do you (afghan) celebrate the nawroz( نورز ) day?

[Manzareh]

Stop blabbering on about pakistan this, zaid hamid paki bullcrap all the time, save it for someone that cares

[badmash_khel]

Yes yes, but badmash thats different, THIS number 7 in nowroz is shirk it has a clear meaning and foundation of associating partners with Allah. to say its not shirk just because the number 7 is used in Islam is ridiculous, and i hope your not trying to say its something Islamic now!!!. Its not a Pashtun thing, its Persian Zoroastrian thing. theres also levels in shirk bro

That number 7 was just a joke. Most pashtuns I know don't make Haft Seen as Persians do neither do Kurds. We all have our own ways of celebrating the start of new year and spring. As its been proven the celebration of Spring is older than Zoroastrianism. If you can prove to me Islamically that eating Haft Mewa on Nouruz is haram then I will accept it. The rules of Islam state everything is Halal until explicitly mentioned as Haram. Its not the other way around where everything is haram until proven halal.
If its not a pashtun thing then how come the old rulers of pashtun regions such as Arachosia (kandahar) and Gandhara (peshawar, swat) bringing gifts to the persian king in Persopolis?
Its very clear that after the arrival of Islam the people changed their old customs in accordance with Islam. Just read what tor_khan wrote about Akhtar. He says Akhtar could have come from "Yakh Ter" meaning cold weather ending. So when pashtuns became muslims they used that same name for the Islamic festivals of Eid. Why else would we call Eid Akhtar?
The same with this stupid bani isreal descent theory. After the arrival of Islam pashtuns learned that most prophets came to Bani Isreal so they conjured up a story to make a place for themselves in their newly accepted religion. In the DNA thread, it was found that those Afghans claiming to be Arab were actually more closely related to India.

All these examples show that after the arrival of Islam people tried to use it for their own interests.

I know there are levels of shirk thats why I mentioned those examples because calling every little thing shirk devalues the real meaning of Shirk.

[Sandara]

wow you guys celebrate this day? lol

yes, we have always celebrated it but never made samanak

[Sandara]

lol
yeah samanak
that is the dumbest **** and nowadays they are pushing it on Afghans through the tv.

it's not bad thing though its made of wheat which is not haram

[badmash_khel]

but to majority espcially parsiwaans this day is somehow sacred and they even have their rituals such as janda in mazari sharief.
some even say it nowroz is islamic.

Let Allah (swt) be the judge of that. Allah (swt) tells us not to read into peoples hearts as Allah (swt) is the only one who turly knows peoples intentions behind their actions. Its not for us to say if they have other motives in their hearts.
Whats so unislamic about raising the janda? Last time I checked the janda has Quranic ayats on them and its in a mosque in mazar e sharif. People just want to have some halal fun so just let them be.

what do you mean bani Israell ancestery of pashtuns is stupid?
are you claiming that all our ancesters at one time gather up and made up a big lie about their origins?
do you think our ancesters are liars?

Oh God, not this again. For the thousandth time, just check the DNA threads and use some logic where pashtuns are located and historical facts. There is no historical record of Isrealite migration to Afghanistan. That bani isreal theory was popularized by Mizghan e Afghani book written in the court of Mughals (pashtuns enemy) by a farsiwan (nematullah herawi of herat). I am Ghilzai pashtun and none of my grandfather ever told me we are bani isreal. Why do you assume that all pashtuns claim descent from Bani Isreal?

We do we speak pashto then instead of hebrew or Aramaic? Are you implying that we adopted pashto and its not our language? Why is pashto related to Avestan which is related to Sanskrit rather than Arabic or hebrew?

[tor_khan]

I thought you Pakisstrrrrrnis know that language well enough....Iqbal wrote poets in Farsi and your national anthem is in Farsi.

Mostafa! Behave yourself! Let go of the Grand Mufti-e-Lahore name calling . Manzareh has a kind of anti-Persian thing. To a point I understand, but he misses the historic connection and the important role that Farsi has had in the region. He is from Swat, like me, and we were an independent state till 1969 where perhaps he forgets that it was still Farsi that was used in administration/correspondence. Older correspondence, literature, print currency and the postage stamps were clearly in Farsi. The older educated folk were taught Farsi (and later Urdu) much before Pashto became the norm in schools. I should add, that the teaching of Pashto in Pakistan was almost non-existant, but it has long been taught in Swat if not supported elsewhere. The key point, however, is that whether you choose to call it Farsi, Persian, Tajiki or Dari or any other name, it is not unusual to the lands that became part of Pakistan. Acknowledging this does not make your Pashto weaker. Rather, I believe , it makes it stronger because you see the links between the languages.

