Its really shocking

[Badlun]

Whenever I think about Pashtuns and development, I get shocking news and alarming data.Pashtuns are backward in almost all aspects of life except illiteracy, poverty, drugs, terrorism, war, fighting, clashes, deforestation, sectarianism, desertification, population explosion, corruption and many other social, economic, cultural , religious and political evils.

Why it is so? I never understand. Is it something wrong in Pashtuns themselves or they are being victimized for the last 4000 years of their known history. But how a nation can be victimized for such a long time by others, If it is then they are the most gullible and stupid people on the surface of the earth to be abuses and manupulutated by other for centuries and centuries.

Pashtuns dont have their own country exclusively. Almost 60 % of them live in Pakistan but they are just 14 % of the total population. In Afghanistan almost 40 % Pashtuns live and they are in majority(about 60%). In Pakistan they are further divided in to Tribal areas, Khyber Pashtunkhwah and Balochistan.

If we take Afghanistan as the representative country of Pahstuns then we see the shocking figures that
CIA World Factbook 2008 estimates Life expectancy ranked 208 out of 211 countries and territories
Total immigrant population ranked 137 out of 192 countries
IMD International: World Competitiveness Yearbook 2005, not ranked among top 60 economies
The Wall Street Journal: Index of Economic Freedom 2008, ranked x out of 157 countries
The Economist: Quality-of-Life Index 2005, not ranked among top 111 countries
World Economic Forum: Global Competitiveness Report 2008-2009, ranked x out of 125 countries

KOF: Index of Globalization 2007, not ranked out of 122 countries
A.T. Kearney/Foreign Policy Magazine: Globalization Index 2006, not ranked out of 62 countries

United Nations: Human Development Index 2007, ranked 174 out of 180 countries

University of Leicester Satisfaction with Life Index 2006, not ranked among top 178 countries

If we search for any data on development we find Afghanistan at the lowest ranks. I am really worried how Pashtuns can become a developed nation like other nations of the world.

In Pakistan the only developed and industrial areas are in Punjab or urban Sindh. All Pashtun areas dont have any sizable industry and there is no zone for the products of international trade

Do you have some concrete proposals for the leaders of Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan so that these can be implemented for the rise of a new developed Pashtun nation.

[یاسمینه]

Well, I could be wrong in what Im gonna say. I also wouldn't want anyone think I criticize Pashtuns. I'm the last person who could do that. But I'd like to share some observations.

I think that the strong tribalism is the factor which makes that Pashtun society and Afghanistan are different and that they need to develop new pattersn which take into account yout traditional values and structures. Copying Western models of of governance and development will not work out. I also think that centralized authority is incompatible with stron tribal structure.
I think Afghanistan should stay away from foreign advisors who in majority don't uderstand the local reality, mentality of people, rich and complex culture.
This is the biggst error making by foreigners - they try to sort your world out according to foreign standards. I could give you few examples - like failure of the Helmand Valley Project or more contemporary - the idea of moving waste dumps to the outskirts of Kabul (the idea per se was good, but authors forgot about few important things).
Anyway, cultural aspects should never be ignored.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Until the day Pashtuns unite, none of this will change. And by unity, I mean complete political, social, economic and ideological unity.

If we trace the reason for the wars and instability in Afghanistan, we come back to Pakistan. Pakistan doesn't want a stable Afghanistan. In fact, a stable and prosperous Afghanistan is a threat to Pakistan's existence. So Pakistan will do everything it can to ensure that Afghanistan does not prosper. Why is Afghanistan a threat to Pakistan? Because Pakistan's western belt consists of ethnic Pashtuns. An affluent Afghanistan will reinvigorate nationalist sentiments within the Pashtun population in Pakistan and that will lead to the disintegration of the country. It's a safer bet to try and control Taliban-militants in Afghanistan than it is to try to come to a diplomatic understanding with Kabul.

Pakistan will also keep the Pashtuns within its borders divided into different provinces and encourage conservative, anti-reform and state-friendly clerics to come into power there. All of this will be done to ensure that the Pashtuns in Pakistan do not unite under a common banner or unite to rejoin Afghanistan.

