How can Pashtuns shield against imperialism...

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Wuss dae da kaar khabara okrrla wrora. Now that you and I recognize the folly of our people we should work to unify them. Our lands have been destroyed we should work to unite our Afghan/Pakhtun brethren on both sides. Let us work together and at least start bridging, rebuilding, helping each other. Isn't that a good start?

Mashallah, see what you accomplished below? No invective, no epithaps, none of this Paki this or Paki that. You were able to accomplish this as opposed to Azmal calling him a dog. This was my major point in this.

"yes true... we should make our people strong.
i love my people but for that you have to stop the mouths of all those who are spreading hatred against those pukhtuns who are in pakistan. we are all the same"

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Talibanism and fundamentalism (or Islamo-fascism) are also not possible either...Liberal and secular ideals run deep in Pashtun society thanks the inherent secular nature of Pashtun traditions and struggle of our revered leaders e.g. Bacha Khan, etc.

The natural balance will be reversion to typical Pashtun traditional society prior to 1980s conservative in terms of traditional values but not religious or theocratic in political terms.

Just go to Karkhanai or any tribal agency and see how secular it is ...

Wrong again. No evidence for this per our prior discussion on Ahmad Shah Abdali, Shah Waliullah etc. Rather, religiosity under the banner of tribalism far outweights secular tendencies. Liberal tendencies? Go see what happens in a kalaay when a woman is accused of cheating on her husband. Doing some ghorzadaal at a wadaa is not the definition of liberalism. You are reinventing history here. You have yet to explain Amanullah Shah's Ghazis, Soraya's getting grilled in Qandahar over lifting her veil, etc.

This is my point. You continue to grasp at the world as you want it to be versus the world as it is.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Talibanism and fundamentalism (or Islamo-fascism) are also not possible either...Liberal and secular ideals run deep in Pashtun society thanks the inherent secular nature of Pashtun traditions and struggle of our revered leaders e.g. Bacha Khan, etc.

The natural balance will be reversion to typical Pashtun traditional society prior to 1980s conservative in terms of traditional values but not religious or theocratic in political terms.

Just go to Karkhanai or any tribal agency and see how secular it is ...

Also, Per Michael Scheuer, you misuse the term Islamo Facism again:

http://non-intervention.com/827/tuni...from-the-west/

"The Muslim world is rife with Islamofascists. What the Necons deliberately failed to add to this truism is that the Islamofascists are not found among the mujahedin, but rather man the Arab regimes that Washington, many of its Western allies, and Israel have supported for several decades."

Please disprove Dr. Scheuer, his email is available on the website, and provide the results of your debate. Remember Toramana, evidence, citations, and proof.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

yes true... we should make our people strong.
i love my people but for that you have to stop the mouths of all those who are spreading hatred against those pukhtuns who are in pakistan. we are all the same

No one should do that, and neither should Pashtunkhwa badmouth our brothers and sisters west of the durand line. Raaza ma ao tha ba khpl koshish wokoo ao shoro ba shoo. We have to start somewhere.

[Toramana]

Hahaha Abdali, you can prove nothing merely are re-inventing (and in the process abusing) history to aswage your yearnings for a Khalafat...and your schoalrship begins at Micheal Sheufer and ends at Micheal Sheufer as if he is all-knowing ...One thing I must tell you, Pashtun society in KPK is deeply secular in polotical and ideological sense....

It is conservative in the sense of Pashtunwali but to claim that it likes to be ruled by Mullah Omar can only be a wild dream...

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Hahaha Abdali, you can prove nothing merely are re-inventing (and in the process abusing) history to aswage your yearnings for a Khalafat...and your schoalrship begins at Micheal Sheufer and ends at Micheal Sheufer as if he is all-knowing ...One thing I must tell you, Pashtun society in KPK is deeply secular in polotical and ideological sense....

It is conservative in the sense of Pashtunwali but to claim that it likes to be ruled by Mullah Omar can only be a wild dream...

