Its really shocking

[Soldat_Amir]

This is a contradiction to your previous posts as i have noticed from your other posts. On one side, you want democracy where people have freedom of speech and choice and yet you want to crush the anti state clerics freedom of speech and choice.





You live in England, therefore you are not part of the Afghan Society, you are actually part of the English society. Similarly, I'm part of the society of the country i am currently residing in. You also have more in common with the English people, than you do with your fellow Afghans and Pashtuns.



"Some" Pashtuns can be a few pashtuns, so few people cannot be the image of the whole race. So it doesn't mean that all pashtuns are violent.



You speak as if all the Wazirs and Maseeds are like this, therefore you are making a hasty generalisation.

Most of the Ahmedzai Wazirs in Wana opposed Mahsuds, I guess you have not read about the history of Waziristan. Mahsuds took a lot of land from the Wazirs when they came out of logar,khost and started to fight with Wazirs for better fertile lands.

Take the example of the village of Karamay, use to be populated by Wazirs, Mahsuds took over, came can be the case about Lakki Market, Both Wazir,Mahsud and many other tribes have tried their best to take it over.

Tribaliam is very vibrant within our community and Islam cant stop it unless you produce some modern reforms.

I was born in DI Khan,Pakhtunkhwa, been to Waziristan recently, unlike you.

Yes I am not part of the Jahiltub/Backward side of Afghan/Pashtun society, Thank al mightly Odin for that, but Yes I am very much part of the more progressive side of Afghan/Pashtun society, you know, the type that actually want good to be done for the people instead of Importing Backwardness from Desert lands far away.

[al-arab]

Amanullah Khan should have crushed anti state clerics right from the start and placed a wall against British Interests.

We are in the current situation due to the fact our backward side of the community has a large say in our affairs and conduct in the hewad.

I dont think blaiming foreigners would do much good, our society as a whole is extremely backward and recultant to progress and modernise.

Take the example of some Pashtuns, who violently opposed female education during the reforms in Afghanistan, or the way Afghan leaders were brutally executed, hunged infront of others.

Other countries have contributed to our downfall, but our problems are due to us, we have allowed this to happen, when influxes of Punjabi and Arab militants enter our villages in armed escorts, our people never confronted them from the right, instead they made money by selling them items double the price.

We have a plague called Tribalism, whereby tribes fight eachother to this day over minor issues.

Take the example of Wazirs and Maseed, even Islam cant unify them, just a few weeks ago, the Taliban under Mullah Nazeer made a ultimatum that no Maseed are allowed into Wana, especially orders from Pakistan Army.

We dont have a nation, we are divided into two parts, and many provinces, our Pashtun leadership dont do much beside make videos and sing songs about our bravery, which is also questionable.

Most of the educated Pashtuns live abroad hence hardly any skilled workers in Afghanistan which causes many problems in regards to development.

Every village leader, is his own president, lawlessness, Militant Jihadism, tribalism.....thats why I blame the past leaders, they should have reform Afghan society by brute force,

Mullah Omar did this, but he did it the wrong way, instead of reforming Afghanistan forward, he did it backward, by banning tv, music, art and culture, glorifying public executions, banning of any female rights, allow an influx of Jihadi militant groups...etc

Lol what stupidity. Dispite this all you do here is to claim that all of your problems are somehow related to a few fanatic Arabs (1000 at the most) dispite that they are a BIG minority compared to Punjabi and Uzbek fanatics. Not to mention Taliban itself.

Either you are drunk (would not surprise me that a communist like you are a alcoholic) or intoxicated but your hypocrisy is astonishing to say the least.

[AFG21]

I am actually really curious what peopel in this forum think to solve this problems. And what is that you do that makes you think that it would help our Pashtuns to get rid of this bad state?
Any sugestions???

[Soldat_Amir]

I am actually really curious what peopel in this forum think to solve this problems. And what is that you do that makes you think that it would help our Pashtuns to get rid of this bad state?
Any sugestions???

Plain and simple-------NATIONHOOD, PRIDE AND EDUCATION.

[AFG21]

^and how would you achive this?

[Soldat_Amir]

^and how would you achive this?

very simple.....Nationalism (with no VAA)

[Badlun]

This is not despondency or pessimism but depicting the reality, the ground reality otherwise some one may show from the development indicators that Pashtuns are better any where or have some enviable position in the comity of nations.

