Experience while living in Afghanistan

[toughpashtun]

1- For all those friends who lived in Afghanistan prior to the Nato invasion of 2001,I would like you to hear about your experiences.
Particularly, about everyday life during Soviet,Civil War and Talib era.(emphasis on Civil War and Talib era).

Also , why and when did you and your family move out from Afghanistan(that is,if you are still not living there).

2- Another question I have is that, how did you , and the people around you ,feel when the Western forces invaded in 2001?Did you see them as liberators from Taliban rule , or as foreign invaders who had to be kicked out?
(This is interesting , because based on what I know , most Afghans viewed the Soviets as invaders to had to be fought against , which led to the Mujahideen resistance.But it seems it was not the case for the Nato invasion and that most Afghans actually supported the occupiers as opposed to the Talibs)

[DaZahroJaam.]

Role the pakol over your ears. Or stop wearing pakols for prayer. You are not a panjsheri.

[Firdousi]

1- For all those friends who lived in Afghanistan prior to the Nato invasion of 2001,I would like you to hear about your experiences.
Particularly, about everyday life during Soviet,Civil War and Talib era.(emphasis on Civil War and Talib era).

Also , why and when did you and your family move out from Afghanistan(that is,if you are still not living there).

2- Another question I have is that, how did you , and the people around you ,feel when the Western forces invaded in 2001?Did you see them as liberators from Taliban rule , or as foreign invaders who had to be kicked out?
(This is interesting , because based on what I know , most Afghans viewed the Soviets as invaders to had to be fought against , which led to the Mujahideen resistance.But it seems it was not the case for the Nato invasion and that most Afghans actually supported the occupiers as opposed to the Talibs)

1) I was born in Afghanistan and spent most of my childhood in there. The civil war was awful. Still remember the street combats and how the rockets were raining down. I was a kid but will never forget how scared we were. When Taliban took over we had some mixed feelings: happy because they brought an end to fightings. Unhappy because most of them were a bunch of uncivilized animals.

2) Happy. When Americans "invaded" Afghanistan most of us knew it was a turning point. We were eager to leave behind the Pakistani-sponsored barbarism. We wanted our country to become a civilized member in the world stage. USA was an opportunity for us. After few years optimism led to disappointment: our new government was corrupt. Rebuilding was a slow process. War restarted. And so on.

Still despite our current state of misery I must point out a lot of progress has been made. We have now roads, modern technology, some basic state infrastructures, we are better connected to the rest of the world, we are less dependent on Pakistan, millions of boys and girls are getting an education.

I have absolutely no respect for our current leaders and elders. They miserably failed to bring progress to our country. They failed to created a modern Afghan culture. But I am confident because I know new generations will change it. Afghans, despite being uneducated, have a huge respect toward education and progress. Unlike many of our neighbors the Afghan nation is by nature egalitarian and have a strong collective mentality. Sooner or later we will created a strong, stable and modern new identity, get rid of Westerntoxication and religious fanaticism. Its just a matter of time.

[toughpashtun]

Role the pakol over your ears. Or stop wearing pakols for prayer. You are not a panjsheri.

Hey, you meant to write this in another thread, where one member asked for advice regarding wearing the pakol for prayers.
Furthermore, I would appreciate it if you could contribute to this thread too, since you have lived in Afghanistan I believe.

[toughpashtun]

1) I was born in Afghanistan and spent most of my childhood in there. The civil war was awful. Still remember the street combats and how the rockets were raining down. I was a kid but will never forget how scared we were. When Taliban took over we had some mixed feelings: happy because they brought an end to fightings. Unhappy because most of them were a bunch of uncivilized animals.

2) Happy. When Americans "invaded" Afghanistan most of us knew it was a turning point. We were eager to leave behind the Pakistani-sponsored barbarism. We wanted our country to become a civilized member in the world stage. USA was an opportunity for us. After few years optimism led to disappointment: our new government was corrupt. Rebuilding was a slow process. War restarted. And so on.

Still despite our current state of misery I must point out a lot of progress has been made. We have now roads, modern technology, some basic state infrastructures, we are better connected to the rest of the world, we are less dependent on Pakistan, millions of boys and girls are getting an education.

I have absolutely no respect for our current leaders and elders. They miserably failed to bring progress to our country. They failed to created a modern Afghan culture. But I am confident because I know new generations will change it. Afghans, despite being uneducated, have a huge respect toward education and progress. Unlike many of our neighbors the Afghan nation is by nature egalitarian and have a strong collective mentality. Sooner or later we will created a strong, stable and modern new identity, get rid of Westerntoxication and religious fanaticism. Its just a matter of time.

