pashtuns officers of pak army killing waziris/pashtuns for the interests of punjab

[tripledouble]

This is a non evidence based statement

Here are the facts from recent Pew Data:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/08/27/...d-in-pakistan/

From that same report: Here is the supporting pictorial showing just how lopsided and brainwashed the public is by the Pakistani Military's nearly 24 hour propaganda popularizing their atrocities against their own people.

Notice how lopsided public military support is relative to nearly all other institutions.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/08/27/...7-pakistan-09/

That's public support but the Leftist dominated media/press hates the army, watch Geo or any channel except ary and they usually critique the army at all times, pick any Pakistani newspaper whether jang or dawn or tribune and they constantly slam the army; public opinion doesn't mean much when the army lets the leftist dominated press criticize it; I've rarely if ever heard any western channel or magazine criticize American/NATO policies or warcrimes etc the Indians don't do it either neither do the Afghans or even the Japanese or the Turks.

Most political parties also dislike the army.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

That's public support but the Leftist dominated media/press hates the army, watch Geo or any channel except ary and they usually critique the army at all times, pick any Pakistani newspaper whether jang or dawn or tribune and they constantly slam the army; public opinion doesn't mean much when the army lets the leftist dominated press criticize it; I've rarely if ever heard any western channel or magazine criticize American/NATO policies or warcrimes etc the Indians don't do it either neither do the Afghans or even the Japanese or the Turks.

Most political parties also dislike the army.

I agree with you to an extent that there is a permitted an undercurrent of anti army/ISI groupings to exist whether in the form of political discontent or in the form of various media personalities. It is permitted up till it actually threatens the Army's institutionalized dominance.

However, when it really matters, for instance, in the case of Zarb-e-Azb, the media personalities get in line and there is near unanimous support for Army military action.

In the same vein it is hard to find harsh criticism of Army "stabilizing" action in the supposedly leftist media for the thorny Baloch insurgency issue.

In addition, when one peruses the "leftist" media discussions about failings of the operation or IDP related qualms, the brunt of the criticism is cited as poor governmental planning rather than the army's poor planning.

The general excuse of "well the public wanted ZarbAzb" can be offered up but even this is primarily because the media there, especially the leftist media, conveniently leaves out the history lessons of who they are fighting and has minimal to no discussion regarding the hypocrisy of calling people heroes in the 1980s and then suddenly shifting the paradigm when it threatens Pakistan's own internal dynamic.

There is a now infamous video where a Pakistani squadron leader recognizes that there was some residual view that the Pashtun tribals were the time honored holy warriors and that even the Army "lads" had been raised on the legendary setbacks faced by the British and the Russians thanks to the FATA people. The Army officer proceeds to try and motivate his men by yelling: "You are the HOLY warriors! Not them, do not fear them!" One thinks that the major "doth protest too much... "

Therefore I would say that the leftist media failed in that it generally provides a narrative that absolves its own supportive faction of any of the trials and tribulations of the prior eras and attempts to simplify the narrative of "The Army is not doing enough to destroy our ideological foes."

That is hardly "criticizing " the Army. Rather it is handing it carte blanche all the support it needs to kill, hide, disappear, murder, maim and what not its own people.

[Smarty]

wrong,
over 80% pashtuns in pak army are from laki,kohat,karak,bannu and tribal areas.
You yourself from laki got training in kakol acadmy.
mr lakiwal

Source for your claim that 80% pashtuns in pak army are from lakki, bannu , tribal areas?
There are hardly any pashtuns from most of the tribal areas of FATA. Tribals are recruited in FC. Marwats, bhittanis, bannuchis neither recruited in British Indian army nor they have much presence in Pak army. The largest presence of pakhtuns in pak army, is of yousafzais and other tribes of peshawer valley. Your sherpao also served in Pak army and the ISI chief in musharaf times was from mardan. Though gadoons are not selected in army for a reason, they have small physique, weak bodies and least martial tendencies.

