Islamic Dress

[ذو الفقار]

One of the groups of people that have maintained the medieval dress of old India are the Nihang Sikhs. They are easily identified by their blue gowns that are cut short mid-calf, which resembles very closely the so-called “Arabic“ Thawb.

[salman47]

Wasn't Sikhism made from Islam+Hinduism(+ i think Buddhism)?
Which explains why they wear such a dress.

[salman47]

Foreign means foreign to my religious-based civilization. Also, when I look at classic paintings of Persians and Mughals the people and royalty are depicted wearing a garment that resembles the "Arabic" Thawb.

Religious Based Civilization ?
Are you high dude?

[ذو الفقار]

Wasn't Sikhism made from Islam+Hinduism(+ i think Buddhism)?
Which explains why they wear such a dress.

Sikhism is influenced by aspects of Islam, but it is mostly an offshoot of Hinduism like Buddhism and Jainism. It falls in the category of Dharmic religions, not in our Abrahamic tradition. For example, they believe in reincarnation and cremate their dead.

I'm not sure if the dress of Nihang Sikhs is influenced by Islamic dress. If it is that would prove my point that such a dress is not alien to our part of the world.

[Manzareh]

Foreign means foreign to my religious-based civilization. Also, when I look at classic paintings of Persians and Mughals the people and royalty are depicted wearing a garment that resembles the "Arabic" Thawb.

Actually that type of garment is haram, nothing Islamic about it at all. It is forbidden for men to dress like women. I think you have a serious problem in differentiating between culture and religion.

On a side note:

The modern day formal suit was originated in Turkey around 1526 ace. Until this time the Europeans wore the traditional Roman unstitched garments that were wrapped around the body exposing hands and feet. Status was displayed by the amount of Jewelry one wore.

In the late 14th century the Turkish started crafting stitched clothing with designs and custom curves. The evolution continued and the present day style suit took shape in late 17th century which was greately welcome by the rest of the Europeans and mostly the British started actually wearing suits regularly. The British did not invent the suit, they adopted the suits invented by the Turkish.

Today suits are worn in every part of the world with few exceptions. Most renowned museums display the early suits with credt properly given to the Turkish for its inguinity.

You seem to think Islam is just an Eastern arabic/desi thing, You say Islamic and European as if Islam is opposed to Europe. Islam is meant for Europeans as much as it is meant for arab/desis/chinese.

[ذو الفقار]

Actually that type of garment is haram, nothing Islamic about it at all. It is forbidden for men to dress like women. I think you have a serious problem in differentiating between culture and religion.

You seem to think Islam is just an Eastern arabic/desi thing, You say Islamic and European as if Islam is opposed to Europe. Islam is meant for Europeans as much as it is meant for arab/desis/chinese.

An Arabic thawb is not a feminine dress.

It doesn’t matter who initiated European dress, I already mentioned that it is not suitable to the Islamic lifestyle of praying which involves bowing and prostrating. The Islamic dress is meant to be loose fitting and flowing. European dress has come to be defined as the dress of choice of irreligious, modern people who are not known for praying and worship. Islamic dress should easily distinguish Muslims from non-Muslims. A Muslim wearing a European suit and tie does not immediately stand out as a Muslim. If he tries to copy Zakir Naik and wear a skullcap and have his pants tailored above the ankles, he just comes off ridiculous. If you want to dress Islamic why not go the full nine yards, why make a fool out of yourself wearing a European business suit while your pants are clearly too short, your beard too long, wearing a skullcap? Either be Muslim or be modern/secular, don’t try to be smart.

Wearing a Thawb and Kufi is not just for Arabs, it was the tradition dress of Persians and Mughals too. It is also the dress of Muslims in Africa. It has come to be a universal Islamic dress which is unmistakable anywhere. If you look at Hollywood movies they also depict the Israelite Prophets and Jesus Christ in our kind of Islamic dress. It means there is something special about this dress. Why should we copy Europeans? Why shouldn’t we copy our Prophet?

