Greetings from a Herati Tajik

[Herat]

Greetings, I've been a lurker here for some time and have posted already but made this thread on a request. I've joined this forum to interact with Pashtuns (unfortunately I don't know any Pashtuns or for that matter anyone from Afghanistan in real life outside family), with a view to the discussing and learning from you about Afghanistan.

Yes, Im from Herat and an ethnic Tajik (male), although I live in the UK. I actually just finished sixth form the year before (did A Level Maths, Bio, Chem, Physics and Philosophy) and am currently on my gap year with a deferred entry to read medicine here in the UK starting this September. And before you ask, I have a rather very politically conscious (tough not politically active) family so I guess thats why Im interested in all of this at this age.

[Adam]

Welcome to PF

[pashtanajan]

Welcome to the forums.

We're not all suicide bombers, ethnocentric, xenophobic, fanatic and fascist!

By the way, I have a question for you: What's going to happen to Afghans who are products of multiethnic relationships if a partition were to happen?

You do realize there are millions of Afghans who are mixed but because Afghanistan is a patriarchal, misogynistic and a patrillineal society they are said to only belong to their father's ethnic group.

What's going to happen to my little cousins? Some of them are half Panjsheri, others half uzbeki, a few half-uncles of mine are half hazara, and many relatives of mine are half Nuristani.

I guess we should just exterminate them, and maybe I should kill my step grandmother because she's from Herat and her existence will make everything much more complicated when a partition happens.

[Admin Khan]

Welcome to PashtunForums. I hope you enjoy your stay here. We all look forward to fruitful conversations with you. Make yourself at home.

Best,

[Herat]

Thank you for the welcomes guys.

Welcome to the forums.

We're not all suicide bombers, ethnocentric, xenophobic, fanatic and fascist!

By the way, I have a question for you: What's going to happen to Afghans who are products of multiethnic relationships if a partition were to happen?

You do realize there are millions of Afghans who are mixed but because Afghanistan is a patriarchal, misogynistic and a patrillineal society they are said to only belong to their father's ethnic group.

What's going to happen to my little cousins? Some of them are half Panjsheri, others half uzbeki, a few half-uncles of mine are half hazara, and many relatives of mine are half Nuristani.

I guess we should just exterminate them, and maybe I should kill my step grandmother because she's from Herat and her existence will make everything much more complicated when a partition happens.

Hey I don't believe that nor (at least I don't think I have) given that impression. Listen, Im just making the case for a partition in discourse, I don't think it will happen any time soon; the only way a partition could happen in the near future would be through a civil war more momentous than the last one (something which for obvious reasons I do not wish for) that involves some mass mobilisation on the part of the main ethnic groups, I think it is very, very unlikely. Instead, the peoples of Afghanistan will -which includes non Pashtuns tough reluctantly- accept Taliban rule again (I think their reconquest of Afghanistan is also inevitable tough the non-Pashtun warlords and their militias will continue to make mischief for probably a while) and it seems very difficult to predict what will happen in the long term in this case. By the way, I do believe Taliban rule is at least marginally preferable to / better than warlord rule so I don't even believe this "fascist suicide bombers" narrative even with regard to the Taliban.

My hope is that in the long run, via continued decentralisation (I think the Taliban will eventually give the North-West regional autonomy) voluntary partition will come to possibility and I am trying, I guess, to make a case for the desirability of partition in that form. I see nothing wrong with ethnic mixing but I don't think it will change the fact that the North will remain a generally Persianized non-Pashtun region whereas the South a Pashtun one any time soon and that a significantly ethnically heterogeneous centralized state simply won't work. No we shouldn't exterminate anyone but it would be better if we create two independent states with large homogenous ethnic majorities, and if this is done through stability (and not a civil war), I don't think minorities are going to be an issue whatsoever and will continue as they currently do.

[randolph85]

ahoy

[pashtanajan]

Thank you for the welcomes guys.




