Salaams, help and advice brothers and sisters

[HalloIsBack]

Interesting point.
We were introduced for marriage purposes.
As he did not have his working visa he wanted / needed to sort this out because he was unable to earn a living.

You are right religion is important and a relationship before marriage may not be ideal. It's not something I was personally looking for but as I am solely responsible to look after my mum. I needed to make sure that my husband to be could provide or was at least accepting of the fact that I must provide for my mum. Between the three of us, I am the one who is the most educated to work and provide. This is not a problem just what Allah has given to me.
I am happy to marry but not if he choose to marry someone else also.
it is not fair to her or me, especially if you cannot commit to equal time to a loved one. It is not fair on any human being.

Allah knows best

wait honey

as i understand you live in europe and he in an islamic country
you both got different education
and he might marry another girl
you have to take care for your mother
you are maybe a second choice?
you don't fell to be treat equal
and you are extrem insecure

[HalloIsBack]

now i understand your situation better after reading other post
i feel sorry for you but unfortunately i cannot give you any advice i'm a kafir on pf and non pashtun
i wish you all the best especially for you both

[Khostai]

now i understand your situation better after reading other post
i feel sorry for you but unfortunately i cannot give you any advice i'm a kafir on pf and non pashtun
i wish you all the best especially for you both

sometimes an outsider can give the best advice.
And what are you doing in the basement? Are you a hostage there?

[HalloIsBack]

sometimes an outsider can give the best advice.
And what are you doing in the basement? Are you a hostage there?

yeah i'm a hostage of his love ( [MENTION=103]tor_khan[/MENTION] )

well my advice? it all depend on him! why did he say yes to his first marriage? or was he forced? if thread starter cannot live as second wife then she should leave him forever! it will hurts at first time but with time the pain will go away and she will recognise it was a good decision

[Manzareh]

You were with this person for 3-4 years, and i take it you are into the deen by the way you speak. First of all, if you were introduced for marriage then why would it take 3-4 years to happen!? That sounds illogical, that you would take 3-4 years to get to know someone you were only introduced to for marriage. Secondly, since you seem to want to do things Islamically then think of the worse case scenario as a Muslim; you've been in a haraam situation in an illegal relationship for 3-4 years, granted its not your fault you had feelings but understand there is a reason why Islsmically boyfriend/girlfriend is not permisable and the situation your in is a good example why. So take it on the chin, as forgiveness from Allah and find someone to marry you without all this mess, if he's meant for you then it will happen. You may not want to let go and do what's logical because your in love but the best advice I can give you is true love is for after marriage not before marriage, as soon as you felt strong feelings for each other that was the time for marriage or seprating, not thinking about it 3-4 years later. All the best.

[Badlun]

This is a typical situation of many couples and proposed marriages. First love, then real life problems, then man engaged or already married then the relationship breaks up or the girl if blind in love or no other marriage proposal goes for the second marriage.

I am really wonder stuck at this quagmire that in Pashtun and religious societies one cannot have an extra matrimonial relationship and at the same time marriage is also a herculean task! What a paradox!

Both of you are in 30s and still struggling for a relationship! This is really really pathetic. Others in their teens would have enjoyed full sexual enjoyment and you poor guys because of the stupidities of religion and society still discussing proposals which too do not have any chance of success.

Second marriage or polygamy is a barbarity, an inhuman relationship, an animal kind of behavior. How one man can have two or more wives at the same time when heart cannot be divided into two or many. This is very ugly as well as economically , socially, personally and psychologically not feasible. Only a false religion can sanction such a unrealistic human relation. Never go for it. Have a boy friend without issues or a husband but only for you not divided.

[Catya Sher]

^ That would normally be sound advice Manzareh.

But the poor woman's heart is BROKEN right now by this sudden
announcement. Let's sympathize with that first,
and help her to see her way clear through the fog of shock !

I know it's terrible to learn such scary information when the guy had
never mentioned this even as a remote possibility.

My guess is, Azi, you don't want to be a second wife - you want to be
a FIRST wife !
Number one choice. Not second fiddle, and not sharing a husband right from
the outset.

I understand how the possible fiance is obligated and must
be feeling torn between his local culture and his life in UK.

