Barakzai: Where you stand

[BarakzaiAbdali]

If you are really a Pashtun then do some introspection and then tell me why are you are writing all this? Just due to your intellectual honesty you are debating with us and making a just case for your muslim Punjabi brothers. LOL. LOL. LOL.

I do not understand how you conflate my supporting the right of an Ahmedzai Wazir to fight in the Birmal vally for his beliefs as equivalent to supporting Panjabi hegemony.

[khyaal]

I do not recognize Bacha Khan and Shaheed Abdul Samad Khan in the same category as the Faqir due to their concurrence with Lenin, but certainly, I agree that these folks are occupants. However, I view Karzai and Fahim and Dostum as occupants as well.

So concurrence with lenin invalidate their claim and joining SEATO and SENTO and taking knighthood honors by many muslim leagures doesn't do any harm to the fortress of Islam. Edward Saeed too was a Christian just like George Hobash and Laila Khalid. Does it invalidate Palesitnian claim for the occupied land? LOL .Strange logic.

Once again though, I am pointing out that at this juncture an overwhelming faction of the NWFP appears to want to stay with Pakistan. I argued vehemently about the fact that all Pashtoons are Afghans with a group of Khybar med students and recieved a series of responses from pure blood Pashtuns about how this identification was unpalatable to them.

Things will change once the de facto control of Paki regime ends just as Pakis demands UN intervention in case of Kashmir.

I cannot advocate that these guys, who were youngins, and raised in that region, influenced by governmental policies, be chopped to pieces, killed, extorted, or forced to accept our rule. I also cannot tell the those fellows that they MUST accept Mr. Karzai as their president. If a truly representative Pashtoon government removes the occupier and seizes the region, I think it might become more palatable. It is unreasonable to destroy their lives for a land grab.

It is not mere influence. Pakistan has converted Pashtuns to some sub-human species and even they have forgotten to speak clearly in any language, let aside to talk of their fundamental rights in this world.

They are my brothers as you are. Just because I may disagree with you regarding secular vs ideological rule does not mean I will bloodily force you to accept me.

It is not a matter of secular vs ideological. State ideology may never remain the same for ever. I'm talking of Pashtuns occpied land in Pakistan.

That is why I prefer NONINTERVENTIONALISM.

But Pakistan has far exceeded its limit, it not only occupiies Pakhtunkhwa, it once captured the whole of Afghanistan to its proxies and is still lurking for the withdrawl of ISAF forces to re-colonize azad Afghanistan.

[Toramana]

I do not recognize Bacha Khan and Shaheed Abdul Samad Khan in the same category as the Faqir due to their concurrence with Lenin, but certainly, I agree that these folks are occupants. However, I view Karzai and Fahim and Dostum as occupants as well.

How? Could you explain that? How that concurrence?'Compared to Taleban, who have consistantly been propped up and pampered by the Punjab, didn't these people build their political career and leadership credentials by their own struggle, and so have more right to be the leaders of Pashtuns?

Your bigotary sometime make you non-sensical...sorry to say that Afghan Prince.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Michael Shuer brings some decent view points but he isn't the end all be all, he has some views that are not cogent as well. The man believed that another attack on America would wake the Americans up again. Clearly he could have made a better point.

About the Pakistan's security reasoning and you softening up to them, well then you should be fair and apply that to each and every state, including your own's military interventions. After all interfering in those countries were due to their political and cold-war considerations.

Most importantly every state has security concerns that is a given. It isn't the point to recognize them, but to ask yourself if these concerns of theirs allign with your own people. Pakistan's 30 years security policy has not and did not work out for the better when it came to Pashtuns, rather it was a terrible thing to happen. What pushed them to do it is one thing, whether or not it is beneficial to us is another.

With all due respect, I heartily disagree with your Jon Stewartesque representation of Scheuer. He clearly was pointing out that Americans do not understand and continue to not understand what this conflict means. His point in that comment was not to advocate an attack but rather to note the absurdity of Americans continuing to trust their ruling elites with interventionalism policies that stoke blowback.

My other posts delve into the Pakistan issue.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

How? Could you explain that? How that concurrence?'Compared to Taleban, who have consistantly been propped up and pampered by the Punjab, didn't these people build their political career and leadership credentials by their own dent, and so have more right to be the leaders of Pashtuns?

Your bigotary sometime make you non-sensical...sorry to say that Afghan Prince?

One stupid question after another. Per Talbot, Abdul Samad felt enlightened by the results of the Bolshevik revolution.

Sadly, it appears that the Tajik fellow who posted a little bit earlier understand the Pashtun mentality far better than you. Were you to say half the drivel you say in any village on either side of the border, regarding Muhammad and his companions, you would be stoned, drawn, quartered, and hung. I would not be an advocate of this, but it is the ground level reality.

