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Originally posted by Aria2013
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Yet the US won't vacate wardak, hand over bagram, release prisoners from gitmo(international law lolllll), put an end to night raids, funding local militias and other such examples of the US blatantly ignoring the orders of the government of afghanistan. you know the government, the one thats supposed to be sovereign.There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
Sayyid Qutb -
Unbelievable. In the latest brazen display of shamlessness, CENTCOM has found the nerve to attempt establishing moral high ground in the conversation. Further, this individual, an agent of the United States military machine, has the nerve to claim "bullying". What has this guy been smoking?? I may need some after reading that crap.Originally posted by Aria2013 View PostI don't make monkeys, I just train them.Comment
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I'm not really a fan of feel-good propaganda but thanks for the recommendation. Admittedly, I spent probably half an hour, earlier tonight, reading that page. Likewise, I'm also an avid observer of Islamic Emirate's media and propaganda. I hate to admit this but I get the feeling some of their propaganda may have a more solid foundation in reality than CENTCOM Dari's feel-good reel. It could be that they're simply not as intellectually keen and adept at creating polished propaganda pieces but it may also be that they know the limitations of what the common Afghan will and will not consume in the propaganda department. My advice - tone it down a notch.Originally posted by Aria2013 View PostI don't make monkeys, I just train them.Comment
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Originally posted by Aria2013 View Post
You are absolutely side stepping we asked you something in context to a specific incidence with America as the perpetrator; you talked about some decision to attack another country which had nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Of course I'm set on discrediting what you say and YOU MAKE that job easy for me by evading and diverting away from the subject.
Which "views" am I enforcing? I have no pronounced any views on you; all I'm enforcing here is your INTELLECTUAL HONESTY which you have failed to do. Please don't play the victim card here.
Fair enough since you won't address questions you were asked; then we shall petition banning you again. Enjoy being blocked from the narrative![QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.Comment
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What a childish approach. Why you expect things beyond the reach or comprehension capability of another member? Why you want see things which you wish to be.
Aria is doing what he/she can do or should do. He represents an organization and may have some restrictions, limitations or some scope for his work. His/her presence here is an asset for the forums. Instead of talking amongst few screen players we have some one from the real world representing an important ground player, the US.
Also as I earlier requested Arias please dedicate some more time and instead of engaging with some one by exchanging personal remarks and chit chat please share some useful intellectual stuff, some news we cannot get from usual sources about development, human rights, education , health etc in Afghanistan and US contributions in this regard.
Tell us some thing from the first hand experience you have and from the office which you represent some good news about the post NATO Afghanistan and other issues.
Also I posted some material in another thread about the need of public diplomacy on part of US but I did not receive any response.Comment
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Then if he can't respond except in according to the interests of his organization; then he/she has come here to propose propaganda and on that grounds we don't need this forum to be a platform for its propaganda. I feel the exact same way for people who propose Taliban propaganda too.
What is childish is to accept such a thing so gullibly instead of using critical thinking. This blind faith approach is the core of ignorance.
We offered Aria2013 every opportunity to vindicate the reputationof his organization and he/she instead chose to disregard our requests. THe Mature and Grown up response is to put an end to such disregard for ethics.[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.Comment
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Badlun, thank you for your comment and recognizing the importance of progress in education, human rights, and development in Afghanistan, especially since 2001 that needs to be highlighted. Unfortunately this type of information often does not get much coverage in mainstream media leaving a gap for conspiracy theorists to come up with their own spin on facts. One of the reasons I am here is to correct the misinformation or lack of information. And please know that everything we say here is based on and backed by facts. And I also agree with you that relentless, unproductive, back and forth chatter serves no one any good. Perhaps we can start a new thread where we can talk about the gains and achievements and what we can do moving forward. And I will be more than happy to contribute as much as I can. You also asked about our office here and we can talk about that as well, but I do think it should be in a new thread all together. In terms of time, I am limited but I will do my best to be here as often as I can. In the meantime I will take a look at the new thread you have started on the need of public diplomacy. Thanks again.Originally posted by Badlun View Post
Aria2013
DET-CENTCOMComment
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Aria,Originally posted by Aria2013 View Post
I have some basic questions that I think a military afficionado like yourself might be able to help out with and I encourage a serious heart felt back and forth:
1) Why wont CENTCOM instead work on democratizing, occupying, and civilizing Pakistan? If the general premise that was given for the Afghan invasion and occupation was that a government sympathetic to Bin Ladin had to be done away with to avoid safe havens (i.e. our own national security goal) - has Pakistan with its various safe havens not met that criteria at this point? Moreover, when it comes to the other premise of human rights etc, once again why not utilize military force to change Pakistani society since Pakistan also meets that criteria?