[gadoonwal]

Source for your claim that 80% pashtuns in pak army are from lakki, bannu , tribal areas?
There are hardly any pashtuns from most of the tribal areas of FATA. Tribals are recruited in FC. Marwats, bhittanis, bannuchis neither recruited in British Indian army nor they have much presence in Pak army. The largest presence of pakhtuns in pak army, is of yousafzais and other tribes of peshawer valley. Your sherpao also served in Pak army and the ISI chief in musharaf times was from mardan. Though gadoons are not selected in army for a reason, they have small physique, weak bodies and least martial tendencies.

what are you doing here ?
you said leaving the forum?
have some sharam kamasla.
look it yoursefl is not your family serving punjabi army?
gadoons are tallest pashtuns but they do not like to be part of your lungmar army.
On the other side jatts of laki are ,,tak toor,,,punjabyans

[Yousufzai]

tripledouble, there are no leftist papers in Pakistan. Most English newspapers in the country (Dawn, Express Tribune, etc.) have a liberal editorial slant, rather than a leftist one. That is why they support Pakistani military operations in the tribal areas; liberals generally cheer on state violence if it's "for the greater good."

There is a small left online magazine in Pakistan called Tanqeed, though. They've done absolutely amazing reporting on the operations. They released a series of interviews with Waziri refugees and journalists called "Voices from North Waziristan," which I think everyone should watch. They also did a media study, where they found out that most reporting on the operations (in both Pakistani and foreign papers) relied heavily on ISPR statements, which basically means we're being spoon fed whatever the Pakistani army wants us to think about these operations.

This idea that the Pakistani military ought to take care of this problem is just insane. These are the same guys who played a role in creating this exact same problem, by pursuing a policy of "strategic depth" for decades. If the government were serious about stopping terror, they should have started by arresting Hafiz Saeed.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

It is a fact that Southern KPK(Karak,Bannu,Lakki etc) and FATA has least %age of pashtuns in Army as compared to those from the From the region around peshawar and even from Swat/dir.

I know many recruit from Bannu in army including some of my classmates and i know a mangal tribe pashtun from surrani served upto colonel rank but they are not upto the rank as are from the region peshawar around.I also know a SSG from Lower Dir.


Though they should be proud of being member of a professional army

[DSM0305]

Actually it is good for Pashtuns if they become part of the army, but only if they become officers or a higher rank.

The problem with Pashtuns isn't the fact that they join the army, but rather the fact that they become foot soldiers(a servant/a disposable trash)

All the low ranking unites; frontier corps, foot soldiers etc. are all Pashtuns.
While the high ranking military consists of all other ethnicities but Pashtuns. Basically Pashtuns are doing nothing but obey commands and be used for the dirty work.

[tripledouble]

Actually it is good for Pashtuns if they become part of the army, but only if they become officers or a higher rank.

The problem with Pashtuns isn't the fact that they join the army, but rather the fact that they become foot soldiers(a servant/a disposable trash)

All the low ranking unites; frontier corps, foot soldiers etc. are all Pashtuns.
While the high ranking military consists of all other ethnicities but Pashtuns. Basically Pashtuns are doing nothing but obey commands and be used for the dirty work.

General Waheed Kakar, General Ayub Khan Tareen were Pashtun and they were army chiefs too, the later was even President.

Then there's the current Lt.General Tariq Khan from Tank and Major-General Naseerullah Khan Babar, Lt.General Gul Hasan Khan, and Lt.General Asad Durrani who was in fact the ISI chief in the 90s.

Then there's Major Farooq Ahmed Khan and Imran Khan's uncle Lt.General Wajid Ali Burki.

There are many Pashtun officers in proportion to their population and it will increase; in order to become an officer and not a foot soldier, you must have a high school diploma and minimum B grade -then the army confers a bachelors degree after 3 years in their academy.

[DSM0305]

General Waheed Kakar, General Ayub Khan Tareen were Pashtun and they were army chiefs too, the later was even President.

Then there's the current Lt.General Tariq Khan from Tank and Major-General Naseerullah Khan Babar, Lt.General Gul Hasan Khan, and Lt.General Asad Durrani who was in fact the ISI chief in the 90s.

Then there's Major Farooq Ahmed Khan and Imran Khan's uncle Lt.General Wajid Ali Burki.

First of all, pin pointing a few Pashtun generals out of thousands, doesn't exactly help your case. Secondly, most of those generals you mention can be questioned whether they can be considered Pashtuns. So if anything, you just proved that there is lack of high ranking Pashtuns

There are many Pashtun officers in proportion to their population and it will increase; in order to become an officer and not a foot soldier, you must have a high school diploma and minimum B grade -then the army confers a bachelors degree after 3 years in their academy.

