Should we support Taliban - Part 1

[Badlun]

That is why I think all past forces have shown to lack of credibility and a change and reorganization is needed. What is the most difficult under these conditions.
Taliban are same well organized from somewhere, otherwise they would act differently i suppose. Perhaps the simple people who are used, are honest in their intentions, but for sure not in the upper part of Talibs. Same applied to the others.

Taliban are organized by the notion of religion and its abuse. Religious minded and especially extremists like Taliban and Tableeghis are well organized people in Afghansitan and Pakistan. First they have 5 times prayers on daily basis. Then they have congregations of Friday. They have other gatherings on regular basis.

They have the misguided emotion, sentiment, sensation, the concept of hereafter and cult approach. They follow their leaders blindly. Besides all this they have material benefits, respect in society, recognition and undue influence or nuisance value.

On the other hand secular section of society do not have such an organized or concrete approach. They are divided into many political or social groups. They do not have the same propaganda system and funding as Taliban have.

This is the problem with US and other developed countries. For their ideals they have to invest in the hearts and mind of people. Books and bread along with bullet will be a good combination. They should establish net works of educational and health institutions and encourage those who are against extremism and terrorism by facilitating them to have their print and electronic media and other propaganda organs.

[Tjanaparh]

Brother, i am sure not a knowing person on this aspect, but still in your view some questions remain unclear.

First and most important is How can US be taken seriously when they supported Talibs in their beginings and now oppose them and operate mostly only against Aghanistan, not Pakistan?
How can their values be taken serious if their values are simply sophisticated violence,while the Talibs violence is more simple?
I do not believe Taliban achieve anything without any outer support, what remains still unclear.
But leaving all concpiracy theories you should see that the most people who die for talibs are your simple fellow people blinded perhaps by hate, sorrow and ignorance in a way that is very cruel, because using often suicide instead of combat it becomes a genocide of those simple people. My friend from Afghanistan told me, how people wenton Talibs side because of the wish to defend their home and following promises that after their death somebody will take their families from misery.
I would ask if you not find it strange that an outsider invests in hearts and minds of your people, it is like buying your people at the end. Why don't you believe that your people have their own the capacity to change and make best of themselves. I have to say that i saw best qualities among Afghans, and it is not necessary to invest and remake your people according to a foreign modell, like west did it with native americans. In your culture are hidden treasures that became rare today, and i hope they won't disappearbut survive and will be your future basis for your country.

Please brother, you have the historical experience of world history to look if the countries involved in your own are really intrested in doing something good.
Only US helped at least three different armed movements in your country, that always brought death insomehow....
For me the answer to your own prosperity can lie only in your own hands, what is universal

[laevanay]

Brother, i am sure not a knowing person on this aspect, but still in your view some questions remain unclear.

First and most important is How can US be taken seriously when they supported Talibs in their beginings and now oppose them and operate mostly only against Aghanistan, not Pakistan?

Many men hold servants that they fire after misconduct, does that mean once they are removed they should still be paid?

How can their values be taken serious if their values are simply sophisticated violence,while the Talibs violence is more simple?
I do not believe Taliban achieve anything without any outer support, what remains still unclear.

I thought muslimeen are better than the rest and represent Islam "the Religion of Peace?" How can followers of the Religion of Piece be violent?

But leaving all concpiracy theories you should see that the most people who die for talibs are your simple fellow people blinded perhaps by hate, sorrow and ignorance in a way that is very cruel, because using often suicide instead of combat it becomes a genocide of those simple people.

You call them simple, I call them ignorant. Who is to blame for someones ignorance... have you seen a anti Talib Suicide bomber?

My friend from Afghanistan told me, how people wenton Talibs side because of the wish to defend their home and following promises that after their death somebody will take their families from misery.

And after the hundreds of suicide bombings, how many families have been taken care of? If a pakhtun believes that and is that stupid then he deserves to be blown to bits!

I would ask if you not find it strange that an outsider invests in hearts and minds of your people, it is like buying your people at the end. Why don't you believe that your people have their own the capacity to change and make best of themselves. I have to say that i saw best qualities among Afghans, and it is not necessary to invest and remake your people according to a foreign modell, like west did it with native americans. In your culture are hidden treasures that became rare today, and i hope they won't disappearbut survive and will be your future basis for your country.

Please brother, you have the historical experience of world history to look if the countries involved in your own are really intrested in doing something good.
Only US helped at least three different armed movements in your country, that always brought death insomehow....
For me the answer to your own prosperity can lie only in your own hands, what is universal

Remember it was the same US that sponsored and changed your society spoonfeeding the so called "Mujahiddin" for their own political gains....


When a guest goes to a hotel to spend the night what happens? The Guest pays money, they get a room with amenities. The Guest uses the bed, the toilet etc and the next morning the Guest leaves. The Guest does not clean the toilet, nor makes the bed, just packs up and leaves.......

[Saifullah]

Lots of stuff going on here........too much for me

[Gulalai]

oh man so much reading

[Saifullah]

You would think they are all part of the loya jirga

[Joey_Gladstonezai]

Many men hold servants that they fire after misconduct, does that mean once they are removed they should still be paid?

Servants? And you think that it's right of these foreign powers to hire sovereign people expecting they'll become their servants? I'm sorry but that really tells a lot about you, in case you find nothing wrong with that. Forgive me if I misjudged.

