Why are Khorasani nationalists claiming that Ahmad Zahir is a Khorasani legend?

[DSM0305]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqn4Izdnnpo

[DSM0305]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcK0Njtcwl8

[Badlun]

I know he has few Pashto songs but it is like pa wrho ke malga . He is well known for his Dari/Persian songs not Pashto. This is a fact that he like Frahad Darya did not give attention to Pashto.

[DSM0305]

I know he has few Pashto songs but it is like pa wrho ke malga . He is well known for his Dari/Persian songs not Pashto. This is a fact that he like Frahad Darya did not give attention to Pashto.

I to be honest don't blame them. Pashtuns in Pakistan listen to Urdu and Pashtuns in Afghanistan was listing to Dari, which gave them no choice but to sing in the common language. Basically Pashtuns in both countries didn't have a demand for Pashto songs, which forced the artist to sing in language which had high demands.

Now that demand for Pashto songs have increased, so have songs in Pashto. Nowadays in Afghanistan you can find non-Pashtuns singing in Pashto. So we should be blaming the people for not carrying for Pashto at that time.

[Herat]

If it means anything, I apologize on the behalf of these generally very imbecilic youtube "Khorasani nationalists" who seem do nothing except spite but with all due respect, I think these sort of arguments over which historical dead guy belonged to which ethnicity is pointless and misses the real issues/point. A genuine issue has been broached in this thread that does need to be addressed: the fact that the non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan, as a whole, simply aren't interested in Pashtun culture and language, and that is simply natural -all peoples as a rule maintain their own cultures/languages and pursue their own ethnic/group interests to that end, thats just human nature. On the other side, Pashtuns like Gadoonwal are perfectly reasonable and justified in wanting to reject Tajik influence over Pashtun language, culture and interests (and Im willing to bet that he is more representative of the greater bulk of Pashtuns in Afghanistan than Persianized Pashtuns like Ahmad Zahir). This is why significantly heterogeneous, multi-ethnic states are always a recipe for ethnic conflict.

Im a "Khorasani nationalist" if that means supporting the partition of Afghanistan on ethnic lines (with the creation of "Khorasan" and Pashtunistan in its place) and I couldn't care less which dead guy was what, the issue is really about the self-determination of all the peoples of Afghanistan - Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns. I don't understand why some Pashtuns prefer this failure of a state, most likely doomed to perpetual ethnic strife, to a free and independent Pashtunistan where Pashtuns can advance their own language, culture and interests as they see fit, free from the corrosive Tajik influence.

[DSM0305]

If it means anything, I apologize on the behalf of these generally very imbecilic youtube "Khorasani nationalists" who seem do nothing except spite but with all due respect, I think these sort of arguments over which historical dead guy belonged to which ethnicity is pointless and misses the real issues/point. A genuine issue has been broached in this thread that does need to be addressed: the fact that the non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan, as a whole, simply aren't interested in Pashtun culture and language, and that is simply natural -all peoples as a rule maintain their own cultures/languages and pursue their own ethnic/group interests to that end, thats just human nature. On the other side, Pashtuns like Gadoonwal are perfectly reasonable and justified in wanting to reject Tajik influence over Pashtun language, culture and interests (and Im willing to bet that he is more representative of the greater bulk of Pashtuns in Afghanistan than Persianized Pashtuns like Ahmad Zahir). This is why significantly heterogeneous, multi-ethnic states are always a recipe for ethnic conflict.

Im a "Khorasani nationalist" if that means supporting the partition of Afghanistan on ethnic lines (with the creation of "Khorasan" and Pashtunistan in its place) and I couldn't care less which dead guy was what, the issue is really about the self-determination of all the peoples of Afghanistan - Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns. I don't understand why some Pashtuns prefer this failure of a state, most likely doomed to perpetual ethnic strife, to a free and independent Pashtunistan where Pashtuns can advance their own language, culture and interests as they see fit, free from the corrosive Tajik influence.

Let assume Afghanistan is divided by ethnic lines. Will you guys be willing to give Herat and Kabul to us...

[Herat]

Let assume Afghanistan is divided by ethnic lines. Will you guys be willing to give Herat and Kabul to us...

Lol, if it was up to me personally, Id be willing to give you half of the province of Herat and Kabul (and one of the cities); in the long run self determination is far more important than a bit of land as far as Im concerned. Realistically, compromises will have to be made on both sides.

