Has anyone here changed your mind about something?

[Manzareh]

Can you please quote any verse of the holy Qur'an where shave, music, dance, photos, covering the whole body of women and except few dietary injunctions which has a context, prohibit what to eat and what not.

I read Qur'an with context and shane nazool. Many injunctions can be reinterpreted according to the modern times. For example I do not believe in polygamy or equating two women with one man in evidence and inheritance because these injunctions have other interpretations.

For example the verse of polygamy can be only applied in extreme cases and that only and only limited to orphans when they do not get husbands but not to all Muslims.
Read the verse with open eyes please.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:
And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 305)

1) Why do you need direct quotes from the Quran? An average Quran is only 600 pages, even then maybe just 30% of these pages are direct laws and rules, so how do you expect to derive the laws of your whole life and intricate details of specific actions like shaving, music from just 180 pages?..anyhow, in the Quran it says do not eat pork but you still eat pork SO even if the things you mentioned were mentioned in the Quran (they might be) would you listen or would it make a difference? I think not, so why even ask that question in the first instance?


2) if the Qur'an was open to human interpretation then each individual would have their own Islam based on their own rogue desires and it would defeat the object, you are a perfect example of this.

[Badlun]

1) Why do you need direct quotes from the Quran? An average Quran is only 600 pages, even then maybe just 30% of these pages are direct laws and rules, so how do you expect to derive the laws of your whole life and intricate details of specific actions like shaving, music from just 180 pages?..anyhow, in the Quran it says do not eat pork but you still eat pork SO even if the things you mentioned were mentioned in the Quran (they might be) would you listen or would it make a difference? I think not, so why even ask that question in the first instance?


2) if the Qur'an was open to human interpretation then each individual would have their own Islam based on their own rogue desires and it would defeat the object, you are a perfect example of this.

Your words were that Muhammad is not prohibiting you rather the Qur'an and Allah is prohibiting you. So I wanted to know where Quran prohibits all this?

Quran is less than 10% about laws and regulations rest only beliefs, worship and morality. Even this 10 % has moral underpinning not direct laws. That is why Islam is a complete religion but not a complete system.

What is your take on polygamy? Qur'an allows it only for orphans but why every Muslim can have four wives?

[Manzareh]

Your words were that Muhammad is not prohibiting you rather the Qur'an and Allah is prohibiting you. So I wanted to know where Quran prohibits all this?

Quran is less than 10% about laws and regulations rest only beliefs, worship and morality. Even this 10 % has moral underpinning not direct laws. That is why Islam is a complete religion but not a complete system.

What is your take on polygamy? Qur'an allows it only for orphans but why every Muslim can have four wives?

The testimony of a Muslim is "I bare witness that there is no God but Allah, and i bare witness that Muhammad is his Messanger" also when we pray 5 times a day we praise Muhammad in the actual prayer through something called "darud".. my point is if Muhammad prohibits something then its Allah prohibiting something through his messenger, so when Muhammad pbuh is prohibiting you from music or whatever it may be it is not himself placing his own laws which you like to assume but rather implementing the laws of Allah.

"Islam is a complete religion but not a complete system" like I said that sentence is an oxymoron and lacks any intelligence because what makes Islam (religion) is a compilation of systems the followers of Islam must adhere to, without any system to follow there wouldn't be any Islam. So, without Islam having a system the followers could not call it a complete religion.

As for polygamy, I'm not sure about it as its not something that affects me or something I need to know about because I don't plan on having more than 1 wife, I'd rather spend my time researching parts of Islam that I come across in my day to day life.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Refutation of rejection of the authority of Sunnah as legislation in Islam

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

First of all, the one who rejects the authority of Sunnah as legislation is a kafir. There is no doubt about it. There are plenty of verses in the Quran indicating that the one who obeys Allah is obliged to obey the Prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasalam.
Allah Subhanahu wa ta’ala says in Surah al Najm verse 3-4:

وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ ٱلۡهَوَىٰٓ إِنۡ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحۡىٌ۬ يُوحَىٰ