Not only we are not aware of our disease but are denying the very existence of any ailment. Ignorance of ignorance is the death of knowledge. Diagnosis of a disease is the first step towards its treatment. If we know what problems we have then we can ponder over its solutions but if you deny any problem then what steps you will take for the amelioration of the situation. The scenario is worse that even many Pashtuns are proud of all these menaces we have in our society.

What we achieved in the history. Nothing. Even the so called warrior Pashtuns were defeated by Alexander,Arabs and others. Mughals severely defeated Lodhis and Suris. British not only divided Afghanistan but now more than 60% Pashtuns dont live in Afghanistan.Durand line is now an internationally recognized border. Sovient Union occupied for more than 10 years and NATO is still the ruling power in Afghanistan.

Pashtuns are either polishing boys or guards in Pakistan or smugglers and terrorists. In Afghanistan either they are Taliban or shopkeepers and menial workers. Although the president is a Pashtun but the real power is somewhere else.

Pashto language disappeared from Pakistan( at least its writing and reading) and in Afghanistan still its not the language of government, commerce, media and education. There is not a single nobel prize holder Pashtun or any internationally recognized scholar or scientist. Pashtun women who are 35 million in number dont have any say in the social, cultural , economic or political life of Pashtuns. They are prisoners in the four walls of their jails.

We need to accept this situation and think over pragmatic strategies to pull out Pashtuns from all the quagmires where they are totally submerged.

[Badlun]

There are also many positive things about Pashtuns which if taken as assets can cure the liabilities mentioned above

As I said somewhere else we are all human beings but all human beings are not the same as all races, nations, people, ethnic groups, individuals have some distinctive characteristics thats why we are Pashtuns, Germans and Arabs etc. All with their culture, values, anthropology, genetics, color, stature , religions, countries, geographies, traditions etc etc.

This I am talking in positive sense not in the sense of racial discrimination or apartheid. We Pashtuns are proud to be Pashtuns but we are not proud to be Germans or Arabs. Why because we are distinct , we are different,,good or bad. We as a people or race or ethnic group have our own distinguishing features. The negative must be removed, the positive must be improved.

one can think over the positive aspects of Pashtuns being a nation, a race, ethnic group, a people with Pashto language and Pashtuns code of life or Pashtunwali

Following are some of the points of which I being a Pashtun am proud of

1. All Pashtuns belong to a big extended Pashtun family and in most of the cases when speak Pashto feel like cousens and members of one family. For me 70 millions Pashtuns whether they live in Pakistan or Afghanistan, or any country of the world are cousens.

One day I asked in a conefrence in a European country that what can be the size of a family , some one told 10, some 100 , I said no. its 70 million . approximately the 70 millions Pashtuns are like one family and this you feel when you meet a Pashtun in a foreign country. Just his or her langauge or being Pashtun is enough identity for us and we receive him or her as our family member

2. Pashtuns generally are not suffering from inferiority complex, they `proudly present themselves as Pashtuns

3. In about 95% cases Pashtuns speak and are proud of their langauge Pashto. Few exceptional cases are Pashtuns specially muhammadzai in Kabul or Northern Afgahnsiatn who prefer speak Dari or few Pashtun tribes as in Hazara, Mian wali, Attock Paksitan forgot Pashto because of the linguistic and cultrual invasion of the neighbouring people.

Here I am talking of speaking and listening. Pashtuns are very bad when we talk of writing and reading Pashto. They seldom write and read Pashto. Its an important negative aspect of Pashtuns that they dont read or write their language.

4. Almost all Pashtuns have maintained their blood line and geneology. Its almost a pure race. The Pashtuns are the world's largest (patriarchal) segmentary lineage ethnic group

5. Pashtuns are generally brave, confident, hard working people living with values, traditions, mores, and honour. Although bravery of Pashtuns is proverbial but this bravery must be practiced with intelligence, tact, and farsightedness otherwise the same bravery can become belligerence , stubbornness, contentiousness, hostility, militance, , pugnaciousness and truculence which dont remain any more a positive characteristic of a person, group or nation.

6. Pashtuns hospitality is proverbial. they are very friendly people But this may not become excessive and may not let ourselves to be used by others and the hospitality of Taliban may not reach to the extent that their guest Osama become their cause of destruction an dthe camel oust the owner of the camp.

[یاسمینه]

As a non-Pashtun I would add rich culture, poetry, prose, richness of dialects... To me it's endless list.