Show a source that claims, that the percentage of Pashtun officers is more compared to the population of Pashtuns. As usually, you spit something that you just made up.

And yeah, why in the world do I need to know what is required to become an officer in Pakistan... use your brain next time to sort out what is relevant and what is not...

[tripledouble]

First of all, pin pointing a few Pashtun generals out of thousands, doesn't exactly help your case.

There aren't a "thousand generals" retard, not even a hundred, you're beyond stupid.

Out of 15 army chiefs in Pakistan 4 were Pashtun. 4/15 you can do the math.

Secondly, most of those generals you mention can be questioned whether they can be considered Pashtuns.

Which ones?Ayub Khan?He's from Abbotabad, out of the rest perhaps only Asad Durrani and Wajid Burki could be questioned for being Pashtun enough, but the rest like Waheed Kakar,Gul Naseer,Naseerullah etc are def Pashtun 100% and so is Tariq Khan from Tank.

Perhaps you don't like Ayub khan cause he speaks Hindko....

So if anything, you just proved that there is lack of high ranking Pashtuns

There isn't, Pashto-speakers make up 15% of the population(25% including non-Pashto speaking Pashtuns) and Pashto-speaking Pashtuns make up 15% of the armed forces -other Pashtun origin people from say Punjab and Kashmir are classed as "Punjabi" tho so they aren't included in the official figures as Pashtun.

Show a source that claims, that the percentage of Pashtun officers is more compared to the population of Pashtuns. As usually, you spit something that you just made up.

I never said "more", I said in proportion to their population - *facepalm*, you struggle with the English language.

And yeah, why in the world do I need to know what is required to become an officer in Pakistan... use your brain next time to sort out what is relevant and what is not...

You're such a little girl; my point was that since more Pashtuns are going to school and college than before and since more of them are now meeting the criteria to become an officer, we're going to see an increase in Pashtun army officers -you need to use your brain, or actually replace it so you can make out the relevance of information -you should also invest in some contraceptive pills because those period cramps are turning you into a whiny bytch.

[Yousufzai]

The Pakistani army has caused much more misery than the Taliban. This isn't even rhetoric, it's just an objective statement. The army carried out a mass slaughter and used rape as a weapon of war in Bangladesh, brutalized Baloch society for decades, overthrew civilian governments four times, and pursued a policy of "strategic depth" that destroyed Afghanistan, the tribal areas, and Pakhtunkhua. We should not be counting on this criminal institution to take care of militancy in our areas.

[tripledouble]

The Pakistani army has caused much more misery than the Taliban. This isn't even rhetoric, it's just an objective statement

Fine, then go live under your Taliban buddies.

The army carried out a mass slaughter and used rape as a weapon of war in Bangladesh,

Do you realize that there were Bengali militias too that mass murdered non-Bengalis whom they called "Biharis" as a racial slur -there were atrocities on both sides but obviously the Pakistani army was stronger and caused more damage before the Indians got involved and as usual history is written by the victors and in this case the Bengali nationalists wrote the history - in fact there's a Bengali author who claims that the number of rapes and war babies was exaggerated and even American reserchers put the death toll at around 200,000-300,000 which they claimed was done by both sides not just the Pakistani army -that is indeed an objective evaluation.

brutalized Baloch society for decades,

and the Baloch Sardars who enslave their own people, persecute,rape,murder and stop them from getting an education are better?The BLA/BRA even massacred Punjabi and Sindhi teachers in their schools, ofcourse both sides are guilty but the media only pins the blame on the Pakistan army and not the rebels - BTW It's actually the frontier corps that are involved in counter-insurgency operations in B'stan which is a paramilitary force.

overthrew civilian governments four times

As if civilian rulers are good people who didn't persecute the people themselves? there have been coups in Thailand,Turkey,Sri Lanka,South Korea and Argentina and throughout the arab world and in Pakistan the coups have always been bloodless -overthrowing a failed government isn't a bad idea especially during the Cold war day but now coups won't happen, they just don't have the same impact anymore.

, and pursued a policy of "strategic depth" that destroyed Afghanistan, the tribal areas, and Pakhtunkhua.

