Are balochis really descended from kurds and azeris?

[Sakapane]

Indo-Iranians are not from current day Arab countries that's a well known fact. Genetics, history etc. supports it.

The fact is also that Aleppo never was Kurdish and never will be. The Kurdish region in Syria is extremely small and is found in the Northeastern part of the country.

The haplogroup J2 originates in Northern Iraq and is the "brother" of the J1 and both of them orginate from the haplogroup J - which is a Semetic haplogroup.



I saw a couple of your 12 posts and in one of them you even say that Assyrians and Arabs are more or less the same (which they are) since both are Semetics and have the same origin.

Source? Are you really that stubborn or do you really believe the nonsense you talk here?

Haplogroup J* is nowhere found in Arabic populations. So J1 can not be an Arabic haplogroup, this nonsense I only come across by Arabs. Haplogroup J originated somewhere between East Anatolia, West Iran and North Iraq. This Haplogroup is the paternal Haplogroup of J1 and J2. J2 originated in North Iraq (Kurdish area and is frequent as 28% among Kurds there) and J1 originated in East Anatolia, Allele frequency and diversity of J1 shows that it originated there while Arab J1 is almost always J1c3d which indicates endogamy and same paternal heritage (probably some Eastern Anatolians moved into Arabian peninsula and had their good time there). All other subclades like J1b, J1a and J1d are only found between the Caucasus, East Anatolia, North Iraq and West Iran.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n3/abs/ejhg2009166a.html

That was the first point.

The original inhabitants of Northern Iraq are the Assyrians - one of the oldest Semetic people

Do you always take your claims out of your a...? You sound like a Guy I already know.

Assyrians originated from Akkadians. Akkad was located in South-Central Iraq.




after Assyria developed from Akkadia in CENTRAL Iraq they moved into Hurria and Gutäer (where the Gutians lived, a people of the mountains and the name givers of Kurds)

Anatolia is not Indo-Iranian territory anyway.

just in your recent post you claimed Indo-Iranian homeland might be Central Asia, Iran or Anatolia. Stop wasting my time Kido.

Here is the Indo-Iranians original homeland:



Search "Andronovo culture".

It also make sense with the spread of Indo-European languages and Indo-Iranian peoples.

And which part of, Central Asia has culturally, historically and genetically more relation to West Asia than the Arabian Peninsula, did you not understand?

If you go that far back than Semites originated somewhere between Egypt and Jordania. So what now? And like I said Kurds do have other ancestors as well.

Genetics of Kurds Assyrians and other people.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadC1kRjhxcHNfSGhPYlUxbEI0VVZPR0E#gid=0

West Asian in Kurds 53% in Assyrian 51.5%

This shows us that Assyrians are largely native Hurrians assimilated by Semites so much to your "semitic origin" of Assyrians.


Forget about all of this, are you really that bold to discuss with me what belongs to whom historically? You Arabs which 60% of your lands are just conquered and do not historically belong to you want to tell me what belongs to us historically? You from Kuzhestan an ancient Iranic and Elamite region? seriously? Do you even know that a huge part of South Urfa in Southeast Anatolia was Arabized by Arabs from Syria?

Stop wasting my time kido. Even if (what is nonsense) Aleppo was a "Semitic" place you Arabs did take much more non semitic areas.

[Sakapane]

Also read this article from Britannica Online Encyclopedia:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...nian-languages

All sources agree that Indo-Iranians are not native to the Middle East but rather Central Asia/Euroasian Steppe.

That's also where the most common haplogroup among Indo-Iranian peoples originate from (R1a Haplogroup Y-DNA) To this day it's the by far most common haplogroup in Central Asia.

R1a maybe originated in Central Asia but was spread around the World some 5-6000 Years ago. What about E1b1b which is the main semitic Haplogroup and originated somewhere in Egypt or Ethiopia?

[Sakapane]

No, the main Semetic group is J. Everyone knows this. Apparently not you.

The oldest Semetic cultures were found in modern day Iraq, the oldest langauge (Akkadian), civilization (Akkadian) as well. Prophet Ibrahim (as) was also born in ancient Iraq.

Dude are you not capable to understand? Which part of" J is not found among Arabs" do you not understand. J* nor J1* was found ever among Arabic speakers. J1 is the paternal Haplogroup of J1c3d ( the main Haplogroup among Semites together with E1b) and was only found in Anatolia, Iran, North Iraq and Caucasus.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n3/abs/ejhg2009166a.html

Iraq is a country created by Brits with "Iraq" now you try to generalize the area lol. Yes in Iraq but South Iraq not North.

You are just some frustrated atheist Kurd who is trying to change simple facts.

No you simply have zero knowledge about genetics or are mentally not capable to understand, and I have no time teaching it to you kido.

We are going too off topic I dont need to prove an Arab from Kuzhestan (Iranic land) that my people have the right to live on their land. Also interesting that you seem to ignore the fact that your ancestors came from Egypt or Jordania. Whats up cant you find any arguments against this?