But he should have spelled this out before, so you knew what
was in the cards.

[Manzareh]

This is a typical situation of many couples and proposed marriages. First love, then real life problems, then man engaged or already married then the relationship breaks up or the girl if blind in love or no other marriage proposal goes for the second marriage.

I am really wonder stuck at this quagmire that in Pashtun and religious societies one cannot have an extra matrimonial relationship and at the same time marriage is also a herculean task! What a paradox!

Both of you are in 30s and still struggling for a relationship! This is really really pathetic. Others in their teens would have enjoyed full sexual enjoyment and you poor guys because of the stupidities of religion and society still discussing proposals which too do not have any chance of success.

Second marriage or polygamy is a barbarity, an inhuman relationship, an animal kind of behavior. How one man can have two or more wives at the same time when heart cannot be divided into two or many. This is very ugly as well as economically , socially, personally and psychologically not feasible. Only a false religion can sanction such a unrealistic human relation. Never go for it. Have a boy friend without issues or a husband but only for you not divided.

This is the second time in the thread that you have talked about sexual intercourse, firstly you must be a dawoos father and a ridiculously dishonourable Pashtun to agree with your daughter sexing around with boy's aslong as safe sex is practiced, what kind of a begherat are you? Secondly, the girls been in a relationship for nearly 3-4 years its highly likely that they have been sleeping with each other.

Also, you speak of animalistic behaviour when a man has more than one wife, well how about the animalistic behaviour of finding a companion and having sex with no moral or religious obligation considered? I'd say what you believe in is more animalistic whilst the former behaviour your quick to call animalistic has been thought of through many modes of conduct and rules.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Asa-salaam-a-lakum

My name is Azi and have found this forum hoping to get some advice from the Pashto community. I am a muslim alhumdulliah and I live in London.
I look after my mum as we only have each other. Alhumdulliah.

I need some advice about a rishta.
The rishta is with a person from Doaba Hungu area and he has lived in the UK for 11 years. We would like to marry inshallah and are practicing muslims.

However, now we are talking about marriage he has changed his mind as he wants to make sure that family in Hungu doaba are also looked after. I understand this because I also look after my mum. After thinking about marriage we agreed to discuss with parents after ramadan. My mum is happy but know he is not sure as he is divided between the UK and Doaba.

As a muslim girl my honour is very important. I know this is very important in Pashto community too.

What advice can you give me if his family don't accept me, even if I am Pakistani muslim but not a Pathan?

Would value your advice brothers and sisters.

Women can be mothers, sisters and daughters, what should I do?

Jazakallah

If you are asking about Hangu and its people, here is what I know of it/them. This is a sample size of 1 and should not be taken as gospel truth. Nonetheless, sometimes life experience provides at least a hint of guidance and Pashtun circles are small enough that improbable meetings that one would never expect do occur.

I will tell you a story of my sole interaction with Hangu and its dominant qaum/kabaeel.

Years ago, I met a young man who was looking for work in the region I was in here in the US. I was introduced to him by a common friend. I wasn't sure where he was from since he spoke with a soft Pashto dialect, though I thought him to be a Khattak.

He had his brother with him and his wife. In time he let on that he was originally engaged to another in Hangu (probably a relative) but that he would keep two wives since he preferred the company of the one he was with at the time.

Later on, I saw him again and asked about his brother. It turns out that they were from a large family with many men in it. One of the brothers decided to mediate a dispute. This was a stupid thing to do because the mediator can be held liable even if a contract is made and both sides agree to give the mediator their trust. A Jirga is far better because you would have to kill the whole village if you disagreed with the decision. So in any case, one of the parties involved in the dispute decided to claim that this man's family was being influenced and the mediator was corrupt. That led to a large scale dushmanee.

Every brother except this one was shot and killed systematically. Women folk were hit with stray bullets.

Last I heard, he himself had died from natural causes at a relatively early age. His second wife was fierce in her devotion to her family and ensured the children all married their cousins.

So in summary, this may be an unpredictable situation and my lone sample size of one offers you no real evidence basis, but in the least it gave the impression that

1) Hangu was not a settled area in the sense of being less rural/village like and more urban
2) Bad stuff happens there
3) They are rigid about marrying internally or into