A Roadmap for Pashtunistan

[Long Live Pakistan]

Explain your view about military operations by Pakistan army in pashtun areas?

So I assume you believe they shouldn't have intervened to put an end to taliban rule?

[Michin Khel]

So I assume you believe they shouldn't have intervened to put an end to taliban rule?

I believe the whole fault lies within Pakistan itself, it encourages religous extremism . Pashtuns were experimented and given doses of jihad etc, now they are getting punished because adverse effects of experiments are showing, are we some sort of guina pigs?
Waziristanis were encouraged and trained to become jihadi militants by Pakistan, now they are targeted.......so that billions of dlloars can be grabbed in the name of war on terror.

[randolph85]

So I assume you believe they shouldn't have intervened to put an end to taliban rule?

pakistan seems to love the idea of the taliban ruling afghanistan, so why is pakistan against their own talibs ruling pakistan?

[Badlun]

No Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan but bridging the distance by non political means

I see Pashtuns talking about Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan (Greater Afghanistan) but I just see them talking no body is taking any action. These are all imaginative plans which have nothing to do with the reality so far. That’s why the only reality is the status quo, where we are. In the present circumstances nothing will change. Pakistan will never let its Pashtun parts to be ceded and Afghanistan is never asking for it or doing any thing for it. For Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan I don’t see any serious movement neither in Pakistan nor in Afghanistan.

Pashtun nationalist parties in Pakistan like ANP and PMAP are involved in pure Pakistani politics. They swear by the constitution of Pakistan and never talk of separation from Pakistan and joining Loy Afghanistan or creating Pashtunistan. I don’t see any mass movement in the streets of Pakistan for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. These are only internet slogans by very few Pashtuns but in the real life there is no struggle going on for these goals. I don’t know any party or group like Baloch liberation Army fighting in the real sense for any independent Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. Pashtun nationalists talk only of Pashtun rights within Pakistan but never talk of dismembering Pakistan and creating a new entity. We don’t see any struggle on the pattern of Bengalis for Bangladesh. Rather many Pakistanis are quite happy in Pakistan and will never look to the worn torn Afghanistan as their abode.
The same situation can be witnessed in Afghanistan. We don’t have a single party or group struggling for Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. Afghan government never asks for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan from Pakistan and will never sacrifice its non Pashtun parts for any pure Pashtun state. All non Pashtuns are considered equal Afghans and Afghanistan will never leave its non Pashtuns Afghans for Pashtuns of Pakistan. The only reality emerges in this scenario is the status quo. But it does not mean Pashtuns cease to be the same race or ethnic group. They remain brethren in Pashtunwali and speakers of the same language.


Keeping in view the reality of no possibility of any political unity, the only path remains is non political. I am extremely worried about the increasing distance between the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan. If some serious efforts are not taken Pashtuns on both sides of the border, Pashtuns will deem themselves as different races or ethnicities. Yes races or ethnicities because already they belong to two different nations, Pakistani and Afghanistani or afghan.

Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line belong to one family, one blood, one language and one culture, one past but now being part of two different countries, distance is increasing between them. Pashtuns in Pakistan are coming under influence of Punjabis and Urdu speakers and Pashtuns in Afghanistan are coming under influence of Tajiks and Persian speakers.

We have to work and suggest that how Pashtuns on both sides can be culturally and linguistically united? Their cultural and linguistic unity is the only possibility as their political unity is now an unattainable dream. We have to devise pragmatic strategies that how distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line can be reduced and they may come together at least culturally psychologically and linguistically if not politically. Pashtuns must be realistic in their approach. Some Pashtuns on both sides want merger of Pashtuns areas which is impossible as how Afghanistan will leave its non -Pashtun areas to be merged with Pashtun areas for a greater Pashtunistan. This is impossible, and how Pakistan will let its Pashtun areas to be separated, that would be too impossible for Pakistan.

As the distance between the Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and Pakistan is increasing we must learn from nations who speak the same language and have the same culture but are politically different and belong to different nations or countries and are citizens of different states. For example all Arab, Spanish, German, French ,English speaking people are not the citizens of the same countries but psychologically ,linguistically , culturally , economically they have enormous ties and try to develop linkages which further strengthen their bonds

We Pashtuns on both sides of the border if cant become one nation politically at least can feel one ethnic group and sons of the same father living in different houses . We must encourage connections with each other by marriages, conferences and friendships. We must feel near to an Afghan Pashtun than to a Pakistani Panjabi and vice versa

The concern is also about the increasing distance of Pashto language spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a marked difference in vocabulary of the Pashto spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghanistani Pashto is influenced by Persian while Pakistani Pashto by Urdu or English. Here the solution is using pure Pashto words neither of Persian nor Urdu nor English. This will bridge the linguistic difference

However, the difference of accent is geographical not political. It does not depend on Pakistan or Afghanistan. It’s not East West. Its North –South. There arer two main dialects in Pashto language. Hard dialect spoken in areas like Peshawar, Mardan, Swat, Malakand, Dir, Kohat, Paracinar, Jalalabad, Bajawar, Mohmand, Khyber,etc mainly in northern part of Pashto speaking areas. Soft dialect is spoken in Southern areas like Banu, Karak, Waziristan, Baluchistan, Qandahar, Paktya etc

I have rarely seen an Afghan Pashtun who intensely hate a Pakistani Pashtun or a Pakistani Pashtun who abhor an Afghan Pashtun but the gap between Pashtuns living in these two countries is really increasing day by day and which can be seen in various internet based forums and other social events of mixed communities specially in foreign countries. Even in Pakistan a Pashtun from Afghanistan is some times called Kabaley or kabuli with a tone of humiliation and Afghan Pashtuns consider the Pakistani Pashtuns to be lesser Pashtuns.