[Sakapane]

copy and pasting things from other websites and this multiple times.
i bet you dont even understand 50% of what you post yourself.

[Sakapane]

Look man, I was bit heated so harsher than usual. I dont want to insult you, so we end this discussion. Everyone has his own opinion. But let me tell you something. if you claim anywhere else that Haplogroup J or more oddly J2 is semitic they will laugh at you. Just look at the link to the newest study I have posted.

[Sakapane]

Kid I suggest you really to watch over some help. You are putting words in my mouth I never said and fight against arguments I never did. And try to attack my arguments I have proven with new studies, with help of Wikipedia.

If your so into Wikipedia this might interest you.

Further information: Haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA)

Two Y-DNA haplogroups are supposed to be connected with Iranic peoples: J2 and R1a1.

R1 is more closely linked to Iranians, while R1b is linked to Europeans.

J2a:

Haplogroup J2 especially the clade J2a is frequently found among almost all groups of Iranic people. In comparison with the haplogroup R1a1, J2 is not only restricted to geographically eastern and western Iranic populations, but also found among north-western and south-western Iranic populations such as the Bakhtiaris and Mazanderani,[68][69] as well as geographically north-western Iranic Ossetians.[70] Despite its supposed origin in the fertile crescent, J2a is also found among Iranic populations in the east such as the Yagnobi which are of Soghdian origin[71] as well as the Parsis of India.[72] Beside the relatively high percentage among the Yagnobis in Central Asia, other Iranic populations tend to have a higher frequency of J2a when compared to neighboring Turkic populations. The relatively strong presence of J2a among Ossetians as well as Yagnobis proves distant from the supposed Mesopotamian origin region of J2, are carriers of this Haplogroup.

In the Indo-Iranian context, the occurrence of J2a in South Asia is limited to caste populations, with the highest frequencies found among northern areas of South Asia.[73][74] Compared with R1a1, J2a shows a more conservative distribution, stronger limited to Indo-Iranian origin groups.[73]

R:

Many Haplotypes of Y-chromosomal Haplogroup R have been found throughout the Iranian Plateau, and it has been suggested that this Haplogroup may have had its origins in Iran. Cambridge University geneticist Toomas Kivisild has suggested : "Given the geographic spread and STR diversities of sister clades R1 and R2, the latter of which is restricted to India, Pakistan, Iran, and southern central Asia, it is possible that southern and western Asia were the source for R1 and R1a differentiation."(Kivisild et al. 2003). A similar conclusion was given by population geneticist Miguel Regueiro in the Journal of Human Heredity (Regueiro et al. Human Heredity vol. 61 (2006), pp. 132–143)

Genetic studies conducted by Cavalli-Sforza have revealed that Iranians have weak correlation with Near Eastern groups, and are closer to surrounding Indo-Europeans speaking populations.[75] This study is partially supported by another one, based on Y-Chromosome haplogroups.[76]

The findings of this study reveal many common genetic markers found among the Iranian people from the Tigris river of Iraq to the Indus of Pakistan. This correlates with the Iranian languages spoken from the Caucasus to Kurdish areas in the Zagros region and eastwards to western Pakistan and Tajikistan and parts of Uzbekistan in Central Asia. The extensive gene flow is perhaps an indication of the spread of Iranian-speaking people, whose languages are now spoken mainly on the Iranian plateau and adjacent regions.

Another recent study of the genetic landscape of Iran was done by a team of Cambridge geneticists led by Dr. Maziar Ashrafian Bonab (an Iranian Azarbaijani).[77] Bonab remarked that his group had done extensive DNA testing on different language groups, including Indo-European and non Indo-European speakers, in Iran.[67] The study found that the Azerbaijanis of Iran do not have a similar FSt and other genetic markers found in Anatolian and European Turks. However, the genetic Fst and other genetic traits like MRca and mtDNA of Iranian Azeris were identical to Persians in Iran. Azaris of Iran also show very close genetic ties to Kurds.[78]

[Sakapane]

Dude I said I am sorry for the insults but someone like you really doesnt deserve something else. Dont you understand, that neither Haplogroup J, J1 nmor J2 are Arab. J2 has its highest frequency among Ingush people of the Caucasus and is very weak among Arabs. J1 is strongest among Dargins (88% which you Arabs can only dream off). J is paternal Haplogroup of J1 and J2 and is believed to originated somewhere in Eastern Anatolia A NON SEMITIC Region.

You permanently attack my arguments with your silly and stupid claims.

So why do you not try to disprove my claims? First disprove this claims than come back and talk.

1. Semitic People are Afroasiatic speakers. Afroasiatic language originated somewhere between Egypt, Algeria and Jordania. So you are invaders of Near East from Africa. real natives in this case would only be the Summerians.

2. You are from Kuzhestan a Iranic and Elamite area and claim this for "Semitc people".

Your knowledge about genetics, history or linguistic is comparable to that of an 10 year old kid.