Now given that the only way to bring the Pashtun people out of perpetual poverty, illiteracy, unhappiness and lives riddled with disease and malnutrition is by massive reform projects, we have to admit that until foreigners stop meddling with the affairs of Pashtuns and stop supporting war and militancy within our homeland, we will continue to languish behind the rest of the world.

[Tjanaparh]

Osho - what is bad in increasing population? To high increase in peacfull countries have to high population , is one.
But excuse me when people will think like in the west not to have children - they will dissapear from the world with all the wars put uppon the people.
The west tends to keep a horde of deadly ill people who cannot exist without machinary intervention. tends to promuove people to become gays , but it accuses poorer countries in having to many children, what is the most natural.

[یاسمینه]

@Osho - there is also avaible Human Development Report 2010. In HD Index 2010 Afghanistan is ranked 155 out of 169 countries (25 countries which has not been classified)

@Arevapasht - Afghanistan has the highest birth rate in the world (6,9 as I remember). In theory is nothing wrong with. But if you combine this data with estimation of population growth saying that in 2025 population of Afghanistan will reach 47 million and in 2050 - 76 millions you will realize that such growth can be dangerous for the country.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Yasmeenaah - in the situation Afghanistan is now - that is perhaps the only way to survive. Immagine what would happen when in Afghanistan would be a birthrate like in russia or europe ....
A think the situation of today justifies this tendence - it is natuarl that that happens, and what is natural is right.
It is enough to see the news to understand howmany people get killed everyday buy various reasons. How many people live abroad...
Hopefully the situation of Pashtun people will change to better till 2050

[یاسمینه]

@Arevapasht - I think there are some values between 6,9 and lets say 1,2 Have you think what happens if the population will duble during 40 years (in fact more than double). How to feed almost 80 million people (in the country where 60% are mountainous and cultivated area is very small) , provide primary health care, vaccinations etc. I think it won't help in development.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Yasmeenaah , I understand fully Your fear on that - but there are Ways to resolve it even with such a population - but look how many people looses the county because of bombings every day - how many left the country.
With some agriculturally advanced ecologial methods many things Are possible, without big investments - the wester agriculture type is a dangerous one for example, but at least Afghanistan has high possibilities to develop even on poor soils good agriculture!
It has also one positive detail to most of other countries, I read it in a bok of a russion Botanist Vavilov who was killed during soviet regieme and studied Afghanistans plants - he tells that Afghanistan is one of the richest places for new potentially usefull fruits and vegetables growing only there - that as a very big thing as those plants are already adapted to the place they grow and do not need toomuch watering, herbicides and so on to grow - they need peace in the country to give patriotic people time to take care and develop a cultivation for example of their own local plants which will surely grow on Afghanistans soils.
Healthcare - the healthcare the west represents with its medicines its technics has a lot of falsehood(you can at least believe me as a person who is involved in healthcare).
If education in rright way is provided you can grow a healthy and strong Youth without any bigger investments. The western healthcare model is a type of bringing poor cultures under their dipendence(of the Pharmaceutical industries).
Also vaccination isn't always an as positive event.
Primary healthcare dear Yasmeenaah - is education - and if there is a problem that causes diseases it is eduction.
Educating people physically strong and with strong spirit is the first step of keeping people healthy.
also here Pashtun people have at least some positive points that help to get easier forward than other countries- at least there is hopefully(I am not informed but I think so) no need to make anti alcohol campains.
Almost every disease comes from ourselves and with education You can keep a good health level of a big population.
At least Afghanistan isn'T a small country - here in armenia we have only few stones - thats our country - even Badakhshan is bigger than my country - and they have often no knowledge of how to make good agriculture after soviet times - but at least most products are local on the market and we can feed ourselfs with our stony land. Why shouldn't Pashtun people have the same possibility. On some photos Afghanistan and Pashtun populated areas in Pakistan look like an agricultural paradise!

[یاسمینه]

@Arevapasht - I think we both have partially right.