Hey I don't believe that nor (at least I don't think I have) given that impression. Listen, Im just making the case for a partition in discourse, I don't think it will happen any time soon; the only way a partition could happen in the near future would be through a civil war more momentous than the last one (something which for obvious reasons I do not wish for) that involves some mass mobilisation on the part of the main ethnic groups, I think it is very, very unlikely. Instead, the peoples of Afghanistan will -which includes non Pashtuns tough reluctantly- accept Taliban rule again (I think their reconquest of Afghanistan is also inevitable tough the non-Pashtun warlords and their militias will continue to make mischief for probably a while) and it seems very difficult to predict what will happen in the long term in this case. By the way, I do believe Taliban rule is at least marginally preferable to / better than warlord rule so I don't even believe this "fascist suicide bombers" narrative even with regard to the Taliban.

My hope is that in the long run, via continued decentralisation (I think the Taliban will eventually give the North-West regional autonomy) voluntary partition will come to possibility and I am trying, I guess, to make a case for the desirability of partition in that form. I see nothing wrong with ethnic mixing but I don't think it will change the fact that the North will remain a generally Persianized non-Pashtun region whereas the South a Pashtun one any time soon and that a significantly ethnically heterogeneous centralized state simply won't work. No we shouldn't exterminate anyone but it would be better if we create two independent states with large homogenous ethnic majorities, and if this is done through stability (and not a civil war), I don't think minorities are going to be an issue whatsoever and will continue as they currently do.

I highly doubt the Taliban will be able to reclaim Afghanistan again, as they are not supported by the majority of people from every ethnic group. Furthermore, I assure you that the world and the people of Afghanistan are currently far too globalized due to the internet, etc. for that to occur.

Nonetheless, what about people like me and my extended family who will become minorities and citizens of different states? I have relatives in Kunduz, Badakhshan, Panjsher, Kabul, Laghman, Nangarhar, Nuristan and Herat who come from various ethnic backgrounds. If Khorasan and a Pashtunistan is formed, I, my extended family and many people from Kabul and other cities where inter-ethnic marriage is common will belong nor support either states, as both states will split families apart. Keep note, most people in Afghanistan who have inter-married are usually the educated, elite and/or wealthy. So, why should the modernizing elite, who ultimately have the most sway and power, support a partition and two separate states?

Anyhow, Afghanistan may be a heterogeneous country in terms of ethnic diversity, but India is far more heterogeneous than Afghanistan and yet it seems to be doing fairly well; keep in mind, the partition that took place in India was due to religious reasons and not ethnic. The core problems in Afghanistan is not its ethnic variety, but rather illiteracy, which leads to ignorance and thus an easy breeding ground for indoctrination by the power-hungry.

[HalloIsBack]

welcome to pf!

[gadoonwal]

Herat ,welcome to the forum.

[Kushan Prince]

Before i give you a big welcome to the forums i must state a few things;


First of,

!) I don't agree with your views on partition as two independent states in strategical locations will lead to more trouble. Just look at pakistan and india,

2) As a Pashtun from the north, my family has pretty much settled and are content with our current location and won't feel like migrating down south anytime soon IF a partition happened.

3) I have some family members that have intermarried with Tajik families, whats going to happen to them? How do you know someone in you're family wasn't a Pashtun? Herat has a large Pashtun population as far as i know.

4) Partition is a sensitive and taboo issue among many Afghans. Most Uzbeks and Tajiks i know are proud Afghans.

With that said, welcome to PF.

[Badlun]

Most welcome to the forums
You have already made an impact and it is the sign of an intellectually strong person . Your presence here will be a valuable addition.

We Pashtuns must learn from Tajiks who are always proud of their ethnicity and always work in an efficient and effective way to promote their language, culture and political as well as economic interests. My first contact with Tajiks happened in Peshawar.

My family migrated from Kunar to Dir in Pakistan but I did not feel any difference in the village we were living in Kunar and the village in Dir, same people, same language, same cuisine and same social set up. The only difference was that beyond Bin Shahi it was called Afghanistan and this side was Pakistan.

I did not see any Tajik in Kunar or Dir but when I saw Persian written in Peshawar , I was astonished. In the Pashtun city of Peshawar there was not a single written word of Pashto but every where in Tehkal bazars I saw Persian. I learnt a lesson. Tajiks love their language while Pashtun either hate Pashto or they are indifferent towards their language.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I'm probably the first person to have welcomed you - on another thread.

Lemme guess, you're from Ealing or Hounslow or somewhere around there?

I met some Tajiks from there, though obviously there are loads of, if not far more, Pashtuns there too.

[Herat]

Thanks again for the extra welcomes.