[Manzareh]

An Arabic thawb is not a feminine dress.

It doesn’t matter who initiated European dress, I already mentioned that it is not suitable to the Islamic lifestyle of praying which involves bowing and prostrating. The Islamic dress is meant to be loose fitting and flowing. European dress has come to be defined as the dress of choice of irreligious, modern people who are not known for praying and worship. Islamic dress should easily distinguish Muslims from non-Muslims. A Muslim wearing a European suit and tie does not immediately stand out as a Muslim. If he tries to copy Zakir Naik and wear a skullcap and have his pants tailored above the ankles, he just comes off ridiculous. If you want to dress Islamic why not go the full nine yards, why make a fool out of yourself wearing a European business suit while your pants are clearly too short, your beard too long, wearing a skullcap? Either be Muslim or be modern/secular, don’t try to be smart.

Wearing a Thawb and Kufi is not just for Arabs, it was the tradition dress of Persians and Mughals too. It is also the dress of Muslims in Africa. It has come to be a universal Islamic dress which is unmistakable anywhere. If you look at Hollywood movies they also depict the Israelite Prophets and Jesus Christ in our kind of Islamic dress. It means there is something special about this dress. Why should we copy Europeans? Why shouldn’t we copy our Prophet?

Thing is, you have nothing more than personal 'opinions' based on your skewered logic. No evidence, reference or any backing in any of your analogies at all. This is why you come accross stupid no matter how smart you try to be perceived by pushing some nonsensical arguments.

There is no way that the prophet wore the outfit in the picture you posted. You say it is not feminine? Have you not seen Disney? There is no difference between Cinderella or the rest in the outfit. Be real. Be honest.

Your argument about wearing clothes to pray is also flawed. There is a time and place to pray. We prepare ourselves for each prayer, if that is abolition or changing clothes then so be it. We don't just randomly bend down into postures. Saying that, Arab clothing and thobes are so tight they can barely stretch out a stride let along anything else. Islamic clothing is loose and flowing clothing (from Hadith) who's to say one can't have a European suit which is loose and flowing? Open your mind abit, stop being naive. Islamic clothing is labelled by its traits not merely by what region of the world brown people are in and what they wear.

[ذو الفقار]

Thing is, you have nothing more than personal 'opinions' based on your skewered logic. No evidence, reference or any backing in any of your analogies at all. This is why you come accross stupid no matter how smart you try to be perceived by pushing some nonsensical arguments.

There is no way that the prophet wore the outfit in the picture you posted. You say it is not feminine? Have you not seen Disney? There is no difference between Cinderella or the rest in the outfit. Be real. Be honest.

Your argument about wearing clothes to pray is also flawed. There is a time and place to pray. We prepare ourselves for each prayer, if that is abolition or changing clothes then so be it. We don't just randomly bend down into postures. Saying that, Arab clothing and thobes are so tight they can barely stretch out a stride let along anything else. Islamic clothing is loose and flowing clothing (from Hadith) who's to say one can't have a European suit which is loose and flowing? Open your mind abit, stop being naive. Islamic clothing is labelled by its traits not merely by what region of the world brown people are in and what they wear.

عَنْ أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ، قَالَتْ كَانَ أَحَبَّ الثِّيَابِ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْقَمِيصُ
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin: The clothing which the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) liked best was the QameeS. (Sunan Abi Dawud)

عَنْ سَمُرَةَ بْنِ جُنْدَبٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم " الْبَسُوا الْبَيَاضَ فَإِنَّهَا أَطْهَرُ وَأَطْيَبُ وَكَفِّنُوا فِيهَا مَوْتَاكُمْ
Narrated Samurah bin Jundab: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Wear white, for indeed it is very pure and cleaner, and shroud your dead in it.'" (Tirmidhi)

عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم دَخَلَ يَوْمَ فَتْحِ مَكَّةَ وَعَلَيْهِ عِمَامَةٌ سَوْدَاءُ
Jabir b. Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) entered on the day of Victory of Mecca wearing a black turban on his head. (Sahih Muslim)

عَنْ أَنَسٍ، قَالَ كَانَ أَحَبَّ الثِّيَابِ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْحِبَرَةُ
Anas reported that the garment most liked by Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was the Hibara (striped cloak from Yemen) (Sahih Muslim)

As for the Mughal painting, it is only to show the shape of the Arabic Thawb, not the flowery design, although there is technically nothing wrong with having a design on the garment for men.