[Badlun]

I to be honest don't blame them. Pashtuns in Pakistan listen to Urdu and Pashtuns in Afghanistan was listing to Dari, which gave them no choice but to sing in the common language. Basically Pashtuns in both countries didn't have a demand for Pashto songs, which forced the artist to sing in language which had high demands.

Now that demand for Pashto songs have increased, so have songs in Pashto. Nowadays in Afghanistan you can find non-Pashtuns singing in Pashto. So we should be blaming the people for not carrying for Pashto at that time.

I understand your position but it can be a double way traffic. An internationally known legend like Ahmed Zahir sings more songs of Pashto and people start listening more to Pashto songs and thus market for Pashto music is expanded.

If Karzai speaks Pashto in UN for example or in a press conference in Kabul, this entails in more respect and demand for Pashto language in the form of translation , media presence and more people who will learn Pashto language and thus more demand for Pashto teachers, books, CDs etc. If Pashto is made compulsory for job seekers in Afghanistan and Pashtun Pakistan, automatically it will promote Pashto.

[DSM0305]

Lol, if it was up to me personally, Id be willing to give you half of the province of Herat and Kabul (and one of the cities); in the long run self determination is far more important than a bit of land as far as Im concerned. Realistically, compromises will have to be made on both sides.

This isn't a laughing matter. Lets be honest these two cities arguably most important cities in Afghanistan. If partition took place, people will go great length to control them.

Now then, lets assume this was solved without problem. Will you divide the remaining land between Hazara, Uzbek, Tajik and Pashtun(there is a big minority of them in the north). If not, then what different would it make, you be just making a smaller version of Afghanistan with different name.

[DSM0305]

I understand your position but it can be a double way traffic. An internationally known legend like Ahmed Zahir sings more songs of Pashto and people start listening more to Pashto songs and thus market for Pashto music is expanded.

If Karzai speaks Pashto in UN for example or in a press conference in Kabul, this entails in more respect and demand for Pashto language in the form of translation , media presence and more people who will learn Pashto language and thus more demand for Pashto teachers, books, CDs etc. If Pashto is made compulsory for job seekers in Afghanistan and Pashtun Pakistan, automatically it will promote Pashto.

Lets assume a person make his first song in Pashto and no one buys it. Do you expect he will make his next in Pashto as well? In the other hand, a person makes his first song in Pashto and everyone buys it, don't you think he will most definitely make his next in Pashto as well?
We may or may not like it, but for artist or any other person money and fame do play a role. One cant keep doing something if he doesn't get some sort of profit from it. If pashtuns themselves don't wanna listen to Pashto, then it is no longer the artist fault.

Today you see as an example that demand for pashto have increased drastically in Afghanistan, that why Pashto is now a widely spread in every place.

[Khostai]

This isn't a laughing matter. Lets be honest these two cities arguably most important cities in Afghanistan. If partition took place, people will go great length to control them.

Now then, lets assume this was solved without problem. Will you divide the remaining land between Hazara, Uzbek, Tajik and Pashtun(there is a big minority of them in the north). If not, then what different would it make, you be just making a smaller version of Afghanistan with different name.

I once asked this question too, to one of those Khorosan lovers, they said that they would use ethnic cleansing. They would remove Pashtuns and than supress the other minorities cultures and languages, or also remove them if they don't cooperate.

[Herat]

This isn't a laughing matter. Lets be honest these two cities arguably most important cities in Afghanistan. If partition took place, people will go great length to control them.

Now then, lets assume this was solved without problem. Will you divide the remaining land between Hazara, Uzbek, Tajik and Pashtun(there is a big minority of them in the north). If not, then what different would it make, you be just making a smaller version of Afghanistan with different name.

It was a funny request -as if I would be making that decision- but I gave you an answer that would be fair, don't you think? As I said, realistically compromises will have to be made for this to work: we won't unreasonably demand regions in Pashtunistan just because there are sizeable non-Pashtun minorities in certain places there and the reverse must hold too. Small minorities exist in every otherwise mostly homogenous state/region out there and they tend not to be a problem; however, it is foolish to want to preserve a greater problem (Afghanistan as it currently is) because of largely irrelevant, small issues (small packets of minorities scattered through the country).