Hardly a prince, but certainly a physician, and not a failed lab rat.

[khyaal]

[QUOTE=BarakzaiAbdali;265202]

However, a Pashtoon joining his brethren to oust an infidel invader is a fary cry from a drone worthy target. That, once again, is where I depart from you and the failed premedical student Toramana.

But then why did Punjabis fight for those infidels during the 1st and 2nd world wars to bring to an en the Ottoman Caliphate. Why did Pakis accept knighthood titles from the infidels? Why did they join SEATO and CENTO of those infidels against the muslim Afghanistan? Why did they receive billions of dollars and military aid from the infidel US and are still receing billion of dollars through Kerry-Lugar Bill? Why did Pakistan invite infidel US, received billions of dollars from them to fight a proxy war muslim afghans? Why have the closest relations with the indifidel chinese?

[Toramana]

With all due respect, I heartily disagree with your Jon Stewartesque representation of Scheuer. He clearly was pointing out that Americans do not understand and continue to not understand what this conflict means. His point in that comment was not to advocate an attack but rather to note the absurdity of Americans continuing to trust their ruling elites with interventionalism policies that stoke blowback.

My other posts delve into the Pakistan issue.

Barakzai, I really sometimes find you very irrational...you are qouting one this one source extranuously...By the way, why can't US diassociate itself from conflicts around the world....? What is the counter-view?

I agree with BLS when I notice you mention the complexities of Pakistani interventionism but then shut eyes to global power responsibilites/dynamics.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

[QUOTE=khyaal;265216]

But then why did Punjabis fight for those infidels during the 1st and 2nd world wars to bring to an en the Ottoman Caliphate. Why did Pakis accept knighthood titles from the infidels? Why did they join SEATO and CENTO of those infidels against the muslim Afghanistan? Why did they receive billions of dollars and military aid from the infidel US and are still receing billion of dollars through Kerry-Lugar Bill? Why did Pakistan invite infidel US, received billions of dollars from them to fight a proxy war muslim afghans? Why have the closest relations with the indifidel chinese?

What is your obsession with the Panjabis? I could not agree with you more. I truly admire how Marmaduke Pikthall called out his counteparts on this issue. It is one of the hardest things to reconcile how such a great mind like Yusuf Ali sided with the British Raj, and a darned shame as well.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai, I really sometimes find you very irrational...you are qouting one this one source extranuously...By the way, why can't US diassociate itself from conflicts around the world....? What is the counter-view?

I agree with BLS when I notice you mention the complexities of Pakistani interventionism but then shut eyes to global power responsibilites/dynamics.

Well I am glad to see it has shifted from always to sometimes. It appears that your saar is not all adookay.

This one source is excellent due to his leading the modern American Firster movement. There are others such as Bergen who find commonality in reasoning. Ralph Peters is not a bad source either.

You are almost to comprehending what I am saying. I am noting that the Panjab soldier interfering in Afghanistan is far different than the Bajauri or Orakzai tribesman that accepts arms from any group/organization and conducts a cross border raid against NATO.

[Toramana]

One stupid question after another, showing exactly why you couldnt make a real physician of yourself. Per Talbot, Abdul Samad felt enlightened by the results of the Bolshevik revolution.

That is ridiculous man...you fanacism is driving you into a dark end of a dead alley where you can't find any other light except the one you experienced outside...

You are prone to the same dogmatism in political thinking as you are to the one in religious concepts. Are you sure, the enlightement, which Talbot mentioned was very deep and extensive still reflecting in the policy of that party if it ever there was any?

[Toramana]

Well I am glad to see it has shifted from always to sometimes. It appears that your saar is not all adookay.

This one source is excellent due to his leading the modern American Firster movement. There are others such as Bergen who find commonality in reasoning. Ralph Peters is not a bad source either.

You are almost to comprehending what I am saying. I am noting that the Panjab soldier interfering in Afghanistan is far different than the Bajauri or Orakzai tribesman that accepts arms from any group/organization and conducts a cross border raid against NATO.

All I found you as someone reactionary, very single-minded, and extremly simpliston...only driven by blind revenge and animosity of the infidel ...without thinking that the consequences of the violent struggle of multiple tribal lashkars dis-unified and without any cohesion could be anything but grave...

We already are seeing Haqqanis, Ummars, and Gullbuddin ... recurrence of the same split/fissure that was in Jehad era...good Paki strategy to control them....