The Arabs also wear such ornate robes during special occassions



Obviously if you are a king or emperor you are going to wear more ornate clothing, but the point is the basic style and shape is the same as the Arabic thawb

[ذو الفقار]

Arab clothing and thobes are so tight they can barely stretch out a stride let along anything else.

You must buy ready-made thobes imported from Saudi Arabia or something. If your thobe is tight tell your tailor to make it loose. And thobe doesn't necessarily have to be the Khaleej style, there are many other styles, like the one favored by Egyptians and Sudanese called Galabiya, or the striped Dishdasha of Moroccans. Tell your tailor to make the bottom part of the thobe more open so you have better mobility, and lose a little weight too so it will be comfortable.

[salman47]

You are really brainless!
Many people in real life will definitely punch you square in the face(if you spit the same bull**** irl you spew here).
Always senseless and baseless arguments.

[ذو الفقار]

You are really brainless!
Many people in real life will definitely punch you square in the face(if you spit the same bull**** irl you spew here).
Always senseless and baseless arguments.

As usual nothing constructive to say, the sign of an uneducated or otherwise unintelligent person. When will you actually make a contribution to the discussions on this discussion board. Do you intend only to make sly remarks and personal attacks? I mean, since you can’t actually make any academic argument is it necessary to compensate for that by threatening people with violence like a typical illiterate Pathan?

[Manzareh]

عَنْ أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ، قَالَتْ كَانَ أَحَبَّ الثِّيَابِ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْقَمِيصُ
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin: The clothing which the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) liked best was the QameeS. (Sunan Abi Dawud)

عَنْ سَمُرَةَ بْنِ جُنْدَبٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم " الْبَسُوا الْبَيَاضَ فَإِنَّهَا أَطْهَرُ وَأَطْيَبُ وَكَفِّنُوا فِيهَا مَوْتَاكُمْ
Narrated Samurah bin Jundab: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Wear white, for indeed it is very pure and cleaner, and shroud your dead in it.'" (Tirmidhi)

عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم دَخَلَ يَوْمَ فَتْحِ مَكَّةَ وَعَلَيْهِ عِمَامَةٌ سَوْدَاءُ
Jabir b. Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) entered on the day of Victory of Mecca wearing a black turban on his head. (Sahih Muslim)

عَنْ أَنَسٍ، قَالَ كَانَ أَحَبَّ الثِّيَابِ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْحِبَرَةُ
Anas reported that the garment most liked by Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was the Hibara (striped cloak from Yemen) (Sahih Muslim)

As for the Mughal painting, it is only to show the shape of the Arabic Thawb, not the flowery design, although there is technically nothing wrong with having a design on the garment for men.

The Arabs also wear such ornate robes during special occassions



Obviously if you are a king or emperor you are going to wear more ornate clothing, but the point is the basic style and shape is the same as the Arabic thawb

Is that the best you got...Qamees? no point being so indulged in arabic culture if you dont know how vague the word Qamees is.

what else? Black turban, wearing white and cloak?.. those are all cultural, the prophet was an arab and not devoid of culture, he did not say to other nations leave your own culture and adopt arab. The quran says "and have made you nations and tribes that ye may recognise each other."

Like i said you have no real source do you. If you want to be an arab and insecure about your own culture thats fine, each to their own but everyone else is different. Case closed

Also i have never worn or will wear a modern thobe, its a sign of femininity to me and nothing more than a long skirt.