Manzareh, in Pakistan, they celebrate Basant, what do you think of that?

acceptable or no?

http://pakistaniat.com/2008/03/22/ba...ival-pakistan/

Good point RTR. Back to Spring Fesitvals. The fact is that Spring Festivals exist in-spite of Islam - whether we call it NowRuz or Basant or the Spring Equinox or Easter / whatever. NowRuz is celebrated in parts of Pakistan's Northern Tip where the Afghan Wakhan Corridor meets Gilgit-Baltistan/ Tajikistan. My cousin's wife is from Gilgit and NowRuz exists in the form that they have adapted there.

Also Pakistan state television ran items on NowRuz this year. (Read above). The larger population in Pakistan is the Panjabis and they have their Basant Festivals which are celebrated all over the Panjab. This is an old Hindu Spring Festival (Vasant) that follows Holi and that goes back to ancient times. It's still very much part of the Panjabi Muslim cultural fabric.

[MostafaM]

Mostafa! Behave yourself! Let go of the Grand Mufti-e-Lahore name calling . Manzareh has a kind of anti-Persian thing. To a point I understand, but he misses the historic connection and the important role that Farsi has had in the region. He is from Swat, like me, and we were an independent state till 1969 where perhaps he forgets that it was still Farsi that was used in administration/correspondence. Older correspondence, literature, print currency and the postage stamps were clearly in Farsi. The older educated folk were taught Farsi (and later Urdu) much before Pashto became the norm in schools. I should add, that the teaching of Pashto in Pakistan was almost non-existant, but it has long been taught in Swat if not supported elsewhere. The key point, however, is that whether you choose to call it Farsi, Persian, Tajiki or Dari or any other name, it is not unusual to the lands that became part of Pakistan. Acknowledging this does not make your Pashto weaker. Rather, I believe , it makes it stronger because you see the links between the languages.

Tor Khan,

1. it´s not the first time that Manzareh, wherever the hell he comes from, has shown is anti-Afghan sentiments. I can remember his brainwashed pakified rantings when he asked if a small Afghan girl was Hindu just because he doesn´t know how common tattoos on the forhead or chin amongst Pashtun women were back in the old days.

Everything he can come with is Tajik here-Tajik there.....he should acknowledge that he maybe far away from being Pashtun, but his Pakistani identity is by far more persianized than he wants to acknowledge.

2. name calling is bad, true.
But I won´t let these ID-less boys who were born into British ghettoes question 5000 years of Pashtun/Afghan identity and history.

He should behave like a normal human being and people will deal with him that way.

3. Swat was independent untill 1969?
Hmm, since it´s part of KPK, former NWFP, I don´t think that´s accurate.

4. Farsi and Pashto are related languages and I never questioned that. I just questioned Manzarehs anti-Farsi/Dari rantings by showing him how deep Farsi culture has influenced him and whatever he stands for.

I am not questioning the impact of Farsi literature and culture in central asia but it is obvious that he does.

You shouldn´t take sides in an ongoing debate between me and him because his one-dimensional world view is not what being Pashtun is about.

[tor_khan]

^ Mostafa Jan. I hope I wasn't taking sides. The first part I wrote in jest and was done with affection and the intention of being harmless.

I agree with your points and actually they were more directed at Manzareh.

Swat, you may know was an Princely state till 1969 with its own flag, boundaries, laws and tax raising powers. You basically crossed OUT of the state of Swat and INTO Pakistan. Remember British India and the dominions of Pakistan and India after 1947 were made up of princely states which ceded power to the centre either immediately or after a period of time. Swat kept its independent status for a long time.

[MostafaM]

^ Mostafa Jan. I hope I wasn't taking sides. The first part I wrote in jest and was done with affection and the intention of being harmless.

I agree with your points and actually they were more directed at Manzareh.

Swat, you may know was an Princely state till 1969 with its own flag, boundaries, laws and tax raising powers. You basically crossed OUT of the state of Swat and INTO Pakistan. Remember British India and the dominions of Pakistan and India after 1947 were made up of princely states which ceded power to the centre either immediately or after a period of time. Swat kept its independent status for a long time.

It´s ok, Tor Khan.
I am not offended and listening to an older brother´s advices doesn´t go against my ego.

I didn´t know that Swat was independent.
But I guess it had ceded foreign relations and defence to Pakistan from the beginning right?
Because I have never seen an independent state called Swat on any older map but I will definitly check that out.

