Debate: PashtunForums Banner

[tor_khan]

P.S You should also put Faqir of ipis photo on the banner as well.

Wel done KKK. Good work

Strategist/Mazloomyar Jan,

There are a couple of suggestions in the http://www.pashtunforums.com/support...t-thanks-2290/ thread - perhaps in Iteration 3 of the banner, KKK might include some of these suggestions (see that same thread again).

[شمله ور خراساني]

Photography is not prohibited. The most strict groups among Muslims have stated that any imagery should be prohibited. But this is the opinion of a very small minority.

However, images of people should be purely functional. Like for identification in passports and id cards.

Paintings of saints, figures from the past, honorable figures, historic figures and such are drawn or displayed to honor them.

Honoring people by displaying their image is in Islam, an act that is considered to lead to Shirk.

Please read the article I posted about this particlular issue:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/orgins-shirk-polytheism-3820/

Let us not fool ourselves. And let us not blind ourselves by nationalism.

It is a fact that images of those people have no purpose what so ever than to honor those people. Since this is the case, in what way is that any different than how the people of Nooh Alaysalaam were led to shirk?


In Islam, we find that Allah prohibits people from going near the sinful action. For example fornication.

So in this case, idol-worship which is a much graver sin, we should evoid more strictly.

I dolworship is a serious matter. I can show you an example of how images of a person eventually lead to building shrines.


This is a case I've seen with my own eyes. In the city of Leiden, where I live, a person has converted his home to an Elvis Shrine:

[tor_khan]

Photography is not prohibited. The most strict groups among Muslims have stated that any imagery should be prohibited. But this is the opinion of a very small minority.

However, images of people should be purely functional. Like for identification in passports and id cards.

Paintings of saints, figures from the past, honorable figures, historic figures and such are drawn or displayed to honor them.

Honoring people by displaying their image is in Islam, an act that is considered to lead to Shirk.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that photography is acceptable on grounds of functionality, but even now, I'm not sure how some conservative men deal with the handing over passports of their wives for airport officials to check (presumably veiled women would be required to reveal faces and this may cause problems). Whilst that is a separate issue, it poses a dilemma, as you mention in your first paragraph for certain groups of Muslims who chose to interpret photography a certain way.

The pictures on the banner are of notable characters from history (some with origins other than Pashtoon). As for honourary figures, you say that eulogising them is akin to idol worship and leads to shirk. Quite right if we are not careful and we simply begin to idolise them in deference to our duty as Muslims. Is there a sensible ground that recognises that no one is calling these people prophets/messengers, and that these people were/are human with human foibles. They are respected for the various contributions they have made and no one should elevate them to some higher heavenly status.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I'm sympathetic to the argument that photography is acceptable on grounds of functionality, but even now, I'm not sure how some conservative men deal with the handing over passports of their wives for airport officials to check (presumably veiled women would be required to reveal faces and this may cause problems). Whilst that is a separate issue, it poses a dilemma, as you mention in your first paragraph for certain groups of Muslims who chose to interpret photography a certain way.

The pictures on the banner are of notable characters from history (some with origins other than Pashtoon). As for honourary figures, you say that eulogising them is akin to idol worship and leads to shirk. Quite right if we are not careful and we simply begin to idolise them in deference to our duty as Muslims. Is there a sensible ground that recognises that no one is calling these people prophets/messengers, and that these people were/are human with human foibles. They are respected for the various contributions they have made and no one should elevate them to some higher heavenly status.

If you have read the artilce I posted about the origins of Shirk, you must have noticed how the 5 pious figures from the people of Nooh Alaysalaam were not considered as idols or gods. But lateron, they did become idols.

That is why in Islam, scholars advice people not to hang portrets or paintings of honorable figures or even worse, build statues.

This is because of a jurisprudential ruling set in all 4 schools of thought. Any action that leads to a sin, is prohibited.

Suppose you go to the market tomorrow and there is a blockade. The shortest alternative way you can reach your destination is via a side road where there are brothels. And you would have to walk all across a street with barely naked women sitting on the porch yelling at you. What are you going to do? Go there anyway? Or try find a longer way that does not take you to the brothels?