[Toramana]

1. All Pashtuns belong to a big extended Pashtun family and in most of the cases when speak Pashto feel like cousens and members of one family. For me 70 millions Pashtuns whether they live in Pakistan or Afghanistan, or any country of the world are cousens.

One day I asked in a conefrence in a European country that what can be the size of a family , some one told 10, some 100 , I said no. its 70 million . approximately the 70 millions Pashtuns are like one family and this you feel when you meet a Pashtun in a foreign country. Just his or her langauge or being Pashtun is enough identity for us and we receive him or her as our family member

2. Pashtuns generally are not suffering from inferiority complex, they `proudly present themselves as Pashtuns

3. In about 95% cases Pashtuns speak and are proud of their langauge Pashto. Few exceptional cases are Pashtuns specially muhammadzai in Kabul or Northern Afgahnsiatn who prefer speak Dari or few Pashtun tribes as in Hazara, Mian wali, Attock Paksitan forgot Pashto because of the linguistic and cultrual invasion of the neighbouring people.

Here I am talking of speaking and listening. Pashtuns are very bad when we talk of writing and reading Pashto. They seldom write and read Pashto. Its an important negative aspect of Pashtuns that they dont read or write their language.

4. Almost all Pashtuns have maintained their blood line and geneology. Its almost a pure race. The Pashtuns are the world's largest (patriarchal) segmentary lineage ethnic group

5. Pashtuns are generally brave, confident, hard working people living with values, traditions, mores, and honour. Although bravery of Pashtuns is proverbial but this bravery must be practiced with intelligence, tact, and farsightedness otherwise the same bravery can become belligerence , stubbornness, contentiousness, hostility, militance, , pugnaciousness and truculence which dont remain any more a positive characteristic of a person, group or nation.

6. Pashtuns hospitality is proverbial. they are very friendly people But this may not become excessive and may not let ourselves to be used by others and the hospitality of Taliban may not reach to the extent that their guest Osama become their cause of destruction an dthe camel oust the owner of the camp.

Thanks. It is probably the first time that you've spoken positively of Pashtuns. But I have a comment about something else i.e., isn't the 70 million figure for Pashtuns a bit excessive? I think it would sound more convincing/realistic if scaled down to 50 millions or somewhat.

Anyhow, I agree that Pashtuns are one of the world most hospitable people and prove to be priceless friends when you befriend them. I also agree that Pashtuns have usually stood for abstract things more than any other race i.e., honour, dignity, personal liberty, etc. Sorry if I sound to be exaggerating.

[Toramana]

As a non-Pashtun I would add rich culture, poetry, prose, richness of dialects... To me it's endless list.

Oh, I thought you're Pashtun---your name is Pashtun sounding...

[یاسمینه]

@Toramana
1. I'm sorry if my nickname misled you.
2. Population of Pashtuns - according to very recent data coming from a conversation with a person from Regional Studies Center of Afghanistan, total population of Pashtuns is estimated at 50 milion (people who are Pashtuns by origins) and 40 milion of them speak Pashto.

[Badlun]

The number of Pashtuns in the world cant be given accurately owing to the lack of exact data based on a recent census but the minimum number is 50 million while this site says 70 million
Crises Confronting Afghan Women ... - Alia Rawi Akbar - Google Books

This site even gives the figure of 75 million

Filling the policy vacuum on Pakistan, America and the Afghanistan endgame – The Express Tribune

[Badlun]

Thanks. It is probably the first time that you've spoken positively of Pashtuns.

I try to be realistic and being Pashtun myself I am always a well wisher of Pashtuns. Pashtuns no doubt is a great nation but has to improve upon a lot and I want reformation and a kind of renaissance for Pashtuns so they get a respectable positions in the comity of developed nations of the world.

[یاسمینه]

The number of Pashtuns in the world cant be given accurately owing to the lack of exact data based on a recent census but the minimum number is 50 million while this site says 70 million
Crises Confronting Afghan Women ... - Alia Rawi Akbar - Google Books

This site even gives the figure of 75 million

Filling the policy vacuum on Pakistan, America and the Afghanistan endgame – The Express Tribune

I quoted the President of Regional Studies Center of Afghanistan from Kabul. I wouldn't totally reject his data.

There are many sources giving different numbers but all of them base on estimations only.

About last census: it was in April 2011 when I read that data from the pilot census would be published soon. And then data was published as data coming from complete census...