[Manzareh]

Tor_Khan,

I show anti-Afghan sentiments because its people like Mostafa that have stolen the title of Afghan which is a race, and transformed it into a nationality to conform to persian pressure, soon calling ourselves Afghans will be the same as calling ourselves a farsiwaan, its ideal for persianised pashtuns like Mostafa and co because they have strong farsi ties, i dont have farsi ties so why should i jump in their boat? Im not against persians, but they stick together, each to their own and i believe Pashtuns have a right to have a country that has nothing to do with farsi or urdu, im not a coward to sacrifice my pashtun heratige to be a wanabe persian and celebrate nowroz just because it was imposed/influenced on my people years ago. People like Mostafa are blatent racists against punjabyaan, but are so naive that they think its perfectly fine to show how persianized they are, its ironic, These people would readily accept tehran to be the new capital and welcome it with open arms but no i will never stand by my race being infiltrated by persians.

[badmash_khel]

yes but we have our religious celeberations and why should we be celeberating persian new year with shia tint?
like is aid i celeberate it as well but i dont give it as much importance as eid ul fitr or adha.

Again for the millionth time its not ONLY the persian new year. When the Greeks referred to Afghanistan, Iran and central Asia they used to call the whole area as Persia since all these people were related. Thats where the confusion arises from. So kurds, pashtuns, pamiris and many other people living in these areas were reffered to as Persians which is clearly false. So called "Persian" new year is older than persia itself and celebrated by people throughout the region in one form or another. The sneaky persians have managed to push it as the "persian" new year in the UN because they want to say all the culture in the area belongs to them.
Afghanistan follows a Hijri Shamsi calendar which is Islamic calendar but based on the Solar Calendar rather than the Lunar Arabic Islamic calendar. Its just a measure of time and not that important. You can celebrate it or not, it doesn't make a difference but to say its only persian is being dishonest to Kurds and other groups who celebrate it.

there is actually evidence for this claim.
DNA investigation doesnt prove anything,who are you comapring our dna with?
in my family they didnt tell me as well matter of fact when someone is very bad they say "sam bani israle yee"LOL
the evidence is in Pashtuns,why was the pass called khyber?

lol, so DNA tests don't prove anything but oral mythologies do?haha
Thats what happens when you abandon Science for fairytales.

"sam bani israle yee"
This can mean that they read the Quran where the Bani Isreal are mentioned as rebillious poeple against God even though they were chosen to spread God's message. This proverb is likely after Quran and Islam came to pashtuns not before and pashtuns are clearly older than 1400 years.

I don't know why its called khyber pass. It could be a corrupted version of a previous name. if you have any evidence you can bring it.
In pashto, we say Esupzi not Yusufzi, this clearly shows that previous names were islamified after pashtuns accepted islam.

Why to Al beroni and Ibn Batuta refer to people living around kandahar and sulaiman mountains and surroundingn areas as hindus and budhists? Why didn't they notice the so called Bani Isreali traits of these people?

but avesta is not as old as hebrew people and their migration.
is it not possible that we took some words form sanskrit or avestan as we have taken from dari and hindi or even english?
How about our ancesters?do you think they lied and took on these tribalnames and stories?

What does hebrew people mean? do you mean isrealites? Whats you evidence to say Avestan is not older than hebrew?

by that logic that you are saying that we borrowed words from sanskrit and avestan, would mean our language would still be closer to hebrew but its not. Infact pashto is closer to Bactrian and some pamiri languages than to hebrew.

Our ancestors never lied, nor did they claim to be bani isreal.

so if your grandfathers never told you that you were isrealite then where do you get your stories from?

[tor_khan]

It´s ok, Tor Khan.
I am not offended and listening to an older brother´s advices doesn´t go against my ego.

I didn´t know that Swat was independent.
But I guess it had ceded foreign relations and defence to Pakistan from the beginning right?
Because I have never seen an independent state called Swat on any older map but I will definitly check that out.

Whilst Swat had independent status it had its own Armed Forces. I'll see if I can dig a paper out and share it with you.

[Manzareh]

Manzareh is a cool dude and above all he is my muslim brother.
unlike the biased fools aroudn here who push their extremely minority views on the majority.

Im not here to make friends but showgoverner i share alot of your views and i respect people that speak up for what they believe in. Atleast your a proper pashtun and my brother in Islam, not another watered down persianized pashtun

[Manzareh]

Tor Khan,

1. it´s not the first time that Manzareh, wherever the hell he comes from, has shown is anti-Afghan sentiments. I can remember his brainwashed pakified rantings when he asked if a small Afghan girl was Hindu just because he doesn´t know how common tattoos on the forhead or chin amongst Pashtun women were back in the old days.

