If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
There once lived an old man and his good-wife
On the shore of the deep blue ocean;
They lived in a tumble-down hovel
For thirty-three summers and winters.
The old man used to fish for his living,
And his wife spun yarn on her distaff.
He once cast his net in the ocean,
And pulled it up with mud from the bottom;
He again cast his net in the ocean,
And this time caught nothing but seaweed;
When he cast his net for the third time,
One fish was all that he landed,
No common fish, though, but a goldfish.
Now the goldfish began to implore him,
And it spoke like a real human being:
«Put me back, old man, into the ocean —
I will pay you a right royal ransom,
I wilt give you whatever you ask me.»
The old man was astonished and frightened —
He'd been fishing for thirty-three summers,
Bat had not heard of any fish talking.
So with care he untangled the goldfish
And tenderly said as he did so:
«God bless you, my dear little goldfish!
Thank you kindly, I don't want your ransom.
Go back to your home in the ocean,
And roam where you will without hindrance.»
To his wife the old fisherman hastened
To tell her about this great marvel.
«I caught only one fish this morning —
A goldfish it was, most uncommon;
It spoke like a Christian, and begged me
To put it back into the ocean,
And promised to pay a rich ransom,
To give me whatever I asked for.
But how could I ask for a ransom?
I released it without any payment.»
His wife started scolding her husband:
«Oh you simpleton! Oh yon great silly!
Couldn't make a mere fish pay a ransom!
You at least might have asked for a wash-tub -
For ours is all falling to pieces!»
The old man returned to the seashore,
Where the blue waves were frolicking lightly.
He called out aloud for the goldfish,
And the goldfish swam up and demanded:
«What is it, old man, you are wanting?»
With a bow, the old man said in answer:
«Forgive me, Your Majesty Goldfish!
My old woman has scolded me roundly—
Won't leave me alone for a minute,
She says that she wants a new wash-tub,
For ours is all falling to pieces.»
The goldfish murmured in answer:
«Do not worry, go home, God be with you —
Very well, you shall have a new wash-tub.»
To his wife the old fisherman hastened,
And behold — there it was, the new wash-tub.
But she scolded him louder than ever:
«Oh you simpleton! Oh you great silly!
To ask for a tub—a mere wash-tub!
What good can you get from a wash-tab?
Return to the goldfish, you silly,
Bow down low and ask for a cottage.»
Again he went back to the seashore,
And this time the blue sea was troubled.
He called out aloud for the goldfish,
And the goldfish swam up and demanded:
«What is it, old man, you are wanting?»
With a bow, the old man said in answer:
«Forgive me, Your Majesty Goldfish!
My old woman is angrier than ever,
Won't leave me alone for a minute—
The old scold says she wants a new cottage.»
The goldfish murmured in answer:
«Do not worry, go home, God be with you!
So be it! You'll have a new cottage!»
So back the old man turned his footsteps;
Not a sign did he see of his hovel.
In its place stood a new gabled cottage,
With a chimney of brick, newly whitewashed,
A fence with oak gates stood around it;
And there sat his wife at a window;
When she saw him, she scolded him roundly:
«Oh you simpleton! Oh you great silly!
To ask for no more than a cottage!
Go and bow to the goldfish, and tell it
That I'm tired of being a peasant,
That I want to be made a fine lady.»
The old man then returned to the seashore,
Where the ocean was restlessly foaming,
He called out aloud for the goldfish.
The goldfish swam up and demanded:
«What is it, old man, you are wanting?»
With a bow, the old man said in answer:
«Forgive me, Your Majesty Goldfish!
My old woman is madder than ever,
She gives me no rest for a second,
Says she's tired of being a peasant,
And wants to be made a fine lady.»
The goldfish murmured in answer:
«Do not worry, go home, God be with you.»
To his wife the old fisherman hastened,
And what did he see? — a tall mansion;
On its white marble stairs — his old woman.
She was wearing a rich sable jacket,
And s head-dress, in gold all embroidered;
Her neck was with pearls heavy laden;
She wore golden rings on her fingers;
She was shod in the softest red leather;
Zealous servants bowed meekly before her,
As she cuffed them and rated them roundly.
The old man then approached his wife, saying.
«Greetings, your ladyship, greetings, fine lady!
Now I hope that your soul is contented!»
She angrily bade him be silent
And sent him to serve in the stables.
First a week slowly passed, then another,
The old woman grew prouder than ever.
One morning she sent for her husband,
And said: «Bow to the goldfish and tell it
I am tired of being a lady,
And I want to be made a Tsaritsa.»
Her husband implored her in terror,
Saying: «Woman—you've surely gone crazy!
You can't even talk like a lady!
You'd be mocked at all over the kingdom!
His old woman grew madder than ever,
Slapped his face and then shouted in passion:
«How dare you, muzhik, stand and argue,
Stand and argue with me, a fine lady?
Go at once — if you don't, then I warn you,
You'll be dragged to the shore, willy-nilly.»
The old man went down to the seashore
(The ocean was swollen and sullen).
He called out aloud for the goldfish,
And the goldfish swam up and demanded:
«What is it, old man, yon are wanting?»
With a bow, the old man said in answer:
«Forgive me, Your Majesty Goldfish!
Again my old woman's gone crazy!
Now she's tired of being a lady!
She wants to be made a Tsaritsa.
The goldfish murmured in answer:
Do not worry, go home, God be with you!
Very well! She shall be a Tsaritsa!»