Agriculture - I'd like to draw your attention to the problem of water in Afghanistan. I mean problem with distribution of water which is essential in agriculture. Kilometers of irrigation system have been ruined during last 40 years. Lots of local experts on building and maintaining irrigation channels died.
When it comes to agriculture there is also another problem - do you think all ethnic groups want to be involved in agriculture? I am not sure about Pashtuns. As I remember it's something what doesn't belong to their activity (it was one of reasons of failure of Hellmand Valley project). So there may be wonderful and cheap ecological methods but they have to take into account local realities. So what works out in Armenia, it doesn't have to work exactly in the same way in Afghanistan.

Medicine - I was a scientist, cancer epidemiologist.... so I know something about

Education - it only sounds simple. Education for who? For boys or girls or for both? What with girls in areas where there is no schools and where is no one in the family to escort the girl to school? Another problem - if family wants to send kids to school or not. Some doesn't see this need.
Free schools don't solve the problem. Some families are just poor and they prefere to send kids to work for 1 USD per day. Time spent at school is perceived as unprofitable.
And what about education for Kuchis?

I don't want to deprive Pashtuns/Afghanistan of possibility for better future. I just realize that Afghanistan in many aspects is a very unique country and it requires very clever ideas.

[Tjanaparh]

@Arevapasht - I think we both have partially right.

Agriculture - I'd like to draw your attention to the problem of water in Afghanistan. I mean problem with distribution of water which is essential in agriculture. Kilometers of irrigation system have been ruined during last 40 years. Lots of local experts on building and maintaining irrigation channels died.
When it comes to agriculture there is also another problem - do you think all ethnic groups want to be involved in agriculture? I am not sure about Pashtuns. As I remember it's something what doesn't belong to their activity (it was one of reasons of failure of Hellmand Valley project). So there may be wonderful and cheap ecological methods but they have to take into account local realities. So what works out in Armenia, it doesn't have to work exactly in the same way in Afghanistan.

Medicine - I was a scientist, cancer epidemiologist.... so I know something about

Education - it only sounds simple. Education for who? For boys or girls or for both? What with girls in areas where there is no schools and where is no one in the family to escort the girl to school? Another problem - if family wants to send kids to school or not. Some doesn't see this need.
Free schools don't solve the problem. Some families are just poor and they prefere to send kids to work for 1 USD per day. Time spent at school is perceived as unprofitable.
And what about education for Kuchis?

I don't want to deprive Pashtuns/Afghanistan of possibility for better future. I just realize that Afghanistan in many aspects is a very unique country and it requires very clever ideas.

You are surely right dear Yasmeenaah. I even do not want to pretend that something in our countries can work the same - as even except ofthe people many things are different. But still a solution regarding food can be found, for example what I told won'T need too much work . Water is surely a big problem
Medicine - we worked I think in a similar field I used to work on microRNAs related to cancer.
I didn't say education is simple to organize - it is the most difficult thing to do - and even not because of money. But because of real teachers - it is even in first line not how a school is organized but again depending on the teachers - and this is a big problem everywhere.
Every place has positive and negative sides.
I am surely not informed on the situation of school in afghanistan , but if You say me that there are those problems you cited , it can be taken from a positive side - at least there is freedom not to have to fight against an already strongly evolved but sick education system.
So what can be done can be done at least on a level that would be corresponding to the population without forcing people and changing their culture!
And You are absolutely right it has to be thought and done intellegent - surely not like we discuss it here, but with every aspect You (intended as You people from Your country) can mention - is an aspecct more to elaborate.
I in this sense cannot say anything as I have my own country with its own specific problems and different mentality.
What we can do is discuss at least some issues on healthcare, if we have both that type of specialization

[kakargirl]

When were pashtuns really given a chance? and i disagree with you Osho , in southern not everyone is illiterate like you think some people are carrying double phds but still are head of a jirgas and live the tribal ways, where pashtun's have been given a chance to make something they have managed to develop whole areas open businesses and schools, made roads list goes on, everything is about being given a chance to make it when your constantly under war and the things you have made are destroyed your back to square one ,and don't tell me the west is helping cos their not after blowing up their solid houses and killing pashtuns they throw a few tents.