Everything he can come with is Tajik here-Tajik there.....he should acknowledge that he maybe far away from being Pashtun, but his Pakistani identity is by far more persianized than he wants to acknowledge.

2. name calling is bad, true.
But I won´t let these ID-less boys who were born into British ghettoes question 5000 years of Pashtun/Afghan identity and history.

He should behave like a normal human being and people will deal with him that way.

3. Swat was independent untill 1969?
Hmm, since it´s part of KPK, former NWFP, I don´t think that´s accurate.

4. Farsi and Pashto are related languages and I never questioned that. I just questioned Manzarehs anti-Farsi/Dari rantings by showing him how deep Farsi culture has influenced him and whatever he stands for.

I am not questioning the impact of Farsi literature and culture in central asia but it is obvious that he does.

You shouldn´t take sides in an ongoing debate between me and him because his one-dimensional world view is not what being Pashtun is about.

I dont have pakified rantings its all in your head you suffer from selective thinking, i new she wasnt hindu i made a sarcastic comment as food for thought, as you can see in that post i was against Indic Hindu infiltrations, your more liberal with these things than i am. From these last few posts im certain you lack the ability to research into were these things came from and decipher whether they are truly pashtun or not.

Far away from a Pashtun? fool you dont even know how to spell your own name, you say the the word 'Mustafaa' in IRANIAN accent 'Mostafa' clearly it comes from parents but still your just a plastic pashtun, correct your own name before you talk about identity’s

Yes iv lived in ghettos, iv been lived in some rough areas on my own, im proud of it, its made me who i am and alhamdulilah im now in the same field that people are in which have had private education all their lives, i owe alot to Allah than to sacrifice my religion from some pagan ritual, i have more life experiences than some little geeky punk that had his nappy changed by momma till he was 10 years old, bet you wasnt even allowed to cross roads on your own till you were 18, you have all the characteristics of a spoilt little brat that moves his tongue quicker than his brain, do you know what happens to people that move their tongue quicker then their brain? 1 day youl find out.

[MostafaM]

I dont have pakified rantings its all in your head you suffer from selective thinking, i new she wasnt hindu i made a sarcastic comment as food for thought, as you can see in that post i was against Indic Hindu infiltrations, your more liberal with these things than i am. From these last few posts im certain you lack the ability to research into were these things came from and decipher whether they are truly pashtun or not.

Stop being backtracking and be once a man.
The discussion is clearly there on the forum. Everyone can read it. Your obsession with India, Hinduism and "RAW agents" is crystal clear.
You are allowed to think how the Hindu and Buddhist heritage of Swat where you come frome can be explained.

I understand you.
Feeling inferior, you need others to look down on just to feel better.

Far away from a Pashtun? fool you dont even know how to spell your own name, you say the the word 'Mustafaa' in IRANIAN accent 'Mostafa' clearly it comes from parents but still your just a plastic pashtun, correct your own name before you talk about identity’s

In Iran they say Mustafa, in Saudi they say Mustafa and in Chechnya they say Mustafa, too.

Example:

http://en.miu.ac.ir/

Just because German law enforcement agencies wrote my name with an O when we came to Germany, doesn´t mean that a crack head idiot has to flip logic upside down and blame it on "Iranians" and "plastic Pashtuns".

You sound like you feel inferior to Iranians.
Not even Afghans give a crap about Iranians like you do. Don´t wanna tell us what has caused your trauma?

Yes iv lived in ghettos, iv been lived in some rough areas on my own, im proud of it, its made me who i am and alhamdulilah im now in the same field that people are in which have had private education all their lives, i owe alot to Allah than to sacrifice my religion from some pagan ritual, i have more life experiences than some little geeky punk that had his nappy changed by momma till he was 10 years old, bet you wasnt even allowed to cross roads on your own till you were 18, you have all the characteristics of a spoilt little brat that moves his tongue quicker than his brain, do you know what happens to people that move their tongue quicker then their brain? 1 day youl find out.

When I wrote ghettos, I meant "ghettos" where people are deprived of knowledge and education. There are no placed in Europe like you mention you Wannabe-Compton-Gangster.

You are proud idiot.
You take pride in being a culturally deprived mental harlot.
I don´t have a problem with that, but if you spray your stupidity over this board, sure some people will respond to it. One of them will be me.

Stop day-dreaming about me and I might be like.
I don´t need to flatter myself with self-delusional crap about "having made it from Compton to Yale".

;-)