70% of Afghan women are raped via forced marriages

[khushal]

They choose to enter or not enter those institutions; no one makes them go. They're aware that their inhibitions will be lowered Everyone knows what to expect. It's not morally right but they choose it for themselves so injustice cannot be invoked


You're presenting a false dichotomy here; the RIGHT to CHOOSE is what's morally right, not the action itself necessarily.

The right to choose is morally right I agree but with no corruption then and only than does a person have free choice. Like I said a person that has had alcohol cant consent so rape is occurring at a higher rate in the west.

Your naive to think that culture has no effect on society. 200 years ago nobody wore miniskirts in the west, are you telling me that hey chose not to wear them or was it that it was culturally or socially unacceptable for them to do so. It is the media that has influence of what is culturally or socially acceptable. The media does not always promote what is morally right or wrong, they are only looking for profit since media is a business. Therefore it is corrupt and choice is manipulated.

Excuses excuses; and if Rainn.com can be used by you as "evidennce" so can this; they use statistical data in the same way; equal level.

Your denial in this issue is simply Pashtun ego buddy

no they are not the same. I have no evidence that Rainn.com is corrupt or at war with anyone but I do have evidence that your source is corrupt and at war so lies and manipulaltion is very likely. I need evidence on how this study was concluded because 80% is impossible and if you give me evidence on how it was concluded, I am more than sure it is not accurate. With that I will say that 80% arranged marriages is the likely scenerio. That I believe is true.

[Kurmewal]

The White people who wrote this report clearly cannot understand the difference between arranged and forced marriages.

[khushal]

That's your own PERSONAL narration , framed around your beliefs; there is no evidential or logical construct which corroborates this narrative. The reason you want to see it as abuse is to comfort your own warped cultural views where you see women being subjugated and forced to do sexual acts as a normal way of life

It is not my own personal narration. It is fact. Why do alcohol serving establishments have a "ladies night" where ladies are served free drinks all they can drink while the men are charged twice the amount they should be. Why do men always buy women drinks and not vise versa. You do know what marketing is and how it works. They attract the women with free drinks and prizes if they are dressed procatively, so they intoxicate them, so the predators(men) can come and swoop them up and take advantage of them while they are incoherent. Its all a scam and manipulation but the sad thing is that it is socially acceptable for them to do this. If you explain this to a pashtun form pashtunland, they would view this as rape. To you this is fun and having a good time and free choice because you have been raised to believe so by your environment.

[/quote]
I see in the West, I don't see Western men protecting their women, I see the western legal system allowing women the right to empower themselves and choose their own decisions. Not allowing others to directly coerce them. If you want to argue that western women are "manipulated" into making those decisions, I may agree with you.

But EVEN then, that's superior to being FORCED into marriage and thus being FORCED into sex,as these women STILL have a choice.
[/quote]

Thats because they have been given financial freedom and sexual freedom. That is only possible if you de-tribalize the pashtuns and then build schools that have a sex education and family planning criteria. You must have a campaign to make "birth control" socially acceptable. You must promote singles events so singles can meet people, promote safe sex, abortion clinics to control birth from one night stands by mistake because they were too intoxicated to put on a condom and think logically.
Your naive and utterly incompetent to think that you could bring western norms to pashtunland.

grasping for whatever social downfalls exist in the West doesn't change that for women the West is better off than Pashtun society.

This is debatable. You have broken families in the west but Pashtuns regard having the family intact as the most important element of life. To a pashtun life is not worth living if the family is broken up. This is so because in pashtunland survival is difficult without family.
Many of my American friends tell me that in this society, marriage is designed to fail. They even joke about when they introduce their girlfriends, they say meet my future ex-wife. Now imagine a pashtun form pashtunland saying that. He would kill himself before uttering such words.

[khushal]

why wont the pics post?

[khushal]

yeah this guy clearly had no choice in the matter.

you dont know what the situation between these two are. most people in afghanistan arrange a marriage of their daughter to someone that can take care of their daughter financially. They have the means to provide food, shelter, and medicine. She could have been married to a young man that could provide nothing because he would have been a drug addict. This man is most likely rich, has a good position in the society. much like this lovely couple. ( pic of anna nicole smith and her husband) pic wont post for some reason.

[khushal]

Well with rape studies BOTH in the West and outside, they go by sample spaces, I think there is a sufficiently large sample space to determine whether these young girls being married off are consenting or not.

noone is asking for what you think. we need evidence which you can not provide. Pashtunas in pashtunland wont admit to choosing her husband, thats socially unaccpetable.

