why you think Pakistan is so, instead of emotional outbursts. You seem to not know why you're angry.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                      Talal and Roadrunner,

                      What do you think of the Taliban?
                      Taliban are a symptom of Afghanistan. The Afghan-Soviet war, the radicalization, what to do with all those radicals who only knew militancy. Pakistan just stamped the name Taliban onto these individuals.

                      I wish they'd unbrainwash themselves, but it will take a while. In the meantime, they're too much of a popular movement within Afghanistan to ignore. Reconciliation is the only answer, plus lots of funding for development.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by roadrunner View Post
                        Madeline Albright also said that the deaths of half a million Iraqi kids was acceptable.

                        Point out why you think Pakistan is so, instead of emotional outbursts. You seem to not know why you're angry.
                        If it were only Madeline Albright saying that, I would be skeptical...But almost every other expert of international affair and foreign policy official of countries in the wider world have directly or indirectly expressed such opinion about Pakistan...

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Toramana View Post
                          US foreign secretary Mandeline Albright during Clinton era called Pakistan international maigrine. One cannot but agree with her assertion. This canceride state is a problem for every other country in the region and the broader world except perhaps China. It is also a problem for nations inside its border except Punjab.
                          And they same people gave Pakistan billions in military and strategic aid to go kill thousands of Pukhtoons. It doesn't matter what a US policy maker says, what matters is what they do. Actions speaks louder than words.

                          Pakistan is an asset, a very dirty one. It is irreplaceable. The US/British will never let go of this puppy. Plus, Pakistanis are very flexible, far more than you can imagine. If it comes down right to it, they'd do anything to save their neck.

                          Just look at what they did to Pukhtoons, Bangalis, Balochis, and their beradaar Taliban and Mujahideen in Islam?

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            btw. don't get me wrong. I'm not for the Pakistani establishment who do a great disservice to Pakistanis and Afghans in my opinion.

                            I've heard some people, perhaps Pakistanis who knows, say that "they" won the war for the Afghan people (the Afghan-Soviet war). Which of course is nonsense. Pakistan was just logistics.

                            One of the greatest mistakes Pakistan made was allowing General Zia into power. Again probably at the behest of foreign masters. He reigned down radicalization on both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Both countries were made to suffer.

                            There was no need to radicalize either the Afghans or the Pakistanis. The Pashtuns would have fought the Soviets without the need for religion telling them to do so. That was a blunder of epic proportions.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by roadrunner View Post
                              Taliban are a symptom of Afghanistan. The Afghan-Soviet war, the radicalization, what to do with all those radicals who only knew militancy. Pakistan just stamped the name Taliban onto these individuals.
                              I think you are being a bit too lenient here. Pakistan supported and funded them, do you agree? During 1996-2001, Pakistan was very well aware that Afghanistan is on the verge of becoming the sole stone-age nation in the world. Why didn't Pakistan positively enlighten the men they exerted influence on? Pakistan was an important ally for the Taliban, and you and I both know that Pakistan was capable of influencing these young men. Today, most Afghans hate Pakistan simply because of the way they brainwashed young Afghans. I blame Afghans first though. So I hope you don't think I am blaming Pakistan for everything that has happened to Afghanistan. The fact is Pakistan supported a regime that pretty much made Afghanistan solely dependent on them. That's is exactly what Pakistan wanted, a friendly Afghanistan to help her in her problems.

                              Would you agree that Pakistan is playing a double game right now? There are many authoratative sources that show Pakistan is supporting the Taliban. Why is that Roadrunner?

                              Taliban, and Madrassas* for Afghanistan = Wooho!
                              Taliban, and Madrassas for Pakistan = Naha!

                              Madrassas*
                              I am not against Islamic education. If an individual want's to attend a Madrassa, he/she can feel free.

                              I wish they'd unbrainwash themselves, but it will take a while. In the meantime, they're too much of a popular movement within Afghanistan to ignore. Reconciliation is the only answer, plus lots of funding for development.
                              Pakistan's propaganda worked. The uneducated, illiterate Afghans fell for it because all they wanted was peace, even if that meant serving as a tool for Islamabad.
                              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                              Comment

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