Do you know what strategic depth was all about?Soon after independence the Afghan government voted against Pakistan's creation in the general assembly and Afghan King Daud Khan started supporting Pashtun separatists in Pakistan, he armed and financed them and enrolled some tribesmen at propaganda colleges in Afghanistan -then in the 1961 they violated the border and made incursion in Bajaur and were fended off by the Pakistan army subsequently Pakistan put sanctions on Afghanistan for violating the border which crippled the economy of Afghanistan -the Afghan monarchy even supported Baloch separatists which obviously no country would allow a secessionist movement, so Pakistan's policy of "Strategic depth" wasn't about controlling Afghanistan or making it into a province -the main and only aim was to get a government in Kabul to recognize the international border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Pakistan's first Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan was assasinated by an Afghan agent, Saad Akbar Babrak.

We should not be counting on this criminal institution to take care of militancy in our areas.

What military isn't a "criminal" institution according to your definition?The military is obviously a large state sponsored militia which is trained to kill.

The Swat operation in 2009 was largely a success by the Pakistan army; go ask any Swatis, would they rather live under Taliban rule like in 2009 and before or in a post-Taliban Swat?Since you're a Yusufzai, I assume you're from Swat?

You can read about what some Swatis think of the operation here

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/20941/the-serendipitous-serenity-of-swat-valley/

From Swat

[jankhan]

Fine, then go live under your Taliban buddies.


Do you realize that there were Bengali militias too that mass murdered non-Bengalis whom they called "Biharis" as a racial slur -there were atrocities on both sides but obviously the Pakistani army was stronger and caused more damage before the Indians got involved and as usual history is written by the victors and in this case the Bengali nationalists wrote the history - in fact there's a Bengali author who claims that the number of rapes and war babies was exaggerated and even American reserchers put the death toll at around 200,000-300,000 which they claimed was done by both sides not just the Pakistani army -that is indeed an objective evaluation.

and the Baloch Sardars who enslave their own people, persecute,rape,murder and stop them from getting an education are better?The BLA/BRA even massacred Punjabi and Sindhi teachers in their schools, ofcourse both sides are guilty but the media only pins the blame on the Pakistan army and not the rebels - BTW It's actually the frontier corps that are involved in counter-insurgency operations in B'stan which is a paramilitary force.

As if civilian rulers are good people who didn't persecute the people themselves? there have been coups in Thailand,Turkey,Sri Lanka,South Korea and Argentina and throughout the arab world and in Pakistan the coups have always been bloodless -overthrowing a failed government isn't a bad idea especially during the Cold war day but now coups won't happen, they just don't have the same impact anymore.

Do you know what strategic depth was all about?Soon after independence the Afghan government voted against Pakistan's creation in the general assembly and Afghan King Daud Khan started supporting Pashtun separatists in Pakistan, he armed and financed them and enrolled some tribesmen at propaganda colleges in Afghanistan -then in the 1961 they violated the border and made incursion in Bajaur and were fended off by the Pakistan army subsequently Pakistan put sanctions on Afghanistan for violating the border which crippled the economy of Afghanistan -the Afghan monarchy even supported Baloch separatists which obviously no country would allow a secessionist movement, so Pakistan's policy of "Strategic depth" wasn't about controlling Afghanistan or making it into a province -the main and only aim was to get a government in Kabul to recognize the international border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

What military isn't a "criminal" institution according to your definition?The military is obviously a large state sponsored militia which is trained to kill.

The Swat operation in 2009 was largely a success by the Pakistan army; go ask any Swatis, would they rather live under Taliban rule like in 2009 and before or in a post-Taliban Swat?Since you're a Yusufzai, I assume you're from Swat?

You can read about what some Swatis think of the operation here

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/20941/the-serendipitous-serenity-of-swat-valley/

I am yusafzai and I belong to swat and I have seen whatever happened there, because I was there at the time of operations.
That whole drama was directed by the isi and played it through their men. Then they cleansed the area. But you can't call it a success because five years have passed but the army is still there. They still have check posts and everything. Punjabis don't know it but still people are killed in the day light by unknown men.
So you can't call it a success. and remember Taliban and army are two sides of the same coin.
This is called munafiqat.

[DSM0305]

There aren't a "thousand generals" retard, not even a hundred, you're beyond stupid.

Out of 15 army chiefs in Pakistan 4 were Pashtun. 4/15 you can do the math.