To his wife the old fisherman hastened,
And what did he see? A grand palace;
In the palace he saw his old woman,
At the table she sat, a Tsaritsa,
Attended by nobles and boyards;
They were pouring choice wines in her goblet,
She was nibbling sweet gingerbread wafers;
Around her, grim guards stood in silence,
With halberds upon their broad shoulders.
The old man was aghast when he saw this,
He bowed to her feet and said humbly:
«Greetings, Oh mighty Tsaritsa!
Now I hope that your soul is contented!»
But she gave not a glance at her husband —
She ordered him thrust from her presence.
The boyards and nobles all hastened
And drove him with blows from the chamber;
The guards at the door waved their halberds
And threatened to cut him to pieces.
All the people derided him, saying.
«Serves you right, now, you ill-bred old fellow.
You churl—this will teach you a lesson,
To keep to your station in future!»
First a week slowly passed, then another;
The old woman grew prouder than ever.
She sent for her husband one morning,
And her chamberlain haled him before her.
The old woman spoke thus to her husband:
«Go, bow to the goldfish, and tell it
That I'm tired of being Tsaritsa,
Of the seas I want to be mistress,
With my home in the blue ocean waters;
The goldfish I want for my servant
To do my commands and my errands.»
The old man durst not contradict her,
Nor open his lips to make answer.
He sadly set out for the seashore.
A tempest raged over the ocean,
Its waters were swollen and angry,
Its billows were boiling with fury.
He called out aloud for the goldfish.
The goldfish swam up and demanded:
«What is it, old man, you are wanting?»
With a bow, the old man said in answer;
«Forgive me, Your Majesty Goldfish!
What shall I do with my cursed old woman?
She is tired of being Tsaritsa,
Of the seas she now wants to be mistress,
With her home in the blue ocean waters;
She wants you to be her own servant,
To do her commands and her errands.»
Not a word spoke the goldfish in answer,
It just swished its tail, and in silence
Disappeared in the depths of the ocean.
He waited in vain for an answer,
And at last turned his steps to the palace;
And behold — there again stood his hovel;
On the doorstep sat his old woman,
With the same broken wash-tab before her.
However, if one considers the sofra of Nowruz as a whole and disregards the letter sin, its essential items perfectly afford reasonable explanation as the reflections of the pastoral and sedentary conditions of ancient Iranians and of their beliefs, especially with regard to the Aməša Spəntas (q.v). Its preparation on the eve of the Nowruz, and the widespread belief that the souls of the departed come down and partake of the table, clearly connect it with the All Souls festival (see FRAWARDĪGĀN). The eggs (toḵm) symbolize people (mardom, from *martiya tauxman- ‘mortal seed’; in the town of Ḵor eggs are placed under the bench prepared for the bride with the hope that she may bear children: Honari, p. 33 n. 1) and point to the Creator; the milk represents the cattle and Vohu Manah/Bahman, the candles purifying fire and Aša Vahištā/Ardibehešt, the coins wealth and Xšaθra vairya/Šahrivar; the hyacinth symbolizes both Haurvatāt/Kordād and Amərətāt/(A)Mordād (Russell, p. 382), as do the water, the sabza and the sabzi; the musk willow represents Spənta Armaiti/Spandārmad, as does the wild rue (sepand/esfand), which has kept part of her name. More interestingly, her healing power (possessing one thousand remedies, ten thousand remedies: Yt 1.27) may be indicated by the garlic, which was so esteemed by the Iranians as a medicine and a means of warding off the evil eye and demonic power that the Persians named one of their months Θāigarči- ‘Month of garlic’ (cf. Kent, Old Persian, p. 187). Anāhid is represented by the (rain)water collected specially for the occasion. The samanu, which is absolutely essential for the sofra and is considered so powerful an aphrodisiac that some call it “the strength of the patriarch” (Honari, p. 123), must also be attributed to Anāhid because it is generally prepared (even among the Kurds, who do not set out the haft sin; Bois, p. 477) only by women, who while stirring the cooking mixture make wishes that they may get good husbands or fine children. Furthermore, the dish is prepared as an offering in the name of the highly revered Fāṭema-ye Zahrā-ye maʿṣum “Fāṭeme the infallible Zahrā” (Zahrā is also the Planet Venus/Anāhid; for the connection see Eilers, pp. 97-108; see FĀṬEMA ii. in MYTH, FOLKLORE, and POPULAR DEVOTION). The Kara Māhi, which swims in the Vourukaša sea and wards off harmful creatures (Boyce, Zoroastrianism I, p. 89), is represented by the fish in the jar. This analysis, which can be taken much further, shows that the essential objects of the Nowruz table are very ancient and meaningful (cf. Christensen, p. 158; Massé, Croyances, p. 156), while the idea of the haft sin is recent and the result of popular fancy tastefully developed into a pleasant ritual.
Islamic is only beliefs, worship(the pillars of Islam) and morality. Nothing beyond that.
lol what is there beyond that
There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
the reason and logic you mention fall into badlun's "beliefs" category. abdullah gul's reason and logic probably won't be the same as jim bob's.
science is science and no person or ideology has any exclusive right to it.
There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
the reason and logic you mention fall into badlun's "beliefs" category. abdullah gul's reason and logic probably won't be the same as jim bob's.
science is science and no person or ideology has any exclusive right to it.
How can reason and logic fall into something you believe in?
A "believe" is called a believe because there is no logical and reasonable access to it. Believing means accepting something without any proof.
And yes, no ideology or belief system has any rights on science.
But you asked "what is there beyong religion/believe" and I sayed:
everything with a foundation in scientific laws and theories that can be understood through reproductable experiments.
My point was that there is alot beyond belief/religion.
Comment