Suppose you are very hungry and you have to eat. And there are no halal restaurants around. The only place you find is a pub where they serve alcohol. You decide to go in there and order fish and chips. Would you go there anyway, or would you rather stay hungry and find a better place?

If we apply Islamic jurisprudence here, then we should seek distance from sinful things.

So when this ruling applies to sins such as zina and alcohol, this exact same ruling also applies to eulogizing historic figures.

Let us not fool ourselves. Just look at how people worship Ghani Khan. He was an alcoholic who wrote perverse poetry promoting shirk and fornication.

Yet you guys seem to consider him as a role model.

[Nokia_Apridy]

Faqir Parkiyan uzbak muzbak ba na lagway pkay......

Kam Gharey Alka SANGARA ta na guray chay

TA shuker na ubasey chay ta kam za wa awo bya PUKHTUN shay

ka PUKHTANA darbanday bad lagey ?

[Musafira]

Sangar no offense but with all the problems in the world you are concerned with this? Did you even bother to read his description of the banner? He put a lot of thought into it and Islam is represented in the center (heart) of the banner.

About the Banner and its symbolism:

The mountains in the background are the Mountains of Kabul City, the ancient Afghan Capital for centuries.

The tree in the symbol represents the common lineage of all Afghans as being blood related brothers. It also represents evergreen Islam as the sacred Olive Tree.

Islam is represented as all the white in the symbol including the circle.

The circle represents unbroken Unity between all Afghans whether from Pakistan, Afghanistan or elsewhere. It shows that we are one, unbroken even over time.

The four stars represent the four sons of Qis Abdur Rashid and therefore ALL Afghan Tribes whether from Afghanistan, Pakistan or elsewhere.

The Crown represents the common ancestor Qis Abdur Rashid as well as the fact that Afghans are a great Martial race and have been kings and emperors throughout their history, it also shows our dominance

The lion was the ancient Afghan Emblem of War on the flags of most of the Old Afghan Emperors and kings and represents bravery as well.

The Heroes from Left to right are:

• * Hamza baba Shinwari
• * Abdul Hai Habibi Kakar (who wrote the famous classic masterpiece Pata Khazana)
• * Bacha Khan
• * Shahbuddin Muhammad Ghori
• * Mehmud Ghaznavi
• * Mir Wais Khan Hotak
• * Khushal Baba
• * Rehman Baba
• * Ahmad Shah Baba
• * Sher Shah Suri
• * Nadir Shah Afhshar
• * Amir Karor - One of the earliest Afghan literary masters among many other famous qualitites.
• * Ghani Khan
• * Nazo Ana Tokhi - The Warrior Mother of Mir Wais Hotaki and a classical poet of Pukhto.

[eyeliner]

i think we should have a picture of malailai, because she is a heroine, all the banner depictions are of men, i think we women need a little of a representation. The banner is patriarchal in that sense. Although i do think that the banner shows the achievements our graan masheran.

[Master Khan]

there is a girl right at the end.

[eyeliner]

well firstly who is she and secondly its hardly prominent.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar no offense but with all the problems in the world you are concerned with this? Did you even bother to read his description of the banner? He put a lot of thought into it and Islam is represented in the center (heart) of the banner.

Shirk is the worst sin of all.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

The banner represents, among some otherwise good men, religious extremists, raiders, war-mongers, etc. My point is that political correctness is not something that was taken into account while the banner was being (re)designed.

[Master Khan]

the famous pashtun women is sharbat gula

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Shirk is the worst sin of all.

Leaving Islam 5 years ago is also a death penalty.

Sangar calls praising pashtun historical figures as Sin


What has the world come too.

haha

Kind Regards

[eyeliner]

actually sharbat gula, was just a famous face, come on no one even knew her name at first, until they found her again. Malilalai was a heroine at maiwand....she said whoever doesnt fall at maiwand is probably being saved as a symbol of shame. Thanks to her maiwand was won, the biggest defeat, in the second war.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Leaving Islam 5 years ago is also a death penalty.

Sangar calls praising pashtun historical figures as Sin

but on the other hand, Mr Sangar the Dutch National Tajik says its Halal to keep Slaves and supports Saudi Clerics to legalise it.

What has the world come too.

haha

Kind Regards

Try harder.