Why Pashtun nationalists...

[Firdousi]

...hate so much Iran?

It never ceases to amaze how much hatred Pashtun nationalist hold toward Iranians, Persian language and Persian history. I actually believe that even many non nationalist Pashtuns hate Persian culture. May I know why? I would seriously appreciate if you guys can shed some light on this.

I find it particularly hilarious basically because most of Iranians don't even know what a Pashtun is lol

[ذو الفقار]

Good question. I respect Iran, especially their great history, heritage and services rendered to the cause of Islam and synthesis of Islamic culture which we follow. Political differences with the Khomeinist regime of Iran and its concept of Wilayat ul Faqih is to be expected, even many Iranians don't like that regime and its policies. For example Iran's blind support of the Baathist regime in Syria which used chemical and biological agents against their own people including women and little children, while hypocritically condemning the condition of Palestinians in Gaza and the suppression of the popular uprisings in Bahrain 2011.

[Elite Pakhtun]

I only speak for myself, and nobody else.

From a Pakistan perspective, Iran is friendly, and quasi-pro-India. This is an issue, considering they're a Muslim neighbor. However, business is business, so I don't hold it against them. I just don't have to like them for it. Sometimes no matter what someone does, they might just be in conflict with you.

Also, very minor, but a something - seems like Iran has influence on Afghanistan, particularly the media stuff. Maybe even politics.

They also treat Afghans like dirt. Not that I care, since I'm not from Afghanistan, but as far as ethnic pride etc is concerned, that is a diss from them.

Also, if you've ever met Persian nationalists, they're usually rabidly anti-Islam, and as a result anti-Pakistan. They look down at others, and see Pashtuns having conquered any portion of them as a huge diss.

Basically our goals are simply not aligned.

It doesn't appear that what people that agree with me want will be helped by the Iranians.
@Samandri didn't you say the sikhs got cannons etc from the Iranians?

All that said, I don't mind Iran or Iranians. I'm not sure politically we agree per se, but that doesn't mean I dislike Iran or Iranians. In fact, if you go far back in time, my ancestry from one side comes from Iran itself. Objectively, they have a very rich, sophisticated culture. They're into the "finer" things, not the adrenaline rush type stuff.

[maneatinglizard]

I'm not really a Pashtun nationalist, so I can't speak for them, but I don't hate Persian culture or history. If anything, I respect the Persian contribution to Islam, and to the Islamic world (and the wider world in general). I also recognize that Pashtun culture is similar to, and to some degree influenced by, Persian culture, and it doesn't really bother me.

The relationship between Pashtuns and Persians is interesting. We don't like being ruled, and Persians were some of the innovators of empire, and since we're neighbors, we were bound to clash, and it's happened many times, and that's probably one of the causes of enmity. On the other hand, I feel like we have generally had some respect for Persians, which doesn't seem to be the case with our other large neighbor (India). I don't know if Pakistani Pashtuns feel the same way.

However, the Safavids changed Persian/Iranian culture and identity for the worse, and modern Persian identity seems different from how it was in the past. A lot of Iranians nowadays are wannabe-whites and self-haters just like Indians. And the ones who aren't tend to be so in love with themselves and their Persian identity that they come off as very obnoxious and haughty. It's hard to like either group really, and most Iranians (at least in the West) tend to be one or the other. Additionally, the modern state of Iran is hardline Shia, and as such its policies often clash with Pashtun sentiments, not to mention their mistreatment of Afghan refugees.

So I think there's a lot of reasons why Pashtuns would dislike Persians, but I think those same reasons largely apply to non-Pashtun Afghans too. And when you dislike a people, you often end up disliking what's associated with them.

By the way, I don't really see Tajiks as Persians, even though they speak the same language, and I don't see Persian culture in Iran and non-Pashtun/Tajik culture in Afghanistan as a single culture.