1- If you do not mind, which city did you live during civil war and Talib rule?And what about schooling etc?

2-I read that you are currently living in Europe.What made you move there?Taliban?

3- One way to look at this is , that post 2001, more Afghans have gone back to Afghanistan(those who left due to Soviet,civil war or Talibs ) as opposed to leaving it.So that makes it clear that many countrymen prefer the foreign occupation due to an increase in opportunities and development.

4- Lastly , I must say that to be honest, I agree with what you said about the current generation of Afghans.I mean , they appear motivated and wanting to do something for their country.If peace prevails , there is not doubt that a developed Afghanistan is not far off.

Edit and addition: Just came to mind. My personal opinion is , and anyone can disagree, that the way forward for Afghanistan is peace talks with Talibs,and withdrawal of foreign forces.And the inclusion of representatives of Taliban into the government. The Talibs have softened down their stance on many issues,and are no longer averse to girls education etc. They also are careful not to indulge too much in people's private lives and allow television etc in areas they control.I guess it it because they realized their unpopularity previously,and now are careful to not alienate the general population.

[Firdousi]

1- If you do not mind, which city did you live during civil war and Talib rule?And what about schooling etc?

2-I read that you are currently living in Europe.What made you move there?Taliban?

3- One way to look at this is , that post 2001, more Afghans have gone back to Afghanistan(those who left due to Soviet,civil war or Talibs ) as opposed to leaving it.So that makes it clear that many countrymen prefer the foreign occupation due to an increase in opportunities and development.

4- Lastly , I must say that to be honest, I agree with what you said about the current generation of Afghans.I mean , they appear motivated and wanting to do something for their country.If peace prevails , there is not doubt that a developed Afghanistan is not far off.

1) I am from Herat but was raised in Kabul. Went to school for many years and once the civl war started we quitted.
2) Many reasons. First off most of my family from mother side were typical "Tajik/Persian" intellectuals: poets, university "ustaads", miniature painters, traditional singers, and so on. From my father side most of my family are businessmen. Afghanistan became a Pakistani province so we didn't want to live in there anymore. I must point out that since we are Tajiks most of my family had sympathy toward Massoud and Jamiat Islami. Many others were fervent Parchami (Parchamis were mainly educated urban Persianspeaker "socialists" while Khalqis were hardcore commies from eastern provinces). So living under Taliban rule was unacceptable for us.
3) Many educated Afghans went back to Afghanistna after 2001. I know plenty of Afghans who are involved in huge cultural projects. I have been working with several "andjomans" who support progress for Afghanistan. Unfortunately warlords have hijacked the country.
4)I am not an Afghan patriot but believe when I say Afghans despite all their flaws are hard workers. We seriously appreciate and value education. In my family almost 90% of my cousins (male and female alike) have higher education.

I once read on wall in Kabul a poem that struck me: "Afghanistan is a flower that will only bloom in peace". We only need peace. Afghanistan has enough potential to become one of the most educated, tolerant and advanced countries in the world. We just need some stability. We have a key geoestrategic location, we have vast natural resources, we are surrounded by emerging regional and world powers.. its a matter of time.

[toughpashtun]

1) I am from Herat but was raised in Kabul. Went to school for many years and once the civl war started we quitted.
2) Many reasons. First off most of my family from mother side were typical "Tajik/Persian" intellectuals: poets, university "ustaads", miniature painters, traditional singers, and so on. From my father side most of my family are businessmen. Afghanistan became a Pakistani province so we didn't want to live in there anymore. I must point out that since we are Tajiks most of my family had sympathy toward Massoud and Jamiat Islami. Many others were fervent Parchami (Parchamis were mainly educated urban Persianspeaker "socialists" while Khalqis were hardcore commies from eastern provinces). So living under Taliban rule was unacceptable for us.
3) Many educated Afghans went back to Afghanistna after 2001. I know plenty of Afghans who are involved in huge cultural projects. I have been working with several "andjomans" who support progress for Afghanistan. Unfortunately warlords have hijacked the country.
4)I am not an Afghan patriot but believe when I say Afghans despite all their flaws are hard workers. We seriously appreciate and value education. In my family almost 90% of my cousins (male and female alike) have higher education.

I once read on wall in Kabul a poem that struck me: "Afghanistan is a flower that will only bloom in peace". We only need peace. Afghanistan has enough potential to become one of the most educated, tolerant and advanced countries in the world. We just need some stability. We have a key geoestrategic location, we have vast natural resources, we are surrounded by emerging regional and world powers.. its a matter of time.

It seems that most Afghans are eager to do away with ethnic tensions and focus more on being 'Afghans' rather than Pashtun,Tajik,Hazara,Uzbek.
A similar trend is being observed in the general population in Pakistan.

