maata la jannata kabul khkukay dey..

[khushal]

you are a ****ing moron and there is no hope for you. if anything, you should consider the fact that you were being communicated with for that while as a compliment. but God, you are an idiot!
this conversation is over.

you yourself admitted he thinks janat is here, if one thinks janat is here, then he does not believe in it. he does not believe in the afterlife.

If I am wrong, then let us know.
[MENTION=1585]Shehbaz Khan[/MENTION], what do you think?

[khushal]

You agreed partly. Now let's move to any street of Pakhtuns for example in Charsaddah and see how many Scholars are found? and how many of them are misguiding people? Ghani never named anyone? Did he? No! he just picked the term Mullah and attacked the wrong teachings of the Mullahs

Chaghi wahi ajal Mullah ta aaori ka na aaori,
Tasha khawra na da Ghani sanga ba shi khaori

Getting the point?

But don't you think it is wrong to attack the term "mullah"
does it not make more sense to attack the individual who misguides
I know some ignorant mullahs and I know some very wise mullahs
How can you justify to attack and ridicule the wise ones for the misdeeds of the ignorant ones?

[khushal]

Takkar still IS a good singer and may God grant him a long life. He will be.

Khushaal, to understand someone like Ghani Khan, Hamza Baba, Khushal Khan and Rehman Baba isn't that much easy. Ghani is tellin you the 'weakness' of humans. Who wants to wait for the heaven? Ofcourse you may disagree as DZJ said but he has a point. Even in the same video did you listen to 'Che di was da bado na wi .. sa ba ta sa ba di kha wi?' Go on and listen to 'Che masti wi aw zwani wi aao janan wi aao dak jam' or 'Da adam da nazar tol day' or 'Badshahi da jahan sa kay zan la wali zyatay gham'? I can go on and go on.. Like listen to 'Lewaniya zmaka sa da .. Mullah koar da yao aashiq day .. Lewaniya sajda sa da .. Mullah zan khawri kawal di .. da mastai da gulo haar da yar khpo ki achawal di' go on and listen to 'Sir pa zmaka bandi kegda pa raz pohe da asman shi .. stargi storo da kra porta che pa shan pohe da jahan shi' by takkar as well

Have you read/heard Ajmal Khattak's 'Da lweyo lweyo qudratono Raba' which was sung by Gulzar Alam? Or another poem of Ajmal Khattak in which he asks about Jannat from different people and get different answers?

So don't just take word to word meaning give it some time and understanding. There is a video on youtube with the name 'Abaseen Yousufzai about Ghani Khan' watch that sometime, I would have posted the link but I use proxy so my links won't work for you.

Ajmal Khattak once said (I guess about himself but suits Ghani Khan as well)

Ay da watan khawri
Sta da zaro shundo dua za yam
Pa zegedo bandi che fakhar kawi
Hagha sangeen bachay da sta za yam
Za kho raraa yam raraagani kala
Pa zanzerono ki taralay shi sok
Za kho faulaad yam fauladona kala
Pa khwla mandalay aao khwaralay shi sok

I am not good at understanding poetry that is why I asked but I will listen to it when I go to my cousins house because he understands these things better and he could put some insight on it and thanks for the input.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Khushal, what is your meaning of Jannat? For example when we praise a beautiful place we say 'Swat is heaven on earth' or like 'da jannat ghwandi khkulay day' Now we aren't saying that Jannat is here we are satisfied with the sight and we love it. We are in peace with that. I gave you the example of Ajmal Khattak's poem Jannat in which he asks different people about Jannat and everyone gives a different answer

Ma wayel Mullah sahib jannat ba sa wi
Hagha pa geda laas waha wayel ye
taaza mewi aao _______ (I don't remember the word)

Khwa ki kitab ta yao talib nast o
Ma wayl che ta ba paki sa owayi
Da zulekha kitab ye band ghwandi ko
we che khaista hori aao shna khalona

Sheikh da tasbo ambel pa las walar o
Pa khpala gera ki ye las wahalo
Pa myanz e ra odangal wi dasi na da
khkuli ghelman aao jannati sarona

khwa ki yao staray seledo walar wo
ma wayl mazdora ta jannat pejani
da khpal tandi khwala e wocha krala
wayal ye che mara geda khwaga khobona

Read it

So is when Ghani Khan says, Lewaniya! Jannat sa day? .. Mullah sta jannat paiti da .. Aao zama jannat wisal day .. Yao khumar yawa masti da ..