2) What are your thoughts on the CIA's analysis and stated documentation that US interventionalism world round has sparked many of the qualms and attacks that have occurred? For instance, the CIA writes about blowback in the context of our government backing the brutal totalitarian Shah of Iran who gave way to the Ayatollahs due to the concept of blowback. Michael Scheuer head of Alec Station wrote his magna opus, Imperial Hubris documenting open source evidences to this effect.
A very recent example, perhaps in our own hemisphere of such actions is as follows:
In Guatamela, we backed the dictator Jose Effron Rios Montt who in turn began a campaign of brutalization and extermination of the indigenous peoples:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...os-montt-trial
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...b49_story.html
Based on the aforementioned, can you enlighten us as to why, with such a track record:
eg. the removal of Mossadegh by force in Iran, the removal of Allende by coup, the backing of Batista in Cuba, the initial buttressing of Saddam in Iraq, the backing of Mubarak and his predecessor in Egypt, Saudi Royals, now Maliki etc
The average Afghan, seeing this track record might wonder how and why Karzai is different and why his team, that you have a stake in, is better for indigenous peoples in the long run when the former dictators also infused capitalism with some degree of success coupled to dictatorial and corrupt leadership and ended up doing much wrong in the long term for their people (e.g. once again refer to Guatamala example above).
3) Regarding the successes of democracy and capitalism and what not... one of our closest allies is Saudi Arabia, a dictatorial monarchy nation state with many human rights abuses on its record. However, our military has friendly ties with Saudi and in fact buttressed and observed their troops in Bahrain suppressing democratic revolt. So with that in mind, how does CENTCOM reconcile its conflicing narrative regarding attempts to democratize and secularize Afghanistan by force but yet maintaining strong ties of friendship with Saudi Arabia? Should we not be invading and occupying Saudi Arabia for A) toppling its monarchy B) infusing the country with womens rights and C) ensuring human rights are observed?
4) The Brits also had a record of nation building projects and expressing with Kiplingesque glee about how it was civilizing the far reaching corners of the earth... yet nearly half a century after the demise of that empire we see problems world round in hot zones that were created because the British generally supplemented nation building with machinations and designs that altered regional balances in favor of perpetual war when they drew the lines that demarcated nation states. In Iraq, with the rise of Maliki and his suppression of free speech in a manner similar to that of Saddam Hussein - and the current conflageration in Libya can you address any concerns that the track record of the US is going along a british trajectory?"2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quoteComment
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5) Also Aria, refer to my original post:
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<A href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/03/17/134631649/report-u-s-creates-fake-online-identities-to-counter-enemy-propaganda" target=_blank>Report: U.S. Creates Fake Online Identities To Counter 'Enemy Propaganda' : The Two-Way : NPR
The U.S. Military hired a California company to create software that allows one person to control up to 10 different and sophisticated fake online personas.
The Guardian reported today that United States Central Command (Centcom) doesn't plan to use the program domestically. Instead, the paper reports quoting Bill Speaks, Centcom spokesman, the military wants to use it in the Middle East and Asia to "counter violent extremist and enemy propaganda outside the US."
The Guardian adds:
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media | Technology | The Guardian
The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities – known to users of social media as "sock puppets" – could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.
The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries".
Centcom spokesman Commander Bill Speaks said: "The technology supports classified blogging activities on foreign-language websites to enable Centcom to counter violent extremist and enemy propaganda outside the US."
He said none of the interventions would be in English, as it would be unlawful to "address US audiences" with such technology, and any English-language use of social media by Centcom was always clearly attributed. The languages in which the interventions are conducted include Arabic, Farsi, Urdu and Pashto.
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NPR and the Gaurdian are good sources and PF experienced bot infiltration in the form a certain Noorzai Jehani about a year ago. So my fifth question is: Why does such subterfuge have to be used to convince people and/or get the message out? Its very similar to the CIA Red Cell Memo that Assange released showing that sympathy for womens rights were going to be used to try and keep a luke warn Europe embedded in Afghanistan. That is, why does the plight of human beings and the interaction of human beings, on a forum based predominantly in the US of all places have to be politicized in such a fashion for propaganda purposes?
6) Can you make an argument justifying the budgetary committments CENTCOM makes so that someone such as yourself is a part of the military industrical complexes machinary and uses their time to try and "spread the Pax Americana gospel" here? In a forum that is not based in Afghanistan (80% of the country of Afghanistan's population is the rural masses who dont have access to PF) and is not really connected to winning the hearts and minds that matter - isnt it a bit unethical for CENTCOM to pay people and develop programs that get billed to the taxpayer to internet surf and post in such a context?
For instance, the taxpayer might be pursuaded if a smart plan was in place: e.g. CENTCOM says: Hey most Afghans in the rural area dont even TVs, they have radios, we will utilize radio stations and messages in the rural areas in a targeted fashion and use television in urban areas on teh ground in the areas that we are fighting in that also affect our national security. This will diminish cost and have a targeted high yield effect.