[Firdousi]

It seems that most Afghans are eager to do away with ethnic tensions and focus more on being 'Afghans' rather than Pashtun,Tajik,Hazara,Uzbek.
A similar trend is being observed in the general population in Pakistan.

Dunno about Pakistan. Never been to your country but I must say in the GCC most of Pakistanis seems to get along with their own kin. Dont get wrong I know most of Pakistanis love their country but every time I go to Dubai I don't see Pathans mingling with Punjabis.

In Afghanistan there is no ethnic tension. Thats more propaganda than anything else. Yeah our "elders" like to stir up ethnic animosity but its more a political agenda than true ethnic hatred. All this Tajik nationalism pushing for Khorasan is more an online phenomenon than anything else.

Tajiks and Pashtuns use to intermarry each other. Plenty of relatives of mine are married to Pashtuns from southern provinces such as Kandahar or Helmand, honestly speaking we have almost no relation with Pashtuns from eastern provinces. We are too different. And I have also realized many of them hold a huge disdain toward Tajiks while many Tajiks consider Pashtuns from those provinces as barbaric people. But Heratis have a huge love for Kandaharis.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Dunno about Pakistan. Never been to your country but I must say in the GCC most of Pakistanis seems to get along with their own kin. Dont get wrong I know most of Pakistanis love their country but every time I go to Dubai I don't see Pathans mingling with Punjabis.

In Afghanistan there is no ethnic tension. Thats more propaganda than anything else. Yeah our "elders" like to stir up ethnic animosity but its more a political agenda than true ethnic hatred. All this Tajik nationalism pushing for Khorasan is more an online phenomenon than anything else.

Tajiks and Pashtuns use to intermarry each other. Plenty of relatives of mine are married to Pashtuns from southern provinces such as Kandahar or Helmand, honestly speaking we have almost no relation with Pashtuns from eastern provinces. We are too different. And I have also realized many of them hold a huge disdain toward Tajiks while many Tajiks consider Pashtuns from those provinces as barbaric people. But Heratis have a huge love for Kandaharis.

I feel it's more the young internet culture of bedroom keyboard warriors who visit sites like "AnthroGENES.com" or some rubbish and people who were somehow affiliated with Socialist Inspired secular ethnonationalism during the 60's and 70's that ramp up that ethnic nonsense.

[Shapur]

1- For all those friends who lived in Afghanistan prior to the Nato invasion of 2001,I would like you to hear about your experiences.
Particularly, about everyday life during Soviet,Civil War and Talib era.(emphasis on Civil War and Talib era).

Also , why and when did you and your family move out from Afghanistan(that is,if you are still not living there).

2- Another question I have is that, how did you , and the people around you ,feel when the Western forces invaded in 2001?Did you see them as liberators from Taliban rule , or as foreign invaders who had to be kicked out?
(This is interesting , because based on what I know , most Afghans viewed the Soviets as invaders to had to be fought against , which led to the Mujahideen resistance.But it seems it was not the case for the Nato invasion and that most Afghans actually supported the occupiers as opposed to the Talibs)

1: I was a small kid in Kabul during soviet times and from what I remember, it was peaceful, education was free and life was good but for some my relatives in other places there was war and deaths, my cousin died fighting Soviets, he was part of Hezb e Islami.
When mujahideen finally came to Kabul and the Soviet backed government collapsed, the people welcomed them because they thought the mujahideen would bring peace, rule of law and establish a just Islamic society but overtime people realised some of these mujahadeen were only warlords and fighting for their own interests and greed. They failed to establish a unified central government and the so called mujahideen formed their own little kingdoms running extortion rackets, stoping people on the roads asking for money etc.

We left because my uncles were already living abroad and they convinced us to leave when mujahideen took over. There street to street fights between differenf mujahideen factions and nobody felt safe. Those who had money left for abroad and some returned and some not.


2: Most Afghans had no choice but to accept the NATO occupation. Although Taliban were a total failure, we didn't feel the way the US/NATO came in with their guns and show of force would bring peace and stability. As they say "Pukhtoon pa meena dozakh ta ze kho pe zor janat ta na" and so it has proven that Taliban are a stubborn bunch and feel betrayed by Pakistan and other Afghans and will not give up on what they see as their right to impose their version of Islam. The failures of the current government has helped Taliban's case but we know that Taliban are no better themselves and are as useless as the current government.
Ideal scenario would be the 8 thousand foreign troops leaving, the corrupt warlords and politicians brought to justice and reconcilliation with the Taliban so they can join others and serve the county.