Lewaniya! che monz sa day? .. Mullah zan khawri khkulawal di .. Da Janan kosi ta tlal di .. Ao da umeed arman kedal di

Lewaniya! sajda sa da .. Mullah zan khawri kawal di .. Da mastai da gulo haar da yar khpo ki achawal di

Now see the defination of Jannat/Munz/Sajda! Who can prove it better? Sajda sa ta wai? sajda ki insan sa kai? Zan khawri kawal di .. khpala nafi kawal di .. Getting the point?


Da Jannat bara ki hagha khday ta wai che zama pa jannat ki hoori na di pakar bal kay Khday sara mulaqat mi pakar day that the Almighty God promised nu Ghani Khan wayi 'Ma ta hoori ghelman ma sandawa bas day .. Pa wallah ka bi la ta mi pa cha kaar shi .. Sta da marga na yaregama pukhtun yam .. Kho mi tash jwandon aao khushi marg da qahr shi'

[Shehbaz Khan]

But don't you think it is wrong to attack the term "mullah"
does it not make more sense to attack the individual who misguides
I know some ignorant mullahs and I know some very wise mullahs
How can you justify to attack and ridicule the wise ones for the misdeeds of the ignorant ones?

We generalise people! We generalise the Pakistan Army here don't we? We generalize the Pakis here on this forum? I can go on and go on !
I know a few here in this city of Karachi who will say that giving polio drops to your kids is wrong it's haram and than I know Mufti Zarwali Khan Saib in Karachi too. But I myself know that Ghani isn't attacking people like Mufti Zarwali Khan saib.
So the Mullahs who don't mis-interpret Islam are not attacked by Ghani Khan.


__

Ghani Khan wayi che zama aao da Mullah khday ki da faraq day che Mullah warta khday wayi aao za warta Janan wayema ! Za che Allah sara meena kawama nu hagha bargain na day it's not business.. Ghani khday ta da husan pa laar zi pa meena zi pa mohabbat zi pa zor aao zyatay na zi .. Hagha da oor da yari na zi..

da dimagh zama chari na mani che da gul khaliq ba saqar kri jor
so khwagi ba pi zama kreki lagi cha che ma la nargas aao dilbar kra jor?

_

Stargo da janan ki kala kala da gul paro ki
Za ye har zay wenam sheikha jor ka jumat noro la

_

Just like he wrote in a poem with the title 'Baba ta da khat jawab ki'

Baba ta ma khafa kega .. Da di zang landi shamsher day!

[khushal]

I know we generalize but that does not make it right. Does Ghani Khan make that distinction in his poems. How do we know he is not talking about Mufti Zarwali Khan saib. Does he praise certain mullahs and condemn others.

That polio remark is a reaction to stories like this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20136654

Your putting the blame in the wrong place shehbaz Khana, it is not the mullahs fault for trying to protect people from corruption of greedy corporations(even though they are doing it the wrong way), blame the greedy corporations. Ask Ghani Khan to write some poetry about greedy corporations in collusion with the state and how they are destroying society. What is more dangerous shehbaza, the ignorance of the mullah or the corruption of the state?