Nor does he speak of (his own) desire It is only a Revelation revealed.
In the above statement Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala testifies that his Messenger sal allahu alayhi wasalam does not speak out of whims and desires. Everything he says regarding this religion is in fact revelation from our creator.
Likewise Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala says in Surah Nahl verse 44:

وَأَنزَلۡنَآ إِلَيۡكَ ٱلذِّڪۡرَ لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيۡہِمۡ وَلَعَلَّهُمۡ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ

And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’an)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought
Here Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala tells us that his Messenger sal allahu alayhi wasalam is instructed to explain the Quran to us. Thus, the role of the Messenger sal allahu alayhi wasalam is not merely to hand out a book to people and let them to decide by themselves what it means and what it says, but rather it is his job to teach us and give us the correct understanding and interpretation of Quran.
When Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala revealed the last revelation to mankind, he gave us his word that he will protect his revelation from corruption when he stated in Surah al Hijr verse 9:

إِنَّا نَحۡنُ نَزَّلۡنَا ٱلذِّكۡرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ ۥ لَحَـٰفِظُونَ

Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)
Since the Sunnah, the commandments of the Prophet sal allahu alayhi wasalam is also a revelation as explained in the verse 3-4 of Surah al Najm, similarly, Allahs promise of protecting it applies here. So who ever claims that the Sunnah is corrupted and lost, is lying against Allah wa ayadhu billah.
Allah subhanahu ta ta’ala says in Surah Anbiyah verse 45:

قُلۡ اِنَّمَاۤ اُنۡذِرُکُمۡ بِالۡوَحۡیِ ۫ۖ وَ لَا یَسۡمَعُ الصُّمُّ الدُّعَآءَ اِذَا مَا یُنۡذَرُوۡنَ

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “I warn you only by the Revelation (from Allah and not by the opinion of the religious scholars and others). But the deaf (who follow the religious scholars and others blindly) will not hear the call, (even) when they are warned [i.e. one should follow only the Qur’an and the Sunnah (legal ways, orders, acts of worship, and the statements of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, as the Companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did)

It is the Quran that we refer to when we want to know the status of Sunnah in legislation. As it is clear from the verse here above, the Messenger was given the revelation, and he was conveying nothing but the revelation to mankind.

Anyone denying that the Sunnah has legislative status in Islam is clearly a kafir. According to all 4 schools of law, such a person is an apostate, his wife is divorced, if he dies he is not burried among Muslims and one is to avoid giving him salam.

[Badlun]

All the above verses are for Qur'an not for hadith. Because there are week , false, strong and true hadith. Then how every word of the hadith is to be followed? It is possible that hadith prohibiting music, shave , dance, uncovering the body of women may be false and we are not bound to follow them. How false hadith can be a source for legislation?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Speculation by an infidel.

[Alchemist]

Speculation by an infidel.

Is speculation a characteristic of infidels exclusively?

I know some pious believers that speculate on some "truths" of religion...as a matter of fact scholars speculate on each other's works and come up with different fatwas on the same issue, so is it not fair to say that the interpreters of "sunnah" can be questioned? Or rather, your own interpretation cannot be questioned as oppose to anothers?

It's funny that you say that a forum is not a place of changing minds, when really all you are saying is that you can't change your own mind because you fear to speculate and question, which doesn't really mean that you are open to have a "discussion" but only dictate your own opinions as legitimate truths.

I have changed my mind on who the real muslims are and who the infidels because I have noticed that infidels make a valid criticism of the mannerism and hypocrisies of so called "traditionalists". And it has lead me to believe that for there to be a true "islamic Renaissance"...everything about Islam has be upon to speculation, critical thinking and reformation...err..ya i said the R word. Deal with it

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Oh hi, rafidi.

[Alchemist]

Oh hi, rafidi.

I just want to remind you that dialogue is necessary for peace, and that it is the supposedly what the root word of islam means? I just don't understand why you won't agree with some of the valid hypocrisies about your beliefs. Or in some cases delusions - clearly I am not a rafidi, and whatever you think "rafidi" means doesn't even mean that. If this is your attitude here, then you are nothing more than a troll because all you are is frustrated and annoyed all the time. If your mind can't be changed and your thoughts are stale then you have nothing to offer but endless drama.