I think the minorities are assimilable: small communities of Tajik and Pashtuns, for example, in the opposite respective regions generally get on relatively well with the larger community , the problem of ethnic conflict truly emerges when you have proportionately sizeable, distinct populations that have competing interests in a single state (Afghanistan).

[Badlun]

Lets assume a person make his first song in Pashto and no one buys it. Do you expect he will make his next in Pashto as well? In the other hand, a person makes his first song in Pashto and everyone buys it, don't you think he will most definitely make his next in Pashto as well?
We may or may not like it, but for artist or any other person money and fame do play a role. One cant keep doing something if he doesn't get some sort of profit from it. If pashtuns themselves don't wanna listen to Pashto, then it is no longer the artist fault.

Today you see as an example that demand for pashto have increased drastically in Afghanistan, that why Pashto is now a widely spread in every place.

Yes Pashtun themselves have to create the market for Pashto music. But once a Pashtun artist is famous in another language, and then he or she starts singling in Pashto, this will give a boost to Pashto music and automatically the DVDs or CDs of Pashto music will be sold like hot cakes owing to the already fame of the artist.

I have a curiosity as since long I did not pass much time in Afghanistan and KP, will any one may tell me that whether Pashtun singers in Afghanistan are equally popular in Pakistan and the Pashtun singers in Pakistan are also popular in Afghanistan or only Afghan Pashtuns listen to Afghan Pashtun singers and Pakistani Pashtuns to their singers?

The same I would like to know about the popularity of Pakistani Pashto movies and Khyber TV in Afghanistan and Afghan Pashto channels in Pakistan?

[DSM0305]

It was a funny request -as if I would be making that decision- but I gave you an answer that would be fair, don't you think? As I said, realistically compromises will have to be made for this to work: we won't unreasonably demand regions in Pashtunistan just because there are sizeable non-Pashtun minorities in certain places there and the reverse must hold too. Small minorities exist in every otherwise mostly homogenous state/region out there and they tend not to be a problem; however, it is foolish to want to preserve a greater problem (Afghanistan as it currently is) because of largely irrelevant, small issues (small packets of minorities scattered through the country).


I think the minorities are assimilable: small communities of Tajik and Pashtuns, for example, in the opposite respective regions generally get on relatively well with the larger community , the problem of ethnic conflict truly emerges when you have proportionately sizeable, distinct populations that have competing interests in a single state (Afghanistan).

If people were reasonable to that extent, why would they want to partition to begin with. What you claim is illogical, the whole reason people want to divide Afghanistan is because of unreasonable power hungry people, but then you for some odd reason expect them to be reasonable when it comes to division...

No one want to give Herat and Kabul to others to begin with. That is also what the current fighting is all about. Every ethnicity want Kabul, no one cares about Kandahar or Panshir etc. So how do you expect them to give each other Kabul, Herat, Mazar'e sharif etc. At least now they have influence over each other, which makes them more or less share it. When division comes in, the one who got it, will have all of it. You can have million soldiers to keep things in control, but the different parties would still wont give an inch of those territories to the opposition.

When the country is divided in Pashtunistan and khorosan. The population and the land mass in Khorosan will be reduced, which means a smaller amount of people is required to have a political power. Those minority who today haven't any political power will all of sudden become a leading party. That includes Pashtun in the north. Uzbek, Hazara and Tajiks will be competing on power. Now everyone knows that these ethnicities doesn't have a friendly tendency with each other. The same ethnic conflict will continue, if not worse because the majority Pashtuns will no longer be able to mediates between them.

The conflict between Uzbek and Tajik is especially widely know. And they compete against each other for the control of the north today. Imagine now a situation where you force Hazaras to join the competition for the control of ''khorosan''. You can believe me or not, but the facts is pretty clear that the fighting will continue in Khorosan if division is made. The competion in the north is already widely spread and division will just fuel it further.

[DSM0305]

I once asked this question too, to one of those Khorosan lovers, they said that they would use ethnic cleansing. They would remove Pashtuns and than supress the other minorities cultures and languages, or also remove them if they don't cooperate.

Exactly, those khorosani nationalist in the west is so blinded by the hatred toward Pashtuns, that they have forgotten the ethnic conflict in the north. The different parties is literally shooting each other in a real ethnic war up in the north. At least the conflict with Pashtuns for the most part is just verbal and indirect, while up north especially between Uzbek and Tajik it is directly.