Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wikipedia Wars on Pashtun Topics

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wikipedia Wars on Pashtun Topics

    written by PF member Omar Usman, who hails from our brother website, Khyber.org

    Publishing Date: Monday, August 27 2012

    When we want to find anything, we jump to google and make a search. From the available options, we opt to go for wikipedia because they are written in an easy to understand form. Recently, while looking up an article on Amir Kror Suri, I noticed an edit war. Edit war's are normal, and are usually sorted through mediations and a set of rules. However, this was not the first time I have witnessed an edit war on Pashtun pages.

    Vandalism on wikipedia is normal. They are treated by editors who revert the page back to an original state. But the edit wars on Pashtun pages are not just by vandals, there are a few persistent and expert Tajik editors who are well versed in wikipedia rules and terminology. All you have to do is go to the Talk page and you will see Tajik and other Iranian origin editors who raise disputes on virtually each and every point. There are disputes from literary books, writers, all the way to famous personalities.

    The editors are able to quote references on which they base their objections. Their references are usually written with a bias themselves, and are predominantly Tajik authors, or scholars of Iranic Studies who habitually put a question mark on any Pashtun source or writer. Their aim is to sabotage the article such that eventually it is locked and no further edits are possible. Either this, or let the article continue on condition that it is inclined towards their bias. Very few of them raise genuine objections. Perhaps I it may be too far-fetched to make this claim, but it does seem like a conspiracy to malign everything that has to do with Pashtuns. The article on Amir Kror at hand had the objection that since a reference was not available on the Internet, it was not acceptable.

    A neutral approach would require the presence of the claim, as well as its refutation based on objections from sources, and then leave the rest to the reader. A reader, after all does not go to a wikipedia to form an opinion. He goes to get information. So the opinion-making must be left to the user.

    Secondly, Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and cannot be perfect. Even two established encyclopeadia's can contradict on a single point. Some historical claims can never be verified because contradictory claims exist in sources. The usual approach is to give weight-age to sources that have been written in the same time period as that of the claim. But still, that is easier said than done. With pashto history, this is a serious problem. Our history has seldom been documented by Pashtuns, and admittedly, the few available sources are not exactly 'scientific' in nature. There is a shortage of citations, and there is too much emphasis on prose, arts and religion. Of course, Pashtun bias is also evident in some writings.

    Subsequently, our history has always been documented by outsiders, be it the Moghuls and Arabs, British, or the current day universities and study centers that are churning up work at a remarkable pace. Bias is natural and evident in all. But it would be very difficult for a normal reader to identify it. This leads to many stereotypes.

    As a solution, we can take up the task of becoming wikipedia warriors ourselves and launch an editing campaign of a similar manner. But in current circumstances, this will do more harm than good. What needs to be done can be done by the various universities operating in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Institutes with a focus on Pashtun and Afghan studies need to be established. A few generalized institutes are already doing the same thing; for instance Area Study Center in Peshawar, and Academies of Pashto in Kabul and Peshawar. They have done some extensive research work, but it is not enough. They must become more open and accessible by extending their research work to the European and western audiences, using the internet of course. The website of Area Study Centre and other similar institutes leave much to desire for. Finding even the contact details of the institute can be a formidable task.

    Much of the wealth these institutes possess are in their libraries. I have seen many physical manuscripts of some PhD thesis with some remarkable research. But I cannot find even a citation for them on the Internet, let alone a downloadable copy. Libraries must be strengthened, and their wealth should be digitized and made available on the Internet without any subscription or charges. Partnerships can be made with Google, or other foreign universities with similar interests. A tremendous example is the on-going digitization of the Kabul University library, most of which has already come online, although not easily searchable.

    A second problem is that of mindset. Most of us want to become doctors and engineers because of financial interests. If we can't become any of that, we prefer to start a businesses for the same financial reasons. This is valid and I understand the situation of many families and students as I myself belong to an engineering field. But it can change. Many students are nowadays moving towards media and business studies because these areas have also developed financial attraction. Good policies can achieve a similar turn-around in our badly suffering literary and history sectors.

    The third approach is the access of 'private' libraries. There exist some families and individuals who are the proud owner of private libraries. Some of these libraries contain thousands of books and records, maps, and other material. It was in a similar private library, that Abdul Hai Habibi found the oldest recorded manuscript written in Pashto in the year 1214 (btw, this has also been made controversial by our neighbours).

    Sadly, access to these libraries is only possible to the immediate members of the family; most of whom are oblivious to the benefits of this treasure. These private librarians can easily be contacted, and I am sure their owners would be more than willing to cooperate in digitization of the rare books and records in their possession.

    Once the institutes and government can do their part, Wikipedia warriors are just a click away.

    Wikipedia Wars on Pashtun Topics
    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

  • #2
    I was thinking about this topic earlier and had an idea
    But its somethig that is very extensive and requires alot of reading
    My dad has a library i was thinking if someone opens a website that cannot be edited by just a random jane doe, that will change the problem of these people posting false things about pashtuns

    If we ourselves change things and post articles online these things would not be a problem. Most pashtuns that are in the field of technology are not interested in our history which is a shame because a random tajik spends a load of time to make us look bad but we dont have time to fix a tiny problem as such
    I will let my brother know of this and hopefully if he has time we can do that
    If a wedsite is viewed and is very popular people will eventually stop going to wiki for answers regarding our culture and customs

    Comment


    • #3
      ^ Well said.
      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

      Comment


      • #4
        Dude I'm telling you after reading a few articles on Afghanistan provinces a lot of them Tajiks edit and say how they had something do with the place or war. A big proof is that "Tajik troll caught on Wikipedia" article I posted a few months back. Anyways hope wiki does something about these trolls.
        Last edited by Kushan Prince; 01-15-2013, 02:54 AM.
        "Revenge is a dish best served cold".

