English man talking in Pashto

[Admin Khan]

English Man Talk & Sings Pashto Proud Of You Man - YouTube


[MENTION=5800]DaZahroJaam.[/MENTION]

[DaZahroJaam.]

i don't care the least bit about non afghans speaking pashto but i am pretty amused by how well this man has picked that accent and how he pronounces the words. all of it between a year or two.

[afghan]

English Man Talk & Sings Pashto Proud Of You Man - YouTube


[MENTION=5800]DaZahroJaam.[/MENTION]

great but censorship is required.. lol

[Toramana]

Why should one feel happy about that, Admin? One should know what are his motives behind learning Pashto. Mostly, they learn it for information gathering and access to the region about which they have a policy.

[یاسمینه]

Why should one feel happy about that, Admin? One should know what are his motives behind learning Pashto. Mostly, they learn it for information gathering and access to the region about which they have a policy.

Super theory )

[Toramana]

Super theory )

I have personally observed that many Westerners learn foreign languages where they have some practical interest, e.g., information gathering/spying, understanding the society or group that it considers antagonistic, develop relations with elements within a society/country that it wants to recruit to undermine that society/country or to influence its politics, etc.

I don't think a Westerner (esp US, UK) at this particular time of history will learn Pashto for benign motives.

[Toramana]

Look at this person. His name is Michael Semple. He was EU representative in 2003 to 2009 in Pakistan and spoke fluent Persian and Urdu (knew some Pashto as well). He would frequently visit Peshawar to meet political figures and gather political intelligence information.

Very cunning and crafty, he would talk of his Irish background and Ireland's struggle with England in order to strike a cordial card with Pashtun nationalists. Although, I am not a political activist , I had the chance to meet him on a few occasions in political gatherings.

On two occasions I noticed what was he up-to. In a EU seminar on FATA(Federally Administered Tribal Area) , in a discussion group which he was monitoring, most of group participants asked for FATA reform but 2-3 old guards insisted the present system should be retained and that reform should be very slow/gradual. After the group discussion, I was shocked to hear him talking to the old guards in a corner telling them they were right about FATA instead. I realized at that point West has no interest in stability, peace, etc. in FATA and considered the retention of the old British colonial system necessary for West's interests in Central and South Asia though apparently they talk about human rights etc.

Later somebody told me he had a separate channel open to Islamists and religious figures and will frequently meet them. Later he was expelled from Afghanistan for his secret connections with Taleban without the knowledge of Karazi and Afghan govt.

"The government of Afghanistan had received reports that the two individuals were involved in activities that were not consistent with their original jobs and they were engaged in unauthorised activities," he told a news conference.

"As a result the Afghan government expelled the two from Afghanistan and this sends a message that the Afghan government is watching everyone and any unauthorised activity, no matter it comes from wherever, will be stopped."

"Unauthorised activity" hints at what Afghan secret service agents are saying privately.

They point the finger squarely at Michael Semple for running an extensive network of Taleban contacts: "For arrogantly behaving like a Great Game era political officer", they say.

One intelligence officer asked me: "What is the EU deputy head of mission acting like a field commander and who is he working for?"

Francesc Vendrell is the EU's Special Representative in Kabul and I asked him what Michael Semple was doing?

"Quite honestly I am not sure. I had authorised Michael to go to Helmand, I knew he was vaguely going to do some work on reconciliation with the Taleban, but beyond that I had absolutely no idea what he was going to do."

But as his deputy, should he have known what Michael was doing?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7171205.stm

[یاسمینه]

I have personally observed that many Westerners learn foreign languages where they have some practical interest, e.g., information gathering/spying, understanding the society or group that it considers antagonistic, develop relations with elements within a society/country that it wants to recruit to undermine that society/country or to influence its politics, etc.

I don't think a Westerner (esp US, UK) at this particular time of history will learn Pashto for benign motives.

I agree with you, that there is always interest behind the idea of learning Pashto. But I don't, if it comes to the nature of these interests.
Knowledge of a foreign language is a skill like any other. We usually learn new things for a purpose.
We have different experience. I've met many foreigners speaking Pashto or Dari for other reasons. I also deal with Pashto for completely different reasons.
So I wouldn't generalize saying that majority of those who learn(ed) Pashto did it because of this or that.

[Badlun]

Why should one feel happy about that, Admin? One should know what are his motives behind learning Pashto. Mostly, they learn it for information gathering and access to the region about which they have a policy.