[faye]

khushal, you are so funny.
women can be just as much predators as men and some deliberately go to an establishment for the free booze. so, your constant claims about the dumb broad being manipulated is not always correct.
a business will have those kind of nights, yes, to get more women to a place and thence to attract more men ie;cutomers. but it is not to get the women off their faces to have sex with them it is so the business makes more money!

as i said before, people are still capable of making sound choices when they have had alcohol. depends how much they have been drinking.

i am not defending alcohol consumption per se, but you keep saying things that are extreme generalisations.
you appear to think of women as mentally deficient in that decisions need to be made for them by men. LOL
women can make bad decisions but you are living in a male chauvanistic dreamworld if you delude yourself that women don't have a brain of their own and should not be allowed to make their own decisions but men should be able to.
in pashtun society it appears that the woman has to be constantly on the alert as to how she behaves, covering their faces and having to play the role imposed upon them, by a society/family that will allow the brother or father to murder them, if they 'misbehave' or show that allah gave them a will of their own.
the men are allowed to dance, play music, go swimming, hang out and have fun, have many wives, whilst the women don't appear to be allowed to do these things. that they are considered immoral if WOMEN do them but not if MEN do them.

does that not appear to be hypocritical? since the women do the job of carrying the babies in their womb and in afghanistan, are in danger to lose their lives due to birthing problems and lack of medical facilities, especially if very young, should they not be allowed to be a more equal part of a society?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It is not my own personal narration. It is fact. Why do alcohol serving establishments have a "ladies night" where ladies are served free drinks all they can drink while the men are charged twice the amount they should be. Why do men always buy women drinks and not vise versa. You do know what marketing is and how it works. They attract the women with free drinks and prizes if they are dressed procatively, so they intoxicate them, so the predators(men) can come and swoop them up and take advantage of them while they are incoherent. Its all a scam and manipulation but the sad thing is that it is socially acceptable for them to do this. If you explain this to a pashtun form pashtunland, they would view this as rape. To you this is fun and having a good time and free choice because you have been raised to believe so by your environment.

The dysfunctional nature of Western society aside; they still have a choice; if they want to play the game, that's their own fault.



Western dysfunction < Afghan dysfunction.

Thats because they have been given financial freedom and sexual freedom. That is only possible if you de-tribalize the pashtuns and then build schools that have a sex education and family planning criteria. You must have a campaign to make "birth control" socially acceptable. You must promote singles events so singles can meet people, promote safe sex, abortion clinics to control birth from one night stands by mistake because they were too intoxicated to put on a condom and think logically.
Your naive and utterly incompetent to think that you could bring western norms to pashtunland.

Your argument presents false dichotomy; to eliminate rape and sexual exploitation of women, you don't need to abandon traditional values of family. You just need to teach the value of women. In that instance all your suggestions are not just redundant but overkill/

This is debatable. You have broken families in the west but Pashtuns regard having the family intact as the most important element of life.

even that's false since most of the squabbles in Afghanistan, murders of women, creation of widows, abuse of women in general and many others are done by family members. Moving on.

Given that the Western family at it's most broken is more in tact than the Pashtun family at its most in fact. In fact even with all the MTV loose youth culture you seem to believe is the "norm" of America; I find that there are stronger families here in AMerica. And looking at the divorce rate of Afghans in America seems to EXCEED THAT than the National average by a LARGE margin. The claim you make is just the typical Pashtun bull****tery we were raised on from our youth.



This demonstrates your argument is nothing but an Emotional Appeal AT BEST.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you dont know what the situation between these two are. most people in afghanistan arrange a marriage of their daughter to someone that can take care of their daughter financially. They have the means to provide food, shelter, and medicine. She could have been married to a young man that could provide nothing because he would have been a drug addict. This man is most likely rich, has a good position in the society. much like this lovely couple. ( pic of anna nicole smith and her husband) pic wont post for some reason.

[IMG]

yeah all 8 year old girls long to get their vaginas ripped open by grown men. and this old man, clearly forced, I mean sure Pastuns brag about their so called independent nature, can't be governed by anyone but suddenly this old man is forced into marrying an 8 year old. There must be some sort of reasonable back story.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The White people who wrote this report clearly cannot understand the difference between arranged and forced marriages.

I know ....an arranged marriage in our culture is when parents decide who their daughter's spouse will be

a forced marriage is when a daughter can't choose her spouse and must marry who their parents tell them.
duuuuh

White people, can't they see the difference? I mean I sure can.