[khushal]

Khushal, what is your meaning of Jannat? For example when we praise a beautiful place we say 'Swat is heaven on earth' or like 'da jannat ghwandi khkulay day' Now we aren't saying that Jannat is here we are satisfied with the sight and we love it. We are in peace with that. I gave you the example of Ajmal Khattak's poem Jannat in which he asks different people about Jannat and everyone gives a different answer

Ma wayel Mullah sahib jannat ba sa wi
Hagha pa geda laas waha wayel ye
taaza mewi aao _______ (I don't remember the word)

Khwa ki kitab ta yao talib nast o
Ma wayl che ta ba paki sa owayi
Da zulekha kitab ye band ghwandi ko
we che khaista hori aao shna khalona

Sheikh da tasbo ambel pa las walar o
Pa khpala gera ki ye las wahalo
Pa myanz e ra odangal wi dasi na da
khkuli ghelman aao jannati sarona

khwa ki yao staray seledo walar wo
ma wayl mazdora ta jannat pejani
da khpal tandi khwala e wocha krala
wayal ye che mara geda khwaga khobona

Read it

So is when Ghani Khan says, Lewaniya! Jannat sa day? .. Mullah sta jannat paiti da .. Aao zama jannat wisal day .. Yao khumar yawa masti da ..

Lewaniya! che monz sa day? .. Mullah zan khawri khkulawal di .. Da Janan kosi ta tlal di .. Ao da umeed arman kedal di

Lewaniya! sajda sa da .. Mullah zan khawri kawal di .. Da mastai da gulo haar da yar khpo ki achawal di

Now see the defination of Jannat/Munz/Sajda! Who can prove it better? Sajda sa ta wai? sajda ki insan sa kai? Zan khawri kawal di .. khpala nafi kawal di .. Getting the point?


Da Jannat bara ki hagha khday ta wai che zama pa jannat ki hoori na di pakar bal kay Khday sara mulaqat mi pakar day that the Almighty God promised nu Ghani Khan wayi 'Ma ta hoori ghelman ma sandawa bas day .. Pa wallah ka bi la ta mi pa cha kaar shi .. Sta da marga na yaregama pukhtun yam .. Kho mi tash jwandon aao khushi marg da qahr shi'

I understand the metaphor that is why I mentioned to Shamlawar that it may not be meant literally in haroon pacha song.

[Shehbaz Khan]

I know we generalize but that does not make it right. Does Ghani Khan make that distinction in his poems. How do we know he is not talking about Mufti Zarwali Khan saib. Does he praise certain mullahs and condemn others.

That polio remark is a reaction to stories like this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20136654

Your putting the blame in the wrong place shehbaz Khana, it is not the mullahs fault for trying to protect people from corruption of greedy corporations(even though they are doing it the wrong way), blame the greedy corporations. Ask Ghani Khan to write some poetry about greedy corporations in collusion with the state and how they are destroying society. What is more dangerous shehbaza, the ignorance of the mullah or the corruption of the state?

No he don't praise Mullahs! That's it! He is very straight in the case! If a Mullah is not doing wrong interpretation of the religion he must not feel threathened by Ghani Khan.

Metrowil is a Pakhtun majority area near Banaras one I went there to meet a college friend and the Mullah saib was saying that Polio drops are a conspiracy of Jews and Chrisitians and it's haram. We should avoid it in the Jumma Khutba. I met around 30 people after that and asked them their opinion and 90% said we will do as Mullah saib asked us.

Now coming to the other point you mentioned Ghani also hits the 'Khan' of the kali for his injustice towards the people.

[Yousafzai Pakhtun]

The most special quality of Poetry is that everybody takes his/her own meaning from it according to one's own taste and approach and especially when the poet is like Ghani Khan and Juan Alia. So Shamlawar is extracting a meaning from ghani Khan's poetry that suits his mindset and his taste,and so does Khushal. One can explain a verse in different ways. I will take you example of Qalandar Momand when he said :

Yaara Qalandar ta duaganey kra
oss gani pukhto ke ghazal charta de

(He wrote this verse when there was Zia's Martial Law and being a worker of NAP he was sent behind the bars. No body among the popular poets of Pakhtunkhwa were ready to criticize Zia's regime even in their verses. Qalandar took the initiative and fully criticized the cruelities of the then govt. and by this verse he meant that "it is only Qalandar who is writing the true ghazals while others are either silent or are only praising beauty")

But later on when Hamza baba wrote :

Laa kho takhayul da hamza tat na dey
Sok wayi pukhto ke ghazal charta dey

though both Hamza and Qalandar were good friends and it was Qalandar who wrote preface on Hamza baba's poetry "Ghazawaney" but most of the poets and critics took it as some sort of enemity between the two towering personalities and no body understood the true meaning of Qalandar saib verse.