Toramana
I do appreciate your thoughts and ideas especially on secularism and development. However I feel that you may have some grudges with Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali as you always discourage foreigners and others who have interest in Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali. May be it is because of you being a non Pashtun yourself as you are paracha and not ethnically Pashtun or may be some other reason.

Do you know that who rediscovered Pashto and Pashtunwali. Mainly Britishers, Germans, Russians and orientalists. This was British governor in Peshawar who was translating English speech of Jinnah in Pashto. These were all foreigners who wrote first grammar and dictionaries of Pashto. A lot of research work has been done by foreigners on Pashto and Pashtuns.

One ready example is Yasmenah , Bengal Tiger , Tjan and Hallo of this forum who have immense interest in Pashtun related matters. Thus every foreigner is not a spy. Let others to take interest in our language and people. Pashto is not Dari or Urdu which already have a market. We have to create market for our language. Spies should be controlled by other means, not by doubting their interest in Pashto.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Look at this person. His name is Michael Semple. He was EU representative in 2003 to 2009 in Pakistan and spoke fluent Persian and Urdu (knew some Pashto as well). He would frequently visit Peshawar to meet political figures and gather political intelligence information.

Very cunning and crafty, he would talk of his Irish background and Ireland's struggle with England in order to strike a cordial card with Pashtun nationalists. Although, I am not a political activist , I had the chance to meet him on a few occasions in political gatherings.

On two occasions I noticed what was he up-to. In a EU seminar on FATA(Federally Administered Tribal Area) , in a discussion group which he was monitoring, most of group participants asked for FATA reform but 2-3 old guards insisted the present system should be retained and that reform should be very slow/gradual. After the group discussion, I was shocked to hear him talking to the old guards in a corner telling them they were right about FATA instead. I realized at that point West has no interest in stability, peace, etc. in FATA and considered the retention of the old British colonial system necessary for West's interests in Central and South Asia though apparently they talk about human rights etc.

Later somebody told me he had a separate channel open to Islamists and religious figures and will frequently meet them. Later he was expelled from Afghanistan for his secret connections with Taleban without the knowledge of Karazi and Afghan govt.

"The government of Afghanistan had received reports that the two individuals were involved in activities that were not consistent with their original jobs and they were engaged in unauthorised activities," he told a news conference.

"As a result the Afghan government expelled the two from Afghanistan and this sends a message that the Afghan government is watching everyone and any unauthorised activity, no matter it comes from wherever, will be stopped."

"Unauthorised activity" hints at what Afghan secret service agents are saying privately.

They point the finger squarely at Michael Semple for running an extensive network of Taleban contacts: "For arrogantly behaving like a Great Game era political officer", they say.

One intelligence officer asked me: "What is the EU deputy head of mission acting like a field commander and who is he working for?"

Francesc Vendrell is the EU's Special Representative in Kabul and I asked him what Michael Semple was doing?

"Quite honestly I am not sure. I had authorised Michael to go to Helmand, I knew he was vaguely going to do some work on reconciliation with the Taleban, but beyond that I had absolutely no idea what he was going to do."

But as his deputy, should he have known what Michael was doing?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7171205.stm

Hmmm...interesting.


Thanks for this.

People of the east or "Orient" (as some westerners would say in the past) are generally quite hospitable and welcoming to outsiders. They feel they have a duty, a responsibility to make this outsider feel welcome and comfortable and of course we all know Pashtunwali stress on "melmastia". So locals would definitely feel guilty about not being warm to foreigners which include one or two who might be spies.

People should realize that spies do not look like James Bond and say things like "shaken not stirred".



James Bond, British spy.

In fact they come in the guise of the character you mentioned above and also as "journalists", "humanitarian workers", "archaeologists". When I was in Syria a Muslim brother told me that the British Council (and some of its teachers) were essentially a front for spying and then he described someone including all their details, sex, age, height, build, background and said "why would they be in the middle of nowhere (which Damascus did feel like at times)?"

He made perfect sense considering the person he was talking about and their "distinct" attributes.

Here is Semple with a Pakol on his head:



The guy was clearly a spy.

Also even Christian missionaries are sometimes spies e.g. and the conversion to Christianity and thus subsequent cultural (and then political) re-alignment to the white west it brings about has a lot of geo-political benefits e.g. [MENTION=3580]asad71[/MENTION] can tell you about the CIA-backed American Christian missionaries in the north-east of India.