I find it particularly hilarious basically because most of Iranians don't even know what a Pashtun is lol

I'm not sure about this. As far as I know most Iranians know that a large number of people in Afghanistan speak Pashto, and know what Afghans are. They probably don't know the specifics of ethnicity in Afghanistan, but I believe they generally associate the Afghan nationality with Pashtuns (like how most people associate Pakistani nationality with Punjabis).

[salman47]

...hate so much Iran?

It never ceases to amaze how much hatred Pashtun nationalist hold toward Iranians, Persian language and Persian history. I actually believe that even many non nationalist Pashtuns hate Persian culture. May I know why? I would seriously appreciate if you guys can shed some light on this.

I find it particularly hilarious basically because most of Iranians don't even know what a Pashtun is lol

If you really think like that, then I would like to say is that the Iranis have more knowledge about Afghans(=Pashtun) than you do.

[Firdousi]

I'm not really a Pashtun nationalist, so I can't speak for them, but I don't hate Persian culture or history. If anything, I respect the Persian contribution to Islam, and to the Islamic world (and the wider world in general). I also recognize that Pashtun culture is similar to, and to some degree influenced by, Persian culture, and it doesn't really bother me.

The relationship between Pashtuns and Persians is interesting. We don't like being ruled, and Persians were some of the innovators of empire, and since we're neighbors, we were bound to clash, and it's happened many times, and that's probably one of the causes of enmity. On the other hand, I feel like we have generally had some respect for Persians, which doesn't seem to be the case with our other large neighbor (India). I don't know if Pakistani Pashtuns feel the same way.

However, the Safavids changed Persian/Iranian culture and identity for the worse, and modern Persian identity seems different from how it was in the past. A lot of Iranians nowadays are wannabe-whites and self-haters just like Indians. And the ones who aren't tend to be so in love with themselves and their Persian identity that they come off as very obnoxious and haughty. It's hard to like either group really, and most Iranians (at least in the West) tend to be one or the other. Additionally, the modern state of Iran is hardline Shia, and as such its policies often clash with Pashtun sentiments, not to mention their mistreatment of Afghan refugees.

So I think there's a lot of reasons why Pashtuns would dislike Persians, but I think those same reasons largely apply to non-Pashtun Afghans too. And when you dislike a people, you often end up disliking what's associated with them.

By the way, I don't really see Tajiks as Persians, even though they speak the same language, and I don't see Persian culture in Iran and non-Pashtun/Tajik culture in Afghanistan as a single culture.



I'm not sure about this. As far as I know most Iranians know that a large number of people in Afghanistan speak Pashto, and know what Afghans are. They probably don't know the specifics of ethnicity in Afghanistan, but I believe they generally associate the Afghan nationality with Pashtuns (like how most people associate Pakistani nationality with Punjabis).

This was a great reply. Thanks for sharing brother.

No Afghan Tajiks, Tajikistanis and Iranian Persians don't share the same culture. We are close but not the same. I mean a Tajik from Kapisa might share some cultural ties and language with a Persian from Iran but at the end of the day their cultures have more differences than similarities and most of Tajiks from northern Afghanistan don't identify with Iran. We Tajiks from Western Afghanistan feel closer to Iran for obvious reasons although most of us dislike Iran lol

The current state of confusion among the average Iranian can not be blamed on Safavids. I believe it emerged during the last century when their intellectuals and politicians failed to create a modern version of the Iranian culture. This is a common disease in almost all Islamic societies (Afghanistan included).

[Firdousi]

If you really think like that, then I would like to say is that the Iranis have more knowledge about Afghans(=Pashtun) than you do.

Iranians think all Afghans are Hazara Mongols. I have even met Iranians who were shocked to know that the main language in Afghanistan is Farsi lol

Iranians living in the GCC do know about "Pathans" but Iranians living in Iran or in the West know absolutely nothing.