Pashtuns are responsible as well as only solvers for all their problems including the increasing gap between the Pashtuns on both sides of the border. I wish the bridge of the distance between Pashtuns on two sides of the Durand line should be minimized not further intensified. We should become realist and instead of talking or struggling for imaginative ideals like Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan may struggle for the cultural, linguistic, psychological and economic unity of Pashtuns living any where in the world including Afghanistan or Pakistan.
This should be however clear that Afghanistan remains the motherland of Pashtuns and Pashtuns and Pashto have the only real status there in Afghanistan. The only hope for the development of Pashto as a language is Afghanistan. In Pakistan Pashtuns should struggle for greater provincial autonomy and should create a bigger Pashtun province including Khyber Pashtunkhwah, FATA, and the Pashtun parts of Baluchistan. Pakistani Pashtuns should struggle for Pashtun rights within Pakistan and making Pashto the official language of the Pashtun areas.

[jpn]

Erase the Durrand line. That's the most obvious thing to do to create a place called Pashtunistan. The hard part will be deciding where to draw the line separating Pastuns from Punjabis, Tajiks and others. Until there is a recognition of the rights of other ethnic groups to their own territory, the idea of Pashtunistan holds no moral authority.

[fzpz]

Actually the harder part would be to get the Pakistani Pashtuns to start giving a damn about pashtunistan, or separating themselves from their fellow countrymen. They're too well intertwined with Pakistan. It would be easier to incorporate pashtun areas in afghanistan with Pakistan than the other way around. Neither (afghanistanis and paki pashtuns) want it. In fact as pashtun communists and afghanistani nationalist keep blabbering insanities, they're further alienating the pashtuns across the international border in Pakistan. Even daud realized his inanity. Keep the hostilities up for a few decades longer, the two groups won't recognize each other, and may even start hating the other. It is the curse of nationalism. Osho makes sense on this one. Too bad sense isn't common to all.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

So I assume you believe they shouldn't have intervened to put an end to taliban rule?

The essential problem that people have with accepting this is morality versus strategy. For example, in an ideal world, the leader of a free Pakistan would have told Richard Armitage that he had to consult with the people of his nation before making a decision marrying himself to a war on terror. Then, a referendum to work for the US or remain neutral ought to have been put before the Pakistani people in some fashion. This is the preference of most of the freedom, truth, and peace loving people of the world.

However, strategists would beg to differ and say that refusing demands would have sealed the fate of the Pakistan and it would have been destroyed in the aftermath of 9/11 where America was out for blood. Therefore, the ISI and other groups have decided on an alternative strategy that results in bogging NATO powers into a war of attrition was preferrable. This invariably created a situation where there were "good taliban" and "bad taliban." When in reality, the aspirations and goals of Nek Muhammad, Omar Hotak, and Baitullah Mehsud do not really diverage that much. To those that refer to these folks as CIA agents and pawns I refer you to the deadly Khost bombing where Hakimullah Mehsud was videotaped with the bomber and was obviously a crucial player in the set up.

Therefore, the current strategy appears to be that the Pakistani machine plays for its own survival based on a formula of keepings its economy afloat with American dollars, but erases the technological edge of its enemy by bogging it down in a war of attrition. This machine understands that Hakimullah Mehsud cannot be ever seen as penetrating the Panjab heartland or having access/reach into Pakistan's arsenal as this would give the Americans a cause celebre to wage a Cambodian style intervention. Therefore, it warns the idealists/Islamists with punishing and indiscriminate fire power that Islamist whims and ire ought not touch Islamabad, but ought to be redirected into Afghanistan for the next decade or so to wear down NATO.

The slow destablization of Pakistan comes as a consequence of these actions ripping the nation apart at its seams at the behest of multiple groups of people with opposing desires/goals. The Army will likely see this and have to intervene at some point, telling the US openly that it can do no more.

My personal belief on this is that feudal Pakistan and the government does whatever it takes to preserve the integrity of Pakistan. The ISI has the same mindset... and will do whatever it takes to preserve Pakistan against all costs. If Pakistan saw a benefit arising from the "new" Afghanistan and decided its strategic depth policy was archaic and India no longer posed a threat, and this coupled to economic incentive, it might immediatly turn over every major insurgent player in its hands. However, with history as it stands, with India openly having funded successful groups like the Mukhdee Bahini in the past... Pakistani will never ever trust that history may not repeat itself.

In the end, I think the US strategists understand this is a lost war. The regime in Kabul will fall. The surge policy is an attempt to save face and at least create bargaining conditions. Where they bit off more than they can chew is that their enemies own the terrain and have an amazing capability to regenerate and utilize classic insurgent tactics. This will stretch into about another 15 years or so... but it will happen.

My goal with this thread was to brain storm about the peaceful and practical steps we can take to rejuvinate our standing as a unified people.