[Toramana]

I think some things that Osho says may be true. But most of the time I see him to be kind of unnecessarily pessimistic. Pashtuns despite that their land has been a battle ground for war of hegemony between foreign powers (esp last two centuries) and they also having defended their freedom as much as possible for them have neither fared bad in history nor are too bad at present. Rather, I will say they have a reasonable level of human development. Political unity is what remains to be achieved by Pashtuns to move faster on.

The day they got united in their own state or any of the present states, they will make a huge difference. Pashtun society is inherently egilitarian, is fit for kind of democratic state model and the ensuing benefits as we see in most of the modern world. Also, don't forget that Pashtuns are very very competitive and that competition starts right from our homes and manifests in the outer levels of our society, in which a Pashtun strives to match another Pashtun in prestige and status.

I hope Osho doesn't spread further despondency.

[Soldat_Amir]

Amanullah Khan should have crushed anti state clerics right from the start and placed a wall against British Interests.

We are in the current situation due to the fact our backward side of the community has a large say in our affairs and conduct in the hewad.

I dont think blaiming foreigners would do much good, our society as a whole is extremely backward and recultant to progress and modernise.

Take the example of some Pashtuns, who violently opposed female education during the reforms in Afghanistan, or the way Afghan leaders were brutally executed, hunged infront of others.

Other countries have contributed to our downfall, but our problems are due to us, we have allowed this to happen, when influxes of Punjabi and Arab militants enter our villages in armed escorts, our people never confronted them from the right, instead they made money by selling them items double the price.

We have a plague called Tribalism, whereby tribes fight eachother to this day over minor issues.

Take the example of Wazirs and Maseed, even Islam cant unify them, just a few weeks ago, the Taliban under Mullah Nazeer made a ultimatum that no Maseed are allowed into Wana, especially orders from Pakistan Army.

We dont have a nation, we are divided into two parts, and many provinces, our Pashtun leadership dont do much beside make videos and sing songs about our bravery, which is also questionable.

Most of the educated Pashtuns live abroad hence hardly any skilled workers in Afghanistan which causes many problems in regards to development.

Every village leader, is his own president, lawlessness, Militant Jihadism, tribalism.....thats why I blame the past leaders, they should have reform Afghan society by brute force,

Mullah Omar did this, but he did it the wrong way, instead of reforming Afghanistan forward, he did it backward, by banning tv, music, art and culture, glorifying public executions, banning of any female rights, allow an influx of Jihadi militant groups...etc

[JAMALUDEEN]

Amanullah Khan should have crushed anti state clerics right from the start and placed a wall against British Interests.

We are in the current situation due to the fact our backward side of the community has a large say in our affairs and conduct in the hewad.

This is a contradiction to your previous posts as i have noticed from your other posts. On one side, you want democracy where people have freedom of speech and choice and yet you want to crush the anti state clerics freedom of speech and choice.

I dont think blaiming foreigners would do much good, our society as a whole is extremely backward and recultant to progress and modernise.

You live in England, therefore you are not part of the Afghan Society, you are actually part of the English society. Similarly, I'm part of the society of the country i am currently residing in. You also have more in common with the English people, than you do with your fellow Afghans and Pashtuns.

Take the example of some Pashtuns, who violently opposed female education during the reforms in Afghanistan, or the way Afghan leaders were brutally executed, hunged infront of others.

"Some" Pashtuns can be a few pashtuns, so few people cannot be the image of the whole race. So it doesn't mean that all pashtuns are violent.

Take the example of Wazirs and Maseed, even Islam cant unify them, just a few weeks ago, the Taliban under Mullah Nazeer made a ultimatum that no Maseed are allowed into Wana, especially orders from Pakistan Army.

You speak as if all the Wazirs and Maseeds are like this, therefore you are making a hasty generalisation.

[AFG21]

Afghanistan is the exampel of a country were stupid peopel rule and intelegent ones are killed or run away abroad. That's what you get.