[khushal]

khushal, you are so funny.
women can be just as much predators as men and some deliberately go to an establishment for the free booze. so, your constant claims about the dumb broad being manipulated is not always correct.
a business will have those kind of nights, yes, to get more women to a place and thence to attract more men ie;cutomers. but it is not to get the women off their faces to have sex with them it is so the business makes more money!
as i said before, people are still capable of making sound choices when they have had alcohol. depends how much they have been drinking.
i am not defending alcohol consumption per se, but you keep saying things that are extreme generalisations.
you appear to think of women as mentally deficient in that decisions need to be made for them by men. LOL
women can make bad decisions but you are living in a male chauvanistic dreamworld if you delude yourself that women don't have a brain of their own and should not be allowed to make their own decisions but men should be able to.
in pashtun society it appears that the woman has to be constantly on the alert as to how she behaves, covering their faces and having to play the role imposed upon them by a family that will allow the brother or father, to murder them if they 'misbehave' or show that allah gave them a will of their own.
the men are allowed to dance, play music, go swimming, hang out and have fun, whilst the women don't appear to be allowed to do these things. that they are considered immoral if they do.
does that not appear to be hypocritical? since the women do the job of carrying the babies in their womb and in afghanistan, are in danger to lose their lives due to birthing problems and lack of medical facilities, especially if very young, should they not be allowed to be a more equal part of a society?

your on your blabbering phase again. Your going on your stereotypes, I dont blame you but the media you listen to. Lets correct this.

1. both men and women have to be alert on how they behave
2. pashtun men and women can dance, go swimming, hang out and have fun but in a segregated environment.
3. fathers and brothers killing their wives or sisters is stereotype. this happens but it is very insignificant. men kill their women and children in the west all the time.

As far as the alcohol consumption goes and the manipulation that happens with it. I would like to ask you a question since you think you know more about western culture than I do. Can you explain to me why these "bars" are on the scene everywhere but 200 years ago, they hardly existed everywhere. Why is it socially acceptable for women to wear mini skirts today but 200 years ago it would have been unthinkable. I will await your answer.

[khushal]

yeah all 8 year old girls long to get their vaginas ripped open by grown men. and this old man, clearly forced, I mean sure Pastuns brag about their so called independent nature, can't be governed by anyone but suddenly this old man is forced into marrying an 8 year old. There must be some sort of reasonable back story.

Its money dummy. The guy has money and can take care of the girl. This happens in the west as well.

[faye]

lol, i was just counterblabbering your blabber, dear.

did they not have saloon bars and pubs 200 years ago? i think they did. were they only for men? i think at some point they were. i think women wanted to equally be allowed in the bars and pubs.

what about mini skirts? some native peoples wore nix. some had natural fibre skirts or furs. the europeans would have been wearing all those ridiculous petticoats, bodices and
long skirts. why? what about it?
i will await your answers

[khushal]

The dysfunctional nature of Western society aside; they still have a choice; if they want to play the game, that's their own fault.

Western dysfunction < Afghan dysfunction.

Thats your opinion. thank you for sharing. Its not a choice when everyone is doing it. There is peer pressure and people are naive to go along with whatever society demands of them. Its a survival instinct that plays a role.

It becomes a choice when majority are choosing right over wrong. When majority are choosing wrong over right, than there is something wrong with the societies system of living. Something is making that society to make wrong decisions. Media plays a hige role in our decision making. Media is a profit business. They dont care if we make good decisions or bad decisions, they care about profit margin so therefore wrong decisions are encouraged when profit is seen and the society is falling victims to them is corruption.

Your argument presents false dichotomy; to eliminate rape and sexual exploitation of women, you don't need to abandon traditional values of family. You just need to teach the value of women. In that instance all your suggestions are not just redundant but overkill/

Pashtuns have the traditional value of family. Women are abused because the environment is tough to survive in. harsh envronment = harsh life for men and women.

even that's false since most of the squabbles in Afghanistan, murders of women, creation of widows, abuse of women in general and many others are done by family members. Moving on.

sure the pilots that are bombing civilians are relatives of the people they are bombing. The war is caused by family squabble. OK what ever you say.

Given that the Western family at it's most broken is more in tact than the Pashtun family at its most in fact. In fact even with all the MTV loose youth culture you seem to believe is the "norm" of America; I find that there are stronger families here in AMerica. And looking at the divorce rate of Afghans in America seems to EXCEED THAT than the National average by a LARGE margin. The claim you make is just the typical Pashtun bull****tery we were raised on from our youth.

This demonstrates your argument is nothing but an Emotional Appeal AT BEST.

where did you get that the afghan divorce rate in america is higher than the national average. please provide evidence of this. I know not one afghan family in america that has had a divorce. When I say afghan, I mean pashtun.

how is the american family when broken more entact than the afghan family. you make claims but can not back it up. dont just rant but explain yourself.

[khushal]

lol, i was just counterblabbering your blabber, dear.

did they not have saloon bars and pubs 200 years ago? i think they did. were they only for men? i think at some point they were. i think women wanted to equally be allowed in the bars and pubs.

what about mini skirts? some native peoples wore nix. some had natural fibre skirts or furs. the europeans would have been wearing all those ridiculous petticoats, bodices and
long skirts. why? what about it?
i will await your answers

you have failed to answer the question just like I knew you would. case closed.