Kushan Princes post

Pashtanajans post

Conquest doesn't work that way, Im sure the general population at large weren't fond of the warlords in the civil war either (and at least the tribal Pashtuns, who make up most of the South, do identify with the Taliban for actually warranted/understandable reasons). My expectation of a Taliban re-conquest is based on the fact that, compared to the Taliban, both the Afghan government and the army are a corrupt, unstable farce (I think this should be obvious to anyone who has done their reading around the Neocon propaganda).

I acknowledge that it will be a difficult process, some sort of union which grants not so difficult mobility between the two states would be ideal but the states must be politically independent. I don't know much about India but it seems to be the exception to the rule: ethnic diversity breeds ethnic conflict, much of the conflict today in the world is ethnic/group conflict (especially in Africa and our parts of Asia). The ethnically homogenous states of today, whether poor or rich, experience less internal conflict, that is, the general correlation between ethnic diversity and conflict are positive.

Look I sympathize with mixed families but with all due respect, this is an argument from sentimentality/emotion. The fact is that the North is a Persianized region whereas the south a Pashtun one, the two regions a peoples apart and the existence of some small mixed minority doesn't change this. The Pashtun peoples ought to be free, and Im sure desire so, to advance their own language, culture and interests but this conflicts with the interests of the non-Pashtuns who simply, as a whole, aren't interested in it (and vice versa). And if by the "elite" you mean the parasitic, opportunistic governmental elite then lets watch how they fair after the west leaves. There is only one way to realistically reconcile the ethnic problem of Afghanistan and that is separation.

Badluns post

Thank you Badlun. Well I don't know too much with regard to the issue of language but I think that might too harsh an assessment (and a little too simplistic). We have to keep in mind that Tajiks have inherited a language from a peoples who have had a much longer literary and imperial history (which includes a history in the Indian subcontinent) than Pashtuns (the Persians), in a sense we still have this unfair advantage in that we share a language with the more successful Iranians next door.

I have absolutely no interest in promoting Dari/Farsi to Pashtuns (or for that matter anywhere outside the traditionally Persian speaking regions of Iran, Northern Afghanistan and Tajikstan) and I wholeheartedly support Pashtuns in their endeavour to advance and promote their own language in Afghanistan. The trouble is that once again, we have two peoples and two languages with competing interests vying for influence in the same state.

Bengal_Tiger's post

Thanks again Bengal_Tiger, (obviously) youre a Londoner too? And Barnet (used to live in central a while back) :p but Im not actually (originally) a Londoner, my family lives up North and I only moved here a few years back to accompany my sister for university related issues. Up North there are actually very few peoples of Muslim background or even Indians much less Afghans so London was a rather pleasant surprise for me and the sixth form I attended had many Pakistanis but no Pashtuns or other Afghans. I have read that London unsurprisingly does host the largest Afghan community in England but Im not a particularly socially active guy so I don't personally know any.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Thanks again for the extra welcomes.





Thanks again Bengal_Tiger, (obviously) youre a Londoner too? And Barnet (used to live in central a while back) :p but Im not actually (originally) a Londoner, my family lives up North and I only moved here a few years back to accompany my sister for university related issues. Up North there are actually very few peoples of Muslim background or even Indians much less Afghans so London was a rather pleasant surprise for me and the sixth form I attended had many Pakistanis but no Pashtuns or other Afghans. I have read that London unsurprisingly does host the largest Afghan community in England but Im not a particularly socially active guy so I don't personally know any.

Khoobi?

(Do you say that in Dari?..lol)

Yeah I'm in London.

"Up north" is a very general term, in some parts of the north/midlands there are whole communities of Muslims e.g. Alum Rock in Birmingham, just ask [MENTION=1753]Manzareh[/MENTION]. However I know what you mean, you're from a place different to those areas with few foreigners.

There are loads of Afghans in London just like Somalis and Iraqis due to the wars in those countries. Just go to any of the Afghan restaurants in London.

Anyway hope you enjoy the forum!

[Tjanaparh]

Khush omaded dear Herati Tajik !
May I ask, if You are a Tajik, what is your oppinion on Tajikistan?
Have you any closer knowledge on Tajikistan ?
What is your opinion on Uzbekistan-Tajikistan relations ?

Thank You in advance!