I thought muslimeen are better than the rest and represent Islam "the Religion of Peace?" How can followers of the Religion of Piece be violent?

Islam is a complete religion that mandates the best possible solution to all of mankind's burdens. I do not condone violence as I am against it. History has proven, though, that if a people do not resist physical oppression with physical force, they will be wiped out so when people resort to it, it may be thought of as a natural means of survival. Islam is completely against violence.

You call them simple, I call them ignorant. Who is to blame for someones ignorance... have you seen a anti Talib Suicide bomber?

You call them ignorant, but I think a better word would be desperate. What is to blame for that? I'll let you figure that out.

And after the hundreds of suicide bombings, how many families have been taken care of?

None. But you are forgetting that suicide bombings occur when people are highly desperate and when the odds are heavily against them. They are wrong, yes, since they result in the lives of innocent people being lost as well as the lives of young men who carry them out. The question should be, how can we prevent them? I think if one does not have bias in favor of any agenda, it would be clear that the most efficient way of preventing them is to not give them any reason or justification to do it. But when they see violence being carried out against them daily while we all tell them to stay non-violent, isn't it hypocrisy?

If a pakhtun believes that and is that stupid then he deserves to be blown to bits!

That statement just goes to show you have a very crude character and don't value human life. Every complaint of yours about violence and suicide bombing has an agenda other than a humanist one behind it. You think violence is acceptable for you but whine when others do it.

Remember it was the same US that sponsored and changed your society spoonfeeding the so called "Mujahiddin" for their own political gains....

Tjanaparh is Armenian for the record though this part of what you say is true.
]

[Tjanaparh]

Many men hold servants that they fire after misconduct, does that mean once they are removed they should still be paid?

Perhaps You didn't understand me or I do not understand your question , brother! What has the payment to do with that?Servants tend to have servant mentalityand servant complexes, so when servants get free from their masters they try to be masters their own over all.

I thought muslimeen are better than the rest and represent Islam "the Religion of Peace?" How can followers of the Religion of Piece be violent?

That question is not adressed to me, I am not Muslim, but I don't think that has to do with what I said brother.

You call them simple, I call them ignorant. Who is to blame for someones ignorance... have you seen a anti Talib Suicide bomber?

I'd call them ignorant too, perfectly right. To blame for someones ignorance? A good question, it has not only one answer, it has at least to - first , the person himself, second - the society. In that case society has a big portion of resonsabilities. There is no need for anti talib suicide bombers, because the way they make suicide bombing they make die already enough off your brothers, so what is the need to make it doubble, complete Pashtun genocide?

And after the hundreds of suicide bombings, how many families have been taken care of? If a pakhtun believes that and is that stupid then he deserves to be blown to bits!

You can answer that question yourself, you can call the person stupid and desparate, sure...
But you cannot say that those people deserve to die. US thinks so, bacause for them its like toys in their game, but for you these should be brothers, maybe ignorant, maybe desparate, but its your people to get these kind of zombified ideas in their heads to kill other of your people. The logical question should be how to open the eyes of both and to protect both.

Remember it was the same US that sponsored and changed your society spoonfeeding the so called "Mujahiddin" for their own political gains....

I am Armenian brother, perhaps You don't know. How did Mujaheddin change my society? do You mean the Soviet society?

When a guest goes to a hotel to spend the night what happens? The Guest pays money, they get a room with amenities. The Guest uses the bed, the toilet etc and the next morning the Guest leaves. The Guest does not clean the toilet, nor makes the bed, just packs up and leaves.......

When a guest comes to a hotel, he leave his room untiedied, but he normally leaves the hotel intact, und doesn't make intrigues so that cleaning personal wil rebell against kitchen personal. After all your homeland isn't a hotel, and a guest in your country is not a hotel guest.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Joey, I have to say Desperation cannot be a real reason or excuse for what happens. Neither would ignorance bring people directly to what happens. Yes, it is normal that people oppose any violence, specially in their homeland, but in that case people kill their own brohers and die themselves. Who profits are the enemy of Pashtuns, they can esily earase them with their own hand, and i am sure suicide bombing was introduced not occasionaly and is not the product of simple ignorance of the people who joined Taliban, neither is it their idea to combat the violence in there country. This strategy comes from outside, and the ignorance, desperation and problems of these people is the tool needed for their masters.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

cowards tell others to fight their battles because they are too cowardly to fight it themselves. Incompetence is when you cant answer the questions.

you mean like the Taliban getting Pakistani ISI military support, Uzbek and ulf Arab mercenaries, which by the way were there prior to "occupation". Thus the occupation excuse can't be invoked.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Dear Joey, I have to say Desperation cannot be a real reason or excuse for what happens. Neither would ignorance bring people directly to what happens. Yes, it is normal that people oppose any violence, specially in their homeland, but in that case people kill their own brohers and die themselves. Who profits are the enemy of Pashtuns, they can esily earase them with their own hand, and i am sure suicide bombing was introduced not occasionaly and is not the product of simple ignorance of the people who joined Taliban, neither is it their idea to combat the violence in there country. This strategy comes from outside, and the ignorance, desperation and problems of these people is the tool needed for their masters.

The ignorance excuse, is precisely that ...an excuse

[Tjanaparh]

Well, ignorance is an instrument, keeping people ignorant gives control over them. The question would be , who is behind that and what are their aims?