[Yousafzai Pakhtun]

you yourself admitted he thinks janat is here, if one thinks janat is here, then he does not believe in it. he does not believe in the afterlife.

If I am wrong, then let us know.
[MENTION=1585]Shehbaz Khan[/MENTION], what do you think?

So according to you there is only one meaning of the word "Jannat" i.e the holy paradise? The Urdudan's say "Billi ko khaab mein bhi chechray hi nazar aatay hain" same is the case with you. Taso ta bas jaanat au hoorey har zai khkaari

[Shehbaz Khan]

Taso ta bas jaanat au hoorey har zai khkaari

Aao Ghani Khan wayi

Ma ta hoori ghelman ma sandawa bas day ..
Pa wallah ki be la ta mi pa cha kaar shi

Sta da marga na yaregama pukhtun yam
Kho mi tash jwandon aao stari marg ta qahr shi

__

Hagha ta rata yao zal da cha shair wayelay o che

Jwand ka tash ferni satal wi da kho spay hum shi kawalay
Jwand ka tash bachi raoral wi da kho ghway hum shi kawalay

The poet was Ghani Khan I guess?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Deen in Arabic is derived from dain. In essence, deen is a contract. Between Allah and his creation, between creation among one another. The latter is like a social contract. In fact contractarian political philosophy borrows from monotheistic religious tradition.

Ghani Khan and Sufis who claim they do not have a contract with Allah but rather they have a love relationship are obviously misguided. They are inventing a relationship with Allah.

We only have a legislated relationship with Allah. We cannot start a relationship with Allah based on our own desires.

The whole concept of uboodiyyah is alien to Ghani Khan and the sufis.

[ډګروال]

ghani khans problem is not with Mullah but Islam.
He is talking trash about Mullah because Mullah tells him to think about his afterlife and dont drink alcohol and be a sinner.

offcourse some apologists over here will try their best to say that no actually he means such and such.

Mullah bechara is used as a codework for Islam because they wont be able to talk such trahs directly about Islam.

its also funny how non of these apologists explained his song and who is the woman he is singing about and sayig that her one word is more than "your 40000 books"(holy books)

no wonder these ANP wallas or pashtun nationalists are corrupt to the bone, thanks to manipulators such as ghani.

@shehbaz that song da loyo loyo qudrathuna raba cant be compared to the pathetic ghani khan poetry. that song is actually the opposite.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Deen in Arabic is derived from dain. In essence, deen is a contract. Between Allah and his creation, between creation among one another. The latter is like a social contract. In fact contractarian political philosophy borrows from monotheistic religious tradition.

Ghani Khan and Sufis who claim they do not have a contract with Allah but rather they have a love relationship are obviously misguided. They are inventing a relationship with Allah.

We only have a legislated relationship with Allah. We cannot start a relationship with Allah based on our own desires.

The whole concept of uboodiyyah is alien to Ghani Khan and the sufis.

What's the relationship between man and God is highly debatable. But Ghani simply doesn't follow him for white hoors and rivers of wine. You need a mosque to concentrate he doesn't.

Stargo da janan ki kala kala da gul paro ki
Za ye har zay wenam shekha jor ka jumat noro la!

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

What's the relationship between man and God is highly debatable.

Only for those who disbelieve in Qur'an sunnah.

But Ghani simply doesn't follow him for white hoors and rivers of wine. You need a mosque to concentrate he doesn't.

He is a kafir. He was a kafir, and nobody cares what a kafir alcoholic who writes vulgar poetry have to say about his imaginary relationship with God.