"Loy Afghanistan"

[Shapur]

[B][FONT="Arial"] [COLOR="Navy"] What parts of our culture are we unable to practice fully due to living amongst non Pashtuns?? I have personally not seen anyone interfere with a Pashtun's way of justified living by non Pashtuns of Afghanistan. I would really like an example if there is such a thing.

Its not that we can't practice it fully because of force but because of certain historical factors. Farsi has been the lingua franca of our region for a thousand years and we know for a fact that if a language is not being used actively and financially supported at state level, it will eventually die out as proven by so many other languages in the past.
In Pakistan where the majority of Pashtuns live, the way the state system works has made the need for learning Pashto redundant. You only really need Urdu/English. Most educated Pashtuns in Pakistan can not read/write in Pashto. This is a fact and it is only getting worse because even Urdu is getting sidelined by English. What chance has Pashto got then?
Have you noticed when ever, there is a pashtun and non pashtun, the pashtun always has to speak their language because most Pashtuns have to be bilingual. The non pashtuns never have to learn Pashto because historically there has been no need to. As they say "Bala zheba zda kawal loy kamal dai, khpala zhaba herawal be kamali da". Nothing wrong with learning a second language but I would prefer if Pashtuns learnt English which is an international language rather than Farsi or Urdu which doesn't really benifit us at all. Loy Afghanistan will ensure that the Pashto language/culture has official state backing and will be used as a formal language in all speheres to insure its survival.

[DaZahroJaam.]

That is a barrier that hinders language progress for those living in Pakistan, not Afghanistan. Pashto is one of the two official languages in Afghanistan and compulsory in our universities as well as schools so isolating ourselves from the Afghanistan that we know of today for the purpose of making sure that our language lasts, is not necessarily a matter of great concern.
You said a benefit of loy Afghanistan for Pashtuns would be freedom for Pashtuns to practice their culture without interference from outsiders and progress related to language. I don't see anyone preventing Pashtuns from practicing their culture in Afghanistan nor speaking or acquiring education in Pashto so basically, the idea of loy Afghanistan has no great advantages for Pashtuns of Afghanistan but some, for the small group of Pashtuns in Pakistan who are interested in their Afghan roots. (Because let's face it: the majority of them are not).

If there is one thing that afghans are known for, it's their vulnerability when it comes to falling victim in the hands of those who use their sense of hospitability and lack of patience against them. We don't need to ruin our relationship with afghans of other ethnicities for the sake of those who constantly question themselves on what they will gain from becoming part of a broken nation in comparison to one with nuclear weapons. Instead of starting something superficial and then leaving it halfway in a mess, we should each focus on what we have and work on making it better.

[Porus]

Can't speak for Afghanistan but in Pakistan, Pashto is just a provincial language. There's Pashto TV, and even Pashto music is played in Pakistan. But it's never really made much of an impact on the music scene.

I seriously believe the problem with language preservation is Urdu. Urdu is a silly language. It has nothing to do with Jinnah, Pakistan or even Iqbal. Iqbal was a Persian poet, not an Urdu poet. Remove Urdu, give other languages official status and they will flourish.

Urdu is also a secondary language, it hasn't died. If anything it's still growing. So if we give priority to our own native languages there's no question that Pashto, Seraiki or Balochi will survive.

[Kakar-Wardak]

Can't speak for Afghanistan but in Pakistan, Pashto is just a provincial language. There's Pashto TV, and even Pashto music is played in Pakistan. But it's never really made much of an impact on the music scene.

I seriously believe the problem with language preservation is Urdu. Urdu is a silly language. It has nothing to do with Jinnah, Pakistan or even Iqbal. Iqbal was a Persian poet, not an Urdu poet. Remove Urdu, give other languages official status and they will flourish.

Urdu is also a secondary language, it hasn't died. If anything it's still growing. So if we give priority to our own native languages there's no question that Pashto, Seraiki or Balochi will survive.

Most pashtuns are illiterate, Pakistani pashtuns I guess less than 5% of them can write Pashto.

Afghan pashtuns however those that go to school can read and write Pashto, Dari and many even Urdu.

[Elite Pakhtun]

I hear from some people that Afghanistan has very heavy farsi/Iranian influence. Is this statement true?

[Dmsn]

I hear from some people that Afghanistan has very heavy farsi/Iranian influence. Is this statement true?

Depends on what you mean. Persian influence is very ancient (before modern state borders were created)...but even then the influence was both ways...in modern times not so much. The Shia Sunni devide has created sort of border, which was probably reason why Farsi speakers remained in Afghanistan rather than merge with Iran when the countries formed...culturally Farsi speakers of Afghanistan and Iran are kinda distinct, but they are more close than distant.

[Porus]

I hear from some people that Afghanistan has very heavy farsi/Iranian influence. Is this statement true?

Persian is the main language there so Afghan Pashto has Farsi influences. They'll use words like 'Lotfan' 'Tashakor' in common usage, whereas Pakistani Pashtuns will use Urdu words like 'Shukriya' or 'bhi' instead of 'hum' (also).

[Porus]

Most pashtuns are illiterate, Pakistani pashtuns I guess less than 5% of them can write Pashto.

Afghan pashtuns however those that go to school can read and write Pashto, Dari and many even Urdu.

Yeah, it's a shame. I'm always impressed when I see Afghans abroad who've learned Hindi through watching films. I'm an avid watcher of Iranian films and my Persian is very mediocre.