        -Old Pashtun proverb




        "My Pashtun Pride i will not hide!"

        Comment


        • #5
          For a while I tried my best to keep some of the facts straight in Wikipedia and tried my best to follow all the rules and make sure not to get ban, like most other hot headed Pashtun editors.

          The writer explains it very well though. We do need more credible and verifiable sources to solve this issue in Wikipedia.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's not easy to keep up with 'wiki wars'. I know a friend of mine has been updating Syed Jamaluddin Afghani's page on wiki and he's been in the war with some Irani guy for the past few years. It's not an easy job providing right information that has not been on any website, so it's hard to make reference, especially when the Afghan or Pashto books are not even listed in Amazon. I know it's hard to compete but I have started Afghanwiki.com solely because the information on wikipedia is flawed and bias for whatever the reasons are.

            You guys are welcome to post anything Afghanistan related to Afghan Wiki.
            P.S. Once it's in Afghan wiki you can edit the wikipedia post with reference to Afghanwiki. I've done that and it works. I'm not marketing Afghan Wiki for any other reason but to bring quality and right content on Afghanistan. So far it seems like a one man job but if I could have 2 or 3 people from here who can do their research and write something brief will certainly make an Afghan source on the internet more reliable than wikipedia.
            AfghanWiki.com | Techfried.net

            Comment


            • #7
              The only problem with your approach is the blatant Afghan in your domain name, which will make others believe we are biased on that page(think of Iran Wiki). Purchase Wikipedia.af, or a related domain, connect the two and drive up the SEO campagin for Wikipedia.Af, that way at first sight, people won't feel like it's propaganda.

              My observation to you my brother. I can help you support, or launch it, if need be.


              Best,
              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ghorzang View Post
                For a while I tried my best to keep some of the facts straight in Wikipedia and tried my best to follow all the rules and make sure not to get ban, like most other hot headed Pashtun editors.

                The writer explains it very well though. We do need more credible and verifiable sources to solve this issue in Wikipedia.
                I see a ton of 'we do need to fix it' but no execution methods. Ghorzang, I know you are a web junkie just like myself and Aryob, what can we do to prevent this?
                Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                Comment


                • #9
                  isnt khyber.org doing the same to Ghilzai Pashtuns?

                  anyway

                  i dont know why you guys so much care about the dead while not about the living.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ډګروال View Post
                    isnt khyber.org doing the same to Ghilzai Pashtuns?

                    anyway

                    i dont know why you guys so much care about the dead while not about the living.
                    Malgara, don't insult Khyber.org, they have been serving Pashtuns probably before you were even able to type on a keyboard. Don't derail this thread please. Post your recommendation on how to improve it, we can leave the philosophy for a different thread.

                    Best,
                    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                      Malgara, don't insult Khyber.org, they have been serving Pashtuns probably before you were even able to type on a keyboard. Don't derail this thread please. Post your recommendation on how to improve it, we can leave the philosophy for a different thread.

                      Best,
                      no insult intended but we should dicuss anyone who stabs us.
                      neither is it my intention to derail this thread.
                      it hurts me seeing such things happening and i checked sayed jamuldin's page on wiki ,it was extremely deformed and he was represented as a shia iranian.
                      when i saw the page of Amir Kror and that tajik guy chatting,it reminded me of non other than kabulzada.


                      this is most likely the guy responsible for most of anti pashtun online activities.
                      ironically he himself looks like a Pashtun

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ډګروال View Post
                        no insult intended but we should dicuss anyone who stabs us.
                        neither is it my intention to derail this thread.
                        it hurts me seeing such things happening and i checked sayed jamuldin's page on wiki ,it was extremely deformed and he was represented as a shia iranian.
                        when i saw the page of Amir Kror and that tajik guy chatting,it reminded me of non other than kabulzada.


                        this is most likely the guy responsible for most of anti pashtun online activities.
                        ironically he himself looks like a Pashtun
                        What can we do to fix this? I just saw the blatant edits made on his page, claiming he is not from Kunar, but from Iran. This is disappointing, and we need to come up with an action plan.
                        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          can't you have a section on here, admin, for all the pashtun information?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                            The only problem with your approach is the blatant Afghan in your domain name, which will make others believe we are biased on that page(think of Iran Wiki). Purchase Wikipedia.af, or a related domain, connect the two and drive up the SEO campagin for Wikipedia.Af, that way at first sight, people won't feel like it's propaganda.
                            I can't compromise with the name. It's a perfect name for such a project. Wikipedia is a copyright name, I can't use that unless i'm part of wikipedia. And .af means "Afghanistan" again so why would I take it off of domain name and put it in the extension? The idea behind Afghan wiki is that it'll be written by Afghans and primarily sourcing Afghan authors. If I can handle the amount of urdu that's being used on this forum, I think as a Pashtun nationalist from Pakhtunkhwa you should be very comfortable using the word Afghan for yourself.
                            AfghanWiki.com | Techfried.net

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Aryob, you are making a clown out of yourself.

                              1)I am not from Pashtunkhwa, but from Kandahar.
                              2)Your Urdu attack, in which you assume I am from Pashtunkhwa is childish. We should love all languages. This nationalistic approach of yours is wrong, especially by attacking me and making baseless assumptions.

                              If you read my post, the point I was tryin to make is we should make users believe what they are reading is NOT biased. The same way you would feel that Iranpedia might be biased.

                              Rather than going off at with a tantrum, you could've realized that I was even offering you my support.

                              A perfect example as to why Afghans just don't get it. I mean, first try to understand what is written before you go off with a rant. I know what you were thinking, you thought I'm some Pashtun from Peshawar who is allergic to the name Afghan. Even if the aforementioned was true, your approach is just flat out wrong.
                              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X