[Manzareh]

I mean, since you can’t actually make any academic argument is it necessary to compensate for that by threatening people with violence like a typical illiterate Pathan?

Net Enrollment Rate (NER) 2017

NER indicates that amongst the provinces, only Sindh remained stable with 48 percent while Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa declined from 64 percent to 59 percent and 54 percent to 53 percent. Balochistan has witnessed a significant decline from 39 percent in 2013-14 to 33 percent in 2015-16. The overall Gross Enrollment Rate at the Primary level for the age group at national/provincial levels 2015-16 was recorded at 87 percent as compared to 90 percent in 2013-14 showing a decline of 3 percent.

The data shows that literacy remains much higher in urban areas (74 percent) than in rural areas (49 percent) with male (81 percent) and female (68 percent) in urban areas. Province wise data suggests that Punjab and Sindh leads with 62 percent and 55 percent respectively followed by Khyber Pakhtunkhwa with 53 percent and Balochistan with 41 percent.

If you are so educated and literate then why are you unable to think out of the backwards stereo type taught to you by your shameless elders. You people are clearly no more 'academic' than you are a fake religious skirt wearing molvi that likes to talk about trading women.

Alot of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa is inhabited by nomadic and under privileged tribal people and STILL we have the same academic rate as you people which are funded and favoured by the government, now what is your punjabhai educated response to that?

[Samandri]

Foreign means foreign to my religious-based civilization. Also, when I look at classic paintings of Persians and Mughals the people and royalty are depicted wearing a garment that resembles the "Arabic" Thawb.

This is not Arab dress. Arabs did not and do not wear flowing skirts (semi-transparent in many cases) with payjamas. Manzerah is actually right, Mughal dress was unisexual. Your portrait is modern, let me share some contemporary portraits of Mughals with you ;

[ذو الفقار]

Is that the best you got...Qamees? no point being so indulged in arabic culture if you dont know how vague the word Qamees is.

The Qamees favored by the Prophet is the one with full sleeves and fully covers the body.

.Imām ʿAlī al-Qārī and ʿAllāmah Ibrāhῑm ibn Muḥammad al-Bājūrῑ (d. 1277/1860) both state that the Prophet’s صلى الله عليه وسلم preference for the qamῑṣ was due to its being better in covering the body, compared with the izār (lungi/waist-wrapper) or cloak. Also, it is cheaper and lighter on the body, and better in safeguarding the one wearing it from haughtiness and pride. It is obvious that the body would be covered most fully when the qamῑṣ is without slits to the sides. The performance of ṣalāh wearing only the qamῑṣ is possible when it is without slits and extends to the calves. Otherwise, the body will not be fully covered. A very important, and perhaps obvious, proof is that since the time of the Messenger of Allāh صلى الله عليه وسلم the qamῑṣ that extends to the calves (above the ankles) and is without slits to the sides has been the prime item of clothing of the Arabs.

The lower portion of his qamīṣ and izār extended to his mid-calves, without going beyond the ankles, so as to impede walking and cause difficulty, and render the wearer as if entrapped by it. Equally, it was not so short that the fleshy portion of his calf remained exposed and discomforted by heat and cold (Shams al-Dīn Abū ʿAbdillāh Muḥammad ibn Abī Bakr ibn Ayyūb ‘ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah’, Zād al-Maʿād fī Hadyi Khayri 20 ’l-ʿIbād, 6 vols. (Beirut: Muʾassat al-Risālah, 1433/2012), ed. Shuʿayb al-Arnaʾūṭ and ʿAbd al-Qādir al-Arnaʾūṭ, 4:217.)

Also i have never worn or will wear a modern thobe, its a sign of femininity to me and nothing more than a long skirt.

Then you are (God forbid) saying the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to wear a feminine garment? Not only Qamis, the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to wear the Izaar (waist wrap). Is that a skirt too? When you go for Hajj and don the Ihraam, two unstitched garments, one covering the upper part of the body and the other the lower part of the body, is the lower piece a "skirt"?