Terrorism In Pakistan And Afghanistan..Causes and solutions

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

@Shamlawar
First of all, thank You for your answer!
I have a question for you: What is in your eyes a nationalist? Can you answer me in a detailed way, so i may better understand You?

I repeat perhaps myself saying it, learning English we learned Azgainakan (armenian word, where azg= nation, tribal union, azgain=national,tribal, ethnic (for example Folk music= azgain yerazhshtutyun), azgainakan= azgain + suffix -akan => wordly "nationalic", "tribalic", translated as "nationalist").
Since that moment i use nationalist exatly in the same sense interchangebly with our native word.


So if i talk about nationalists I don't mean an organization in particular way, because same way we have parties that pose as nationalists, but are in reality all the opposite.
And the people You described are allso al the opposite, they are antinational if they steal from their people .
But there are same way people who say to present faith but do the same and are same way false and use sentiments.
To ask me i see no difference in someone who uses faith or national unity for personal gains, and those people are quiet a lot.

I don't think You have the right to accuse all of a different way of thinking being on payment of USA, and same way nobody can accuse all religious people of the same or opposite.
single people have qualities, and i met different people from both categories.
Isn'T it more important to exclude all such people and unite despit your differences?
Also, what are SUV?
I have to quit now, so i limit myself on this posting!
Sorry for interrupting

Nationalists are generally a particular group of people who emphasize Western values and Western concepts and ideas.

They like to depict Afghanistan as a nation-state. Nation-states are modern Western concepts. Europeans have gone through a process where their society was homogenized. In most European societies there is only one or two languages. Ethnic and regional differences are down to a minimum and most importantly, they are secular.

In third world countries, an average country consists of a dozen different ethnic groups with different languages, ethnicties, customs and even physical appearance.

Nation-states in the third world are a product of decolonization. The colonial powers have divided people into different countries.

So the suggestion that we can have a Western type of nationalism in our society is absurd and ridiculous.

The Nationalist will argue that eventhough nation-state and nationalism are Western ideas, we still do need them.

But they don't have any evidence that the existence of a nation-state or a nationalist ideology contributes to betterment of our social and economic conditions. Its merely ideology and wishful thinking. No scientific facts. Despite their attempt to discredit religious beliefs for being irrational, the cause of their movement is based on dogma.

Since they have no evidence to convince us that their imported ideas work, they resort to poetry, romanticism and other superficial and absurd matters to make a case. Notice how most secular nationalists are primarily engaged in music, dancing and other matters that have absolutely no link to economic and social progress.

The real reason why some people are prone to become nationalists and secularists is not sheer love and affection for their own respective community. But rather, the reason is in their individual discontent with the reality.

They see fair skinned rich white Europeans possessing all of the worlds wealth and power while they are poor, illiterate and helpless.

They assume, if they mimic all the exterior aspects of Western society such as promiscuity, dancing, music, shallow and superficial philosophic rant etc, they will somehow redeem themselves from their reality into a better state.

So in reality their problem is material. But since it is convenient and pleasant to romanticize everything, they emphasize the sentimental aspects of their heritage as a disguise. What they are really after is, wealth, money and power.

If you study the history of Afghanistan, the secular Nationalists have always sided with the invaders, the divisive elements and open enemies of our religion in exchange for power, money, status and perks.

SUV is a Sports Utility Vehicle. Its a large 4x4 luxury car like Toyota Landcruiser, Mercedes ML, BMW x5 etc.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Caring for your country and its future does not mean we should become nationalists.

It is part of our faith as Muslims to care for the well being of those around us. This is why most practicing Muslims from Afghanistan in the West are envolved in charities where they invest in education, healthcare and other services bypassing the corrupt criminal Western international organizations.

Yet the Nationalists apply for jobs as translators for US army, they receive funds from USAID to promote corruption, they drive around in expensive SUV's and when you question their methods, they will tell you that since you are religious, you are brainwashed, and therefore you don't really care about your country.

So in reality, nationalism means being corrupt, shallow and cunning. Nationalists use the sentiments of people to rob them.

Exactly this is why I don't trust people like Badlun or Toramana; they seem to have a corrupt agenda attached to everything.

[khushal]

nationalism is a divider of people plus nationalist tend to identify with their own ethnicity vs a common idea that could benefit all people so therefore nationalism tends to be selfish and not long lasting. nationalism in Europe is actually an obstacle to unity vs european interference as the obstacle to unity in the middle east and south and central asia.

[Kushan Prince]

nationalism is a divider of people plus nationalist tend to identify with their own ethnicity vs a common idea that could benefit all people so therefore nationalism tends to be selfish and not long lasting. nationalism in Europe is actually an obstacle to unity vs european interference as the obstacle to unity in the middle east and south and central asia.

But there are a lot of pashtun nationalists though.

[Badlun]

Then what is substitute of nationalism and nation state?
Will you dismantle Afghanistan , a state of Afghans and will merge it with some hypothetical Umma, or caliphate or world state or what other utopia of internationalism or idealism?

If UAE, Qatar and Kuwait want their own states and do not want merger with their big brother Saudi then how can we think of some other conglomerate , federation, confederation , union or merger of nation states.

How you can merge nation states like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India into one unit?

For us US, Saudi and China all are outsiders. No terrorism and no outsiders.

The only way is decentralization, deregulation, devolution and organizing nations, societies, communities, linguistic groups, ethnic groups in the unit of state and then having economic and political unions on the pattern of UN, EU and ASEAN.

This way each unit in the shape of state and nation will be strong which will contribute towards global peace, security and prosperity.