[khushal]

Iranians think all Afghans are Hazara Mongols. I have even met Iranians who were shocked to know that the main language in Afghanistan is Farsi lol

Iranians living in the GCC do know about "Pathans" but Iranians living in Iran or in the West know absolutely nothing.

I live in America where there is a large community of Iranians and most are actually shocked that a significant population of Afghans don't know Farsi. I dont understand why they would be shocked to know that the main language is Farsi. Almost all migrants from Afghanistan that live in Iran are farsiwan.
Iranians thinking that all Afghans are Mongols is what I have ran into also which is understandable because the vast majority of migrants from Afghanistan are Hazaras.

In Pakistan, most Pakistani pashtuns think that the Tajiks that have migrated there are persianized Pashtuns.

[khushal]

...hate so much Iran?

It never ceases to amaze how much hatred Pashtun nationalist hold toward Iranians, Persian language and Persian history. I actually believe that even many non nationalist Pashtuns hate Persian culture. May I know why? I would seriously appreciate if you guys can shed some light on this.

I find it particularly hilarious basically because most of Iranians don't even know what a Pashtun is lol

Most Arabs and Iranians or anyone West or North of Afghanistan have never heard of "Pasthun." They only know "Afghan."

Afghans and Iranians have been historical rivals. Most Iranians I speak to don't like Afghans, especially the older generation. It's the same with Arabs and Iranians which is why Afghan and Arabs get along so well.

[salman47]

Iranians think all Afghans are Hazara Mongols. I have even met Iranians who were shocked to know that the main language in Afghanistan is Farsi lol

Iranians living in the GCC do know about "Pathans" but Iranians living in Iran or in the West know absolutely nothing.

I met a few...
One is a student, when he got to know I am Pashtun, became a big *******.
The other I met at Istanbul Airport(he was going from Rome to Tehran). This was a cool dude we talked for a while, at the end he asked if I was also going to Tehran(flights to Sharjah and Tehran were from the same gate). I said no I am Afghan. He was very cool about it and got kind of happy meeting me.
Third one would be my Teacher. He is also very nice. He was surprised when he heard me speaking Pashto with my friend(i think it was his first time).

Yea so good bad people everywhere!!

P.S. So i wanted to say that Iranians actually know who Pashtun/Afghan are.

[ذو الفقار]

It’s quite understandable why many ethnic minorities in Afghanistan prefer the Kabul govt. to the Taliban. The Taliban, despite being a religious movement, are too linked to Pashtun bigotry, and their history of discrimination and outright massacring of the Hazara has never been redressed. The Hazara have always been an extremely vulnerable group. These beautiful, innocent looking people should be cherished rather than treated like second class citizens. Taliban have to do more to assure the ethnic minorities, particularly Hazara, that they have their interests at heart and they have reformed their attitude and behavior. Taliban have to breach the ethnic lines and not be confined to Pashtuns only if they ever want to be successful. Otherwise there will always be permanent opposition to them and the central government in Kabul could never completely be defeated. Only if the entire Afghan population rise up against the foreign occupation and their puppet government could the Taliban ever attain success. Short of that they need to focus on integrating themselves into the new State and end the armed opposition to it. Perhaps they could be more successful as a purely political but non-violent force and represent the interests of both Islam-lovers and also those who are wary of creeping foreign influence and modernism, especially from India and the West. Along with Hekmatyar and Sayyaf, they could push for more cooperation and brotherly relations with Pakistan.

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]
I am not a Pashtun nationalist , but speaking from the perspective of one , I'd say that contemporary Pashtun nationalists probably see Afghan Persians as a hinderance to their monopoly of ruling Afghanistan. An increasing Tajik/Farsiwan population could also remove Pashtuns from their position of being the majority in Afghanistan.
These are possible reasons for hatred towards Persians in Afghanistan.
Can't really see why they would dislike Iranians , apart from the fact that they consider Iranians to be on the side of the Tajiks/Farsiwan.
There's the Shia factor too , but nationalists are usually secular so that likely does not apply here.