[marwat]

Can't speak for Afghanistan but in Pakistan, Pashto is just a provincial language. There's Pashto TV, and even Pashto music is played in Pakistan. But it's never really made much of an impact on the music scene.

I seriously believe the problem with language preservation is Urdu. Urdu is a silly language. It has nothing to do with Jinnah, Pakistan or even Iqbal. Iqbal was a Persian poet, not an Urdu poet. Remove Urdu, give other languages official status and they will flourish.

Urdu is also a secondary language, it hasn't died. If anything it's still growing. So if we give priority to our own native languages there's no question that Pashto, Seraiki or Balochi will survive.

i believe almost all the languages who made into this modern twenty first century are going to survive. they made it, pashto is clearly widely written and spoken in Afghanistan. in pakistan majority pashtun are still proud of their languages, they love pashto music and with social media the love for the language is taking more pace. pashto language is also now present in google translation service ,and facebook.

[Friends of Baloch]

Depends on what you mean. Persian influence is very ancient (before modern state borders were created)...but even then the influence was both ways...in modern times not so much. The Shia Sunni devide has created sort of border, which was probably reason why Farsi speakers remained in Afghanistan rather than merge with Iran when the countries formed...culturally Farsi speakers of Afghanistan and Iran are kinda distinct, but they are more close than distant.

It has nothing to do with Shi'a / Sunni divide. The boundary between Afghanistan and Iran was set by a treaty between the British and the Iranians which forced Iran to relinquish it's claim on Herat. Iranians withdrew from Herat at the conclusion of the Iran-Britain war in 1857 and it was ceded to Afghanistan. The British then withdrew their army to back to India.

Also Persian speakers in Afghanistan are not all the same. There are a few different regional, ethnic and cultural groups that are Persian speaker in Afghanistan.

[Kabulistan]

Its not advantageous for Afghanistan to give Up on former areas and peoples belongning to Afghanistan...

Accepting Durand Line is impossible...Situation in Afghanistan Will change eventually...the country will stabilize, and progress step by step, and expansion both in territory and population might become useful. For this a Loy Afghanistan would be ideal.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Depends on what you mean. Persian influence is very ancient (before modern state borders were created)...but even then the influence was both ways...in modern times not so much. The Shia Sunni devide has created sort of border, which was probably reason why Farsi speakers remained in Afghanistan rather than merge with Iran when the countries formed...culturally Farsi speakers of Afghanistan and Iran are kinda distinct, but they are more close than distant.

Interesting. What about the accusations that much of the media, and even language, is being influenced directly? Is that a myth on the internet (pf lol)?

Persian is the main language there so Afghan Pashto has Farsi influences. They'll use words like 'Lotfan' 'Tashakor' in common usage, whereas Pakistani Pashtuns will use Urdu words like 'Shukriya' or 'bhi' instead of 'hum' (also).

That's fine. But what i understand is that people say there's direct Persian influence on the culture ie media. Not that it's a bad thing per se, but may have an impact on which language "wins".

I've never heard "bhi" over "hum". I've heard "darwazah" instead of "warr".

[Porus]

That's fine. But what i understand is that people say there's direct Persian influence on the culture ie media. Not that it's a bad thing per se, but may have an impact on which language "wins".

I've never heard "bhi" over "hum". I've heard "darwazah" instead of "warr".

If Persian is the lingua franca amongst Afghan nationals then Persian culture will also affect the way the majority of Afghans behave around a mixed-ethnic mehfil. Essentially the difference that I understand between Afghan Pashto and Pakistani Pashto is that on a whole, the standard language in Afghanistan is more Dari influenced, whereas standard Pashto in Pakistan is influenced by Urdu or English. For example, 'soorat-e haal' is something only Pakistanis use. It doesn't make sense to use it in Farsi, they use the word 'waziyat', which means something different altogether in Urdu.

Pashto will be to Pashtuns as Punjabi is to Punjabis in Pakistan. It's something you'll use to identify with people of the same group, but not of any importance to identify with Tajik, Hazara, Aimaq or other ethnics.

[Peacelove]

Its not advantageous for Afghanistan to give Up on former areas and peoples belongning to Afghanistan...

Accepting Durand Line is impossible...Situation in Afghanistan Will change eventually...the country will stabilize, and progress step by step, and expansion both in territory and population might become useful. For this a Loy Afghanistan would be ideal.

My brother, this is your Dream and there is no restriction on dreams..Whatever the situation in afghanistan we will never merge with you..The line has been drawn permanently..
You accept it or not Pakistan will enforce it and our future lies with our brothers in Paksitan not with Kabulis..We will never accept kabul hegemony again.

Though i love to pashtuns of afghanistan.But our center of gravity will always be ISLAMABAD and not KABUL

[Dmsn]

My brother, this is your Dream and there is no restriction on dreams..Whatever the situation in afghanistan we will never merge with you..The line has been drawn permanently..
You accept it or not Pakistan will enforce it and our future lies with our brothers in Paksitan not with Kabulis..We will never accept kabul hegemony again.

Though i love to pashtuns of afghanistan.But our center of gravity will always be ISLAMABAD and not KABUL

...never say never... times changes, right now Pakistan might have the bigger carrot to attract, and afghanistan unstable but times change...When Afghanistan can offer Paki Pashtuns and Baluch bigger carrot, of course they Will join...IT wont matter if Pakistan enforce IT or not.

Russsia took back Crimea from Ukraine...never say never.