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well, lets see, there is practical evidence. Let us take his son, "Ole Make-Shift, Make Due, I somehow bought my Engineering Degree but couldn't use it" Mehmood, who if you are to comb through my past posts, was a Najib supporter (I even provided picture evidence). And now of course, you shall cry, "how dare you insult Najib!" Of course, and I will continue to insult a member of Khad who brutalized its people. He tried to become a chameleon and add ullah at the end of his name, but he ended up hanging from a pole.

And of course, as previously noted, the independent, NON PAKISTANI tribal analysis center discusses Mehmoods murderous rise to power:

"After the death of Abdul Samad Khan Achakzai (the father of the current leader of Amidzai, Mehmood Khan Achakzai), the most favored person to represent Achakzai

was Haji Mohammed Khan Achakzai. His desire for reunification with

Afghanistan’s Achakzai caused the Pakistani Government to believe that Haji Mohammed Khan could reunite the Pashtun territory in Afghanistan, which would remove a quarter of Pakistan. They prevented this by causing enmity within the tribe. Mehmood Khan wanted to succeed his father, AbdulSamad Khan, in the tribe’s leadership and with the help of ISI, he killed Haji Mohammed Khan and two of his sons in 1990 and declared himself as the new Achakzai leader. The Ghabizais are still a powerful tribe and control Pakistan’s Gulistan district."

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...ai%20Tribe.pdf

I suggest you contact the American funded and backed tribal analysis center regarding any corrections and make sure this is done. Otherwise you have a conundrum. It appears that you, rather than I, support the ISI per 'Murdering Mehmoods" rise to power. And it appears that you, rather than I are standing in the way of Pashtun reunification.

Ah how quickly the tide turns on the stupid.

[Toramana]

Well, lets see, there is practical evidence. Let us take his son, "Ole Make-Shift, Make Due, I somehow bought my Engineering Degree but couldn't use it" Mehmood, who if you are to comb through my past posts, was a Najib supporter (I even provided picture evidence). And now of course, you shall cry, "how dare you insult Najib!" Of course, and I will continue to insult a member of Khad who brutalized its people. He tried to become a chameleon and add ullah at the end of his name, but he ended up hanging from a pole.

And of course, as previously noted, the independent, NON PAKISTANI tribal analysis center discusses Mehmoods murderous rise to power:

"After the death of Abdul Samad Khan Achakzai (the father of the current leader of Amidzai, Mehmood Khan Achakzai), the most favored person to represent Achakzai

was Haji Mohammed Khan Achakzai. His desire for reunification with

Afghanistan’s Achakzai caused the Pakistani Government to believe that Haji Mohammed Khan could reunite the Pashtun territory in Afghanistan, which would remove a quarter of Pakistan. They prevented this by causing enmity within the tribe. Mehmood Khan wanted to succeed his father, AbdulSamad Khan, in the tribe’s leadership and with the help of ISI, he killed Haji Mohammed Khan and two of his sons in 1990 and declared himself as the new Achakzai leader. The Ghabizais are still a powerful tribe and control Pakistan’s Gulistan district."

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...ai%20Tribe.pdf

I suggest you contact the American funded and backed tribal analysis center regarding any corrections and make sure this is done. Otherwise you have a conundrum. It appears that you, rather than I, support the ISI per 'Murdering Mehmoods" rise to power. And it appears that you, rather than I are standing in the way of Pashtun reunification.

Ah how quickly the tide turns on the stupid.

Barakzai or Afghan Prince or Pakistani Prince whatever you are quote me something credible ....That tribal ananlysis group is anything but shame in the name of research...I have read its few documents...e.g., one document speculates "probably, the elders who established Deoband were Pashtuns"....and there were dozens and dozens of "probabalistic assertions".....This is no research...this is prostituting research...

I petty on you you often rely on weak material

[Toramana]

Ummm, the failed med student insult really got to you. Seems to have gotten you repeating yourself like a broken record, blind with rage that a "pan Islamist" is farther along than you are. Look, if it hurt that much, I apologise. Seriously, don't go to sleep angry, its not good for you because the studies are really pending on how stress and type A personalities end up clogging up the coronaries and promoting inflammation.

Convince me how could splintered tribal lashkars not be manipulated...I just want to see the soundness of your approach....

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai or Afghan Prince or Pakistani Prince whatever you are quote me something credible ....That tribal ananlysis group is anything but shame in the name of research...I have read its few documents...e.g., one document speculates "probably, the elders who established Deoband were Pashtuns"....and there were dozens and dozens of "probablistic assertions".....This is no research...this is prostituting research...

I petty on you you often rely on weak material

OK, look forget this stuff, we are never going to agree. I really do apologise for the rude commentary and will remove it. I am sure you are a professional in whatever you do.

You noted you are a scientist, what do you study/research?