[khushal]

Then what is substitute of nationalism and nation state?
Will you dismantle Afghanistan , a state of Afghans and will merge it with some hypothetical Umma, or caliphate or world state or what other utopia of internationalism or idealism?

If UAE, Qatar and Kuwait want their own states and do not want merger with their big brother Saudi then how can we think of some other conglomerate , federation, confederation , union or merger of nation states.

How you can merge nation states like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India into one unit?

For us US, Saudi and China all are outsiders. No terrorism and no outsiders.

The only way is decentralization, deregulation, devolution and organizing nations, societies, communities, linguistic groups, ethnic groups in the unit of state and then having economic and political unions on the pattern of UN, EU and ASEAN.

This way each unit in the shape of state and nation will be strong which will contribute towards global peace, security and prosperity.

If you look at it from a secular point of view, ever since Alexander, humanity has been in a struggle to somehow unite itself. Afghanistan, Pakistan and India was one unit for centuries and very prosperous, it were the brits who divided it into nation states and have been weak, unstable and unprosperous. UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, and Saudi are states ruled by tyrants who are in power because of outside support which again the brits divided them into nation states. Historically, they were one unit.

Your intentionally being dishonest. your intentionally disregarding 2000 years of history before WW1. Your under the impression that people are naturally evil like you and hate each other. In reality, people actually want to llive in peace and want to work with one another, they want to trade with one another and progress in balance with nature.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Exactly this is why I don't trust people like Badlun or Toramana; they seem to have a corrupt agenda attached to everything.

Before you joined this forum, there was a guy by the name of Jan Assakzai. He is a former BBC journalist and an outspoken Nationalist. He even wrote articles on this forum defending nationalism.

He was offered a job as the official spokesman of the most corrupt and immoral politician in Pakistan, Mullah Diesel (Falzurrahman). He took the job and now he is in service of Pashtun nationalists worst enemy.

We have a classic example of what nationalists are all about in this forum.

They are indeed corrupt, and after money and power.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Then what is substitute of nationalism and nation state?

I was explaining why nationalism as an ideology is alien and impractical.

Besides, an Islamic khilafah is the ultimate goal of Muslims. It is not something we can achieve right at this moment.

Will you dismantle Afghanistan , a state of Afghans and will merge it with some hypothetical Umma, or caliphate or world state or what other utopia of internationalism or idealism?

Utopia means no place. SOmething that does not exist and never existed.

Ummah means nation.

Fact: Afghanistan is part of the Ummah because its 99% Muslim except a few Hindus and apostates like yourself.

Khilafah existed and Khilafah is the way Muslim ummah was governed for almost 14 centuries while modern nation-states are a modern concept from early 20th century. Before that, we did not have nation-states in Muslim world.

If UAE, Qatar and Kuwait want their own states and do not want merger with their big brother Saudi then how can we think of some other conglomerate , federation, confederation , union or merger of nation states.

Merging is not what we want. We want a central Muslim authority to govern all nations. Its not about what you or what a Saudi or Qatari wants. Its what Islam prescribes for Muslims.

The only way is decentralization, deregulation, devolution and organizing nations, societies, communities, linguistic groups, ethnic groups in the unit of state and then having economic and political unions on the pattern of UN, EU and ASEAN.

We can continue endlessly dividing people and allowing divisive elements like yourself to cause instability. Division causes weakness. Unity is strength.

[Badlun]

Human civilization is progressing not retrogressing. Gone are the days of kingdoms, caliphates, empires and sultanates. As democracy is today the ideal kind of government similarly nation state is the ideal unit. Human beings are at the climax of development where we have democracy and nation states.

Now as individual is more important than a tribe similarly nation is more important than groupings like Umma, Christendom and transnational brotherhoods. Now the trend is democracy in a nation state. We cannot go few centuries back.

As now we do not use camels for transport but use aeroplanes, similalry now the norm is democarcy an dnation states not religious groupings . One reason of terrorism is the religious extremism of Pashtuns. More nationalism less terrorism is the formula.

[Badlun]

For the real causes of terrorism please see these highly interesting articles

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=705862&posted=1#post705862

What a truth!
If Saudi rulers had more brains, they might be formidably dangerous. Even with lackluster intelligence assets, they are already causing enough havoc and bloodshed across the Middle East and North Africa regions, pouring millions-of-dollars-worth of weaponry into Al Qaeda and other Takfiri networks that are destroying once proud civilizations in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Libya through nihilistic sectarianism.
And if the Saudi paymasters of terrorism could have it all their way, they would salivate at the chance of extending this destruction to Iran - the Shia power that they fear as their nemesis.

I am astonished why Afghanistan and Pakistan are not mentioned here. Saudis are destroying Pashtunwali and Pashtun nationalism by their extremist ideology.

[Badlun]

Pakistan bans three extremist outfits, on orders from China

Pakistan bans three extremist outfits, on orders from China – The Express Tribune

[Badlun]

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia's grand mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah al-Sheikh branded suicide bombers as "criminals" who will go to "hell," Al-Hayat daily reported Thursday.

Suicide bombings are "great crimes" and bombers are "criminals who rush themselves to hell by their actions," Sheikh said during a lecture in Riyadh a few days ago, according to Al-Hayat.

Sheikh described suicide bombers as "robbed of their minds... who have been used (as tools) to destroy themselves and societies."

In February 2010, Sheikh denounced terrorism as un-Islamic and condemned the killing of civilians, saying such attacks have nothing to do with the Muslim religion.
Saudi grand mufti calls suicide bombers ´criminals´ - thenews.com.pk