I've stated the same thing. I dont think KP would accept Omar's rule. But they certainly wont accept girls wearing a two piece bikini either. They also will not accept a number of western liberal values any more than other conservative societies (including conservative hindu society) would.

You cannot rebut him and cannot rebut his reasoning. Its like quoting IEEE for engineers or the New England journal for doctors. He's a superior source to anything you've provided.

Here is some more from him that you need to provide a rebuttal to before I can take you seriously:

"
Well, no. While the immediate spark for events in Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen came from poverty, oppression, etc, the ultimate cause is the unIslamic nature of the dictatorial governments that long have ruled the three states in question. Each regime has used the rhetoric of Islam in public statements and the methodology of European Fascism as its instrument of government. On this point the Neoconservatives were absolutely right: The Muslim world is rife with Islamofascists. What the Necons deliberately failed to add to this truism is that the Islamofascists are not found among the mujahedin, but rather man the Arab regimes that Washington, many of its Western allies, and Israel have supported for several decades."

"The Islamofascist regimes also know that the pro-democracy bark of Washington and its NATO allies is likely to be far worse than their bite because the existence of the regimes is necessary for the survival of Israel. It is the vigorously brutal oppression of the Mubaraks, Abdullahs (Jordan and Saudi Arabia), and Bashirs of the Arab world that controls borders contiguous with Israel and keeps a lid on hundreds of millions of Muslims who seethe with a desire to exact wide and lethal retribution for what they see as Israel’s theft, on-going occupation, and unfolding annexation of Muslim land."

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Hahaha Abdali, you can prove nothing merely are re-inventing (and in the process abusing) history to aswage your yearnings for a Khalafat...and your schoalrship begins at Micheal Sheufer and ends at Micheal Sheufer as if he is all-knowing ...One thing I must tell you, Pashtun society in KPK is deeply secular in polotical and ideological sense....

It is conservative in the sense of Pashtunwali but to claim that it likes to be ruled by Mullah Omar can only be a wild dream...

I need to confirm this, and wiki is not necessarily a reliable source... but this article there notes the following:

"Although Shariah courts existed in urban centers after Ahmad Shah Durrani established an Afghan state in 1747, the primary judicial basis for the society remained in the tribal code of the Pashtunwali until the end of the nineteenth century."

This appears to once again blow another whole in your claim to Ahmad Shah Baba being on the same side of the fence as your Bacha Khan."


Hahaha, what appears to blow a fatal hole in your Arabism theory is WHO conquered the region initially in the name of Islam.


Per the same wiki link
"Arabs were unable to succeed in converting the population of that area because of constant revolts from the mountain tribes. In 870, Ya'qub-i Laith Saffari, a local Persian[5] ruler from the Saffarid dynasty of Zaranj, conquered most of the cities of present-day Afghanistan in the name of Islam."

Source is the following:

1. The Encyclopedia of world history, Editors Peter N. Stearns and William Leonard Langer, (Houghton Mifflin Company, 2001), 115

This would need to be confirmed

Sorry Toramana, but this more than blows a fatal hole in your theory of enforced camalism.

...Arab armies carrying the banner of Islam came out of the west to defeat the Sasanians in 642 AD and then they marched with confidence to the east. On the western periphery of the Afghan area the princes of Herat and Seistan gave way to rule by Arab governors but in the east, in the mountains, cities submitted only to rise in revolt and the hastily converted returned to their old beliefs once the armies passed. The harshness and avariciousness of Arab rule produced such unrest, however, that once the waning power of the Caliphate became apparent, native rulers once again established themselves independent. Among these the Saffarids of Seistan shone briefly in the Afghan area. The fanatic founder of this dynasty, the coppersmith’s apprentice Yaqub ibn Layth Saffari, came forth from his capital at Zaranj in 870 AD and marched through Bost, Kandahar, Ghazni, Kabul, Bamyan, Balkh and Herat, conquering in the name of Islam.[5]
—Nancy Hatch Dupree, 1971