It is a rhetoric you idiot. Even a retard would have comprehended that. Calling you retard will be an insult to retards.

Which ones?Ayub Khan?He's from Abbotabad, out of the rest perhaps only Asad Durrani and Wajid Burki could be questioned for being Pashtun enough, but the rest like Waheed Kakar,Gul Naseer,Naseerullah etc are def Pashtun 100% and so is Tariq Khan from Tank.

Perhaps you don't like Ayub khan cause he speaks Hindko....

I am not going to go through every single of them and explain why they couldn't be considered a Pashtun. You may have that time on your hand, since you neither go school nor have a job. Other contributing people have school to attend and a job to take care of.

There isn't, Pashto-speakers make up 15% of the population(25% including non-Pashto speaking Pashtuns) and Pashto-speaking Pashtuns make up 15% of the armed forces -other Pashtun origin people from say Punjab and Kashmir are classed as "Punjabi" tho so they aren't included in the official figures as Pashtun.

How in the hell is that relevant. Once again I will repeat: Sort out relevant information

I never said "more", I said in proportion to their population - *facepalm*, you struggle with the English language.

Why are you talking out of it. Whether you said in ''proportion'' or ''more'' is irelevant to the statement and question I asked. I repeat, since you obviously have a mental disorder that makes it impossible for you to comprehend a simple English sentence: Where is your source

You're such a little girl; my point was that since more Pashtuns are going to school and college than before and since more of them are now meeting the criteria to become an officer, we're going to see an increase in Pashtun army officers -you need to use your brain, or actually replace it so you can make out the relevance of information -you should also invest in some contraceptive pills because those period cramps are turning you into a whiny bytch.

Are you always that stupid or is today a special occasion?
It is not my fault, that your mental-disorder prevent you from stating your justification of a statement of yours.

There is more than enough Pashtuns that have the necessary requirement to fill those officer posts even today. So increase in educational sector wont effect the recruitment.

I am your father, show some respect. It must be caused by the high blood pressure. Take this advice:
Slit your wrists; it will lower your blood pressure.

[DSM0305]

There aren't a "thousand generals" retard, not even a hundred, you're beyond stupid.

Out of 15 army chiefs in Pakistan 4 were Pashtun. 4/15 you can do the math.

It is a rhetoric you idiot. Even a retard would have comprehended that. Calling you retard will be an insult to retards.

Which ones?Ayub Khan?He's from Abbotabad, out of the rest perhaps only Asad Durrani and Wajid Burki could be questioned for being Pashtun enough, but the rest like Waheed Kakar,Gul Naseer,Naseerullah etc are def Pashtun 100% and so is Tariq Khan from Tank.

Perhaps you don't like Ayub khan cause he speaks Hindko....

I am not going to go through every single of them and explain why they couldn't be considered a Pashtun. You may have that time on your hand, since you neither go school nor have a job. Other contributing people have school to attend and a job to take care of.

There isn't, Pashto-speakers make up 15% of the population(25% including non-Pashto speaking Pashtuns) and Pashto-speaking Pashtuns make up 15% of the armed forces -other Pashtun origin people from say Punjab and Kashmir are classed as "Punjabi" tho so they aren't included in the official figures as Pashtun.

How in the hell is that relevant. Once again I will repeat: Sort out relevant information

I never said "more", I said in proportion to their population - *facepalm*, you struggle with the English language.

Why are you talking yourself out of it. Whether you said in ''proportion'' or ''more'' is irelevant to the statement and question I asked. I repeat, since you obviously have a mental disorder that makes it impossible for you to comprehend a simple English sentence: Where is your source

You're such a little girl; my point was that since more Pashtuns are going to school and college than before and since more of them are now meeting the criteria to become an officer, we're going to see an increase in Pashtun army officers -you need to use your brain, or actually replace it so you can make out the relevance of information -you should also invest in some contraceptive pills because those period cramps are turning you into a whiny bytch.

Are you always that stupid or is today a special occasion?
It is not my fault, that your mental-disorder prevent you from stating your justification of a statement of yours.

There is more than enough Pashtuns that have the necessary requirement to fill those officer posts even today. So increase in educational sector wont effect the recruitment.

I am your father, show some respect. It must be caused by the high blood pressure. Take this advice:
Slit your wrists; it will lower your blood pressure.