[toughpashtun]

Dunno about Pakistan. Never been to your country but I must say in the GCC most of Pakistanis seems to get along with their own kin. Dont get wrong I know most of Pakistanis love their country but every time I go to Dubai I don't see Pathans mingling with Punjabis.

In Afghanistan there is no ethnic tension. Thats more propaganda than anything else. Yeah our "elders" like to stir up ethnic animosity but its more a political agenda than true ethnic hatred. All this Tajik nationalism pushing for Khorasan is more an online phenomenon than anything else.

Tajiks and Pashtuns use to intermarry each other. Plenty of relatives of mine are married to Pashtuns from southern provinces such as Kandahar or Helmand, honestly speaking we have almost no relation with Pashtuns from eastern provinces. We are too different. And I have also realized many of them hold a huge disdain toward Tajiks while many Tajiks consider Pashtuns from those provinces as barbaric people. But Heratis have a huge love for Kandaharis.

Hanging out or socializing is one thing, and inter ethnic harmony is another.We used to have a lot of 'I am Pashtun' and 'He is Punjabi' back in the day, not so much anymore.Yes , in some things it still exists for example mostly Pashtuns are prefer not to marry outside of their ethnicity, especially they don't readily give their daughters to non-Pashtuns,barring exceptions.But overall, their is inter ethnic harmony.'Pakistaniat' has crept into the blood and veins of the Pashtuns.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Good question. Very interested in this as well.

[toughpashtun]

1: I was a small kid in Kabul during soviet times and from what I remember, it was peaceful, education was free and life was good but for some my relatives in other places there was war and deaths, my cousin died fighting Soviets, he was part of Hezb e Islami.
When mujahideen finally came to Kabul and the Soviet backed government collapsed, the people welcomed them because they thought the mujahideen would bring peace, rule of law and establish a just Islamic society but overtime people realised some of these mujahadeen were only warlords and fighting for their own interests and greed. They failed to establish a unified central government and the so called mujahideen formed their own little kingdoms running extortion rackets, stoping people on the roads asking for money etc.

We left because my uncles were already living abroad and they convinced us to leave when mujahideen took over. There street to street fights between differenf mujahideen factions and nobody felt safe. Those who had money left for abroad and some returned and some not.


2: Most Afghans had no choice but to accept the NATO occupation. Although Taliban were a total failure, we didn't feel the way the US/NATO came in with their guns and show of force would bring peace and stability. As they say "Pukhtoon pa meena dozakh ta ze kho pe zor janat ta na" and so it has proven that Taliban are a stubborn bunch and feel betrayed by Pakistan and other Afghans and will not give up on what they see as their right to impose their version of Islam. The failures of the current government has helped Taliban's case but we know that Taliban are no better themselves and are as useless as the current government.
Ideal scenario would be the 8 thousand foreign troops leaving, the corrupt warlords and politicians brought to justice and reconcilliation with the Taliban so they can join others and serve the county.

1- Life in Kabul was peaceful and good during Soviet times,as you said because the government was based there and there was no fighting as such.Outside,it was
a mess.
2- The majority of Afghans did see the 'invaders' as liberators though,right?

[Peshawar_222]

Hanging out or socializing is one thing, and inter ethnic harmony is another.We used to have a lot of 'I am Pashtun' and 'He is Punjabi' back in the day, not so much anymore.Yes , in some things it still exists for example mostly Pashtuns are prefer not to marry outside of their ethnicity, especially they don't readily give their daughters to non-Pashtuns,barring exceptions.But overall, their is inter ethnic harmony.'Pakistaniat' has crept into the blood and veins of the Pashtuns.

If you happen to visit Colleges , Universities and Schools in Pakistan you will find that a lot of Pashtuns have Punjabi's as close friends and vice versa . Just see how National days are Celebrated in KP .

[Firdousi]

Hanging out or socializing is one thing, and inter ethnic harmony is another.We used to have a lot of 'I am Pashtun' and 'He is Punjabi' back in the day, not so much anymore.Yes , in some things it still exists for example mostly Pashtuns are prefer not to marry outside of their ethnicity, especially they don't readily give their daughters to non-Pashtuns,barring exceptions.But overall, their is inter ethnic harmony.'Pakistaniat' has crept into the blood and veins of the Pashtuns.

Good points, buddy. But as I pointed out before I have never been to your country so I don't know Pakistan´s social found reality.

You see in Afghanistan we don't have that problem when it comes to marrying people outside their ethnciity. I know plenty of Pashtun-Tajik inter-marriages. Actually most of Herati Pashtuns I have come across were married to Herati Tajiks. Never seen any Pashtun-Hazara marriage. I know also some Kabuli Tajik (shias)-Hazara couples