[Firdousi]

I live in America where there is a large community of Iranians and most are actually shocked that a significant population of Afghans don't know Farsi. I dont understand why they would be shocked to know that the main language is Farsi. Almost all migrants from Afghanistan that live in Iran are farsiwan.
Iranians thinking that all Afghans are Mongols is what I have ran into also which is understandable because the vast majority of migrants from Afghanistan are Hazaras.

In Pakistan, most Pakistani pashtuns think that the Tajiks that have migrated there are persianized Pashtuns.

I said some Iranians not all of them. Believe it or not, vast majority of Afghans do speak Farsi fluently. Bilingualism is widespread among Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Turkemans, Baluchs, etc.

I use to mingle more with Iranians than with Afghans. I recall this time, like 7 years ago, in Deira (Dubai) I was in there with my family and met this Iranian guy from Kerman. He heard us speaking Farsi so he thought we were Iranians too. When we told him "Ma Afghan astem" ("We are Afghans") the guy was so shocked! He was like "shoma shebi Iranian astend! Chera cheshma shoma badoomi nist?" ("You look like Iranians!! Why you don't have almond-shaped eyes?") haha. Poor fool. I actually felt sad for that MF.

The thing is every time I visit Iran I laugh a lot because most of Iranians seriously believe that all Afghans are Monghols lol. But many Iranians do also know a lot about Afghanistan. Southern and eastern Iranians are mainly Sunnis and they tend to feel closer to us Afghans than with their Shia brothers from northern Iran. My brother is married to an Iranian from Shiraz. They are Sunni "khodemoonis" and they know a lot about Afghanistan.

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]
I am not a Pashtun nationalist , but speaking from the perspective of one , I'd say that contemporary Pashtun nationalists probably see Afghan Persians as a hinderance to their monopoly of ruling Afghanistan. An increasing Tajik/Farsiwan population could also remove Pashtuns from their position of being the majority in Afghanistan.
These are possible reasons for hatred towards Persians in Afghanistan.
Can't really see why they would dislike Iranians , apart from the fact that they consider Iranians to be on the side of the Tajiks/Farsiwan.
There's the Shia factor too , but nationalists are usually secular so that likely does not apply here.

Yeah that makes sense. Tajiks and Pashtuns are struggling for supremacy in Afghanistan so that makes people be suspicious of each other. But I was talking about Iranian Persians. Nationalist Pashtuns feel a huge disdain for Iranians and I don't think is due to historical reasons.

[Firdousi]

It’s quite understandable why many ethnic minorities in Afghanistan prefer the Kabul govt. to the Taliban. The Taliban, despite being a religious movement, are too linked to Pashtun bigotry, and their history of discrimination and outright massacring of the Hazara has never been redressed. The Hazara have always been an extremely vulnerable group. These beautiful, innocent looking people should be cherished rather than treated like second class citizens. Taliban have to do more to assure the ethnic minorities, particularly Hazara, that they have their interests at heart and they have reformed their attitude and behavior. Taliban have to breach the ethnic lines and not be confined to Pashtuns only if they ever want to be successful. Otherwise there will always be permanent opposition to them and the central government in Kabul could never completely be defeated. Only if the entire Afghan population rise up against the foreign occupation and their puppet government could the Taliban ever attain success. Short of that they need to focus on integrating themselves into the new State and end the armed opposition to it. Perhaps they could be more successful as a purely political but non-violent force and represent the interests of both Islam-lovers and also those who are wary of creeping foreign influence and modernism, especially from India and the West. Along with Hekmatyar and Sayyaf, they could push for more cooperation and brotherly relations with Pakistan.

Hazaras are like USA´s ******s: annoying people AF always playing the victim card. This seems to be a common behavior among Shias who love to portray themselves always as victims.

Its a fact that Taliban will never be accepted by non-Pashtuns. Its an undeniable fact. They will always be a rural Pashtun force.