I am reluctant to talk about such things as many people infatuated with the "free" and "fair" western media denounce anything that contradicts the official western media narrative as a "conspiracy theory", but thanks for sharing your personal experience with what was undoubtedly an American spy.

I am not saying everyone who learns Pashto has a sinister agenda, but unless someone has a direct personal contact/interest (e.g. relationship/holiday) with a language which is not a major world language e.g. Spanish, Arabic, French etc there is sometimes a question mark.

Having said that however:http://www.khyberwatch.com/forums/sh...peaking-Pashto




:D

[HalloIsBack]

Toramana
I do appreciate your thoughts and ideas especially on secularism and development. However I feel that you may have some grudges with Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali as you always discourage foreigners and others who have interest in Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali. May be it is because of you being a non Pashtun yourself as you are paracha and not ethnically Pashtun or may be some other reason.

Do you know that who rediscovered Pashto and Pashtunwali. Mainly Britishers, Germans, Russians and orientalists. This was British governor in Peshawar who was translating English speech of Jinnah in Pashto. These were all foreigners who wrote first grammar and dictionaries of Pashto. A lot of research work has been done by foreigners on Pashto and Pashtuns.

right but they did it not just for fun or to help the pashtun people
they did it always by order of government

One ready example is Yasmenah , Bengal Tiger , Tjan and Hallo of this forum who have immense interest in Pashtun related matters. Thus every foreigner is not a spy.
right and thanks


Let others to take interest in our language and people. Pashto is not Dari or Urdu which already have a market. We have to create market for our language. Spies should be controlled by other means, not by doubting their interest in Pashto.

.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Badlun is on my ignore but I will address his points since Hallo quoted him.

1. Tjanaparh has more of a natural interest stemming from history, linguistics and other things. He is not too concerned about the politics of the Pashtun region, not to say he has no interest but not as much as others.

2. Hallo is studying in university and is seen (no offence) by many as having an interest in possibly meeting someone (not that I think so) but that is the general perception.

3. To be quite honest out of the 3, it is Bengal Tiger (me) who I would (if I wasn't me) find the most questionable as he talks about political matters. However Toramana is a smart guy and well-connected. 2 years ago when I was last in this forum we had some fights/arguments and he was suspicious on what I was doing here and my agenda and used to say things like "I'm not sure what you are trying to do, maybe rouse the Pashtun youth". Anyway I don't blame him for saying that and he was perfectly entitled to.

However I remember Toramana also talking about BarakzaiAbdali and mentioning that he had asked his extensive list of contacts in Pakistan about who he was. The owner of Khyberwatch (Zahid Lala) who I'm sure Toramana must have met knows who I am.

However I am not in Pakhtunkhwa/Afghanistan, do not speak to Pashtuns in real life about anything to do with Pashtun affairs, do not go to meetings, do not have any official position. I merely post comments on the internet from the comfort of my chair at home, that's all.

A few weeks ago I went to buy some headphones and went to a shop which I don't usually go to and it happened to be Pashtuns/Afghans. I didn't say "salamoona...sanga ye? Teek yhaam"..and then "deera manana". I just bought my headphones and said "Thanks brother" and left.

If someone asked me to stay away from this forum for another 2 years, I would. It's not a problem at all.

I would definitely have a question mark though over westerners (especially in Pakhtunkhwa/Afghankhwa) learning Pashto, especially if it is whilst doing some sort of politics/international relations course.

They might not all be spies but we should not generalize the other way and say none of them are spies.

P.S. If Toramana or other people I trust on this forum want to ask me any questions about who I am and why I post here I am happy to answer it in PMs.

[Badlun]

[MENTION=5349]Hallo[/MENTION]

The government was also a foreign government. Many did have and do have personal interest in Pashtun affairs in a selfless and sincere way. We must welcome and appreciate all these efforts.

We have learnt English or other languages , so others will doubt us that we all are spies!

[یاسمینه]

Those who spy and are really dangerous, don't need to learn Pashto, they afford to pay for local terps.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear friends, I think in this way spies are unavoidable. I mean Pashto is not Lom language, there is always a way for a spy in the one or other way to infiltrate, there are more important meassures to take in that sense. Sometimes today spying is so cunning that actually a spy like Toramana described isn't needed anymore.

What people of our places often lack is the ability to be immune to sweet words, specially when it concerns your pain as Pashtun, Armenian or so on...
That makes some people embrace everybody who glorifies your victories or condemns your enemies. While this is mostly not a friend who does so as he uses your weakness to befriend you