But I would say its a bit unethical to justify a bloated budget for low impact project work like this right?"2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quoteComment
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I've been doing a bit of research of my own, not easy but I have uncovered some potential reasons for CENTCOM's recent rounds at PF. Apparently, Emirate operatives have been attempting to establish a presence within English language based diaspora websites. It's really a non-issue as they seem to be banned almost immediately and the vast majority of diaspora are less than friendly towards Taliban ideology. But in any case, the fact that they're out there attempting to make connections, mingle among the people and establish connections with the diaspora is probably enough to raise their opponent's eyebrows. Actually, I was invited by some random Talib on Facebook to join a Pashto language community that was more or less just the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan's news reel with a boat load of Taliban and associated types on there commenting on events and operations. So their side is definitely active in cyberspace lately. Also, those people will ACTUALLY converse and respond with common people. I should know as I proposed a question to the individual sending me the invite, I think I frustrated him but still received a response. Cause and effect - some of this may be why CENTCOM is active again and is changing strategy, attempting to actually converse and respond with us.I don't make monkeys, I just train them.Comment
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Quite likely for similar reasons stated above. The fear of diaspora being recruited online to return to Afghanistan to fight alongside or serve in any capacity with Taliban. This apparently happens quite frequently, at least with diaspora in England. You may recall when British soldiers stationed in Helmand intercepted radio transmissions of individuals speaking in Pashto then occasionally lapsing into English who spoke in distinct regional British accents when conversing in English. Regarding this topic you may want to take a look at this article from The Guardian dated 2010. The Taliban troop with an east London cab driver in its ranks | World news | The GuardianOriginally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
Some interesting quotes from the article:
"We were asked to wait for the district chief in the house of a burly, bearded man who spoke passable English with a hint of a London accent. For most of the time he lived in east London, he said, but he came to Afghanistan for three months of the year to fight. He was a mullah and had the rank of a mid-level Taliban commander."
"I work as a minicab driver there," he said. "I make good money, you know. But these people are my friends and my family and it's my duty to come to fight the jihad with them.
"There are many people like me in London," he added. "We collect money for the jihad all year and come and fight if we can."
Undoubtedly, at least one portion of CENTCOM's duties are ensuring that those who have already chosen a side, as the men in the article have, do not have an easy road ahead of them in recruiting others in the West to return to Afghanistan periodically and fight with them.I don't make monkeys, I just train them.Comment
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Aria wants dialogue but so far he hasn't answered any real questions. I know this is probably beyond the scope of his capabilities and job duties, like talking to afghans who aren't complete idiots.There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
Sayyid QutbComment
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I've been asked by multiple members to chime in here, and the following is my opinion:
I think if Aria is willing to answer the queries of our respected members, and participate like a real/regular member, then we shouldn't have a problem. He too can be a member of our community, whether he is liked or not is a matter of personal preference, and we do not take an official stance on such things. We are an open community willing to embrace educated people of all sides. With the aforementioned being said, If however, it ends up being a spam-bot(like previous models)then we might have to conduct a Loya-Jirga like we did before to decide its fate. BarakzaiAbdali generally has the role of conducting such meetings, so I'll leave the ball in his court.
We welcome all new members, since our goal is to learn from others, and make informed decisions. However, we condemn spammers. Having someone like Aria can be very fruitful for our discussions, since a debate between Aria and BarakzaiAbdali might be followed by thousands around the world. Witnessing them both whip out their intellectual swords can result in knowledge being spread around. However, I want to emphasize that just because we are the world's largest Afghan/Pashtun community does not mean we will tolerate robot-like figures who are spamming the board. Each side can dispatch their representatives, and who knows, PF could serve as a ground for discussions. Evading questions, and only popping in your nose when you are bored is considered a troll, so let's try to avoid that. I recognize that our Engineer and doctors might ask tough questions to Aria, but we nonetheless expect answers, even if you don't have an answer.
To those wondering why Centcom is here to begin with? I can offer one perspective of the story, and that is statistics. PF, on a good or bad day, witnesses anywhere from 5K-6K visitors, and some days 10K within a 24 hour time frame. Most of those users are new users, who about ~60-70 percent are returning users. The trend, since the boards inception on the inter-webs has been upwards. Month 1 in 2010, we had 300 visitors, Month 2, 400, and now several years later, the trend just keeps on increasing. With 30,000 threads, most indexed, and half a million posts, the most strangest search queries related to Pashtuns can make you land on PF. The probability of someone Googling the term Pashtun(try it, we are on the first page), and landing on PF, is incredibly high, which makes this board an attractive location for a campaign of obvious sources. So let's not act 'surprised' when we see these official folks roaming around here. I've received e-mails from Pakistani politicians(when a member burns them in a thread)to which I generally respond to asking them to join to defend their stance. We have had members from both GOP and GOA along with critics like Dr.Daud Miraki. I suppose CENTCOM also want a bit of the limelight.
Best,Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.
A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai
For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."
The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!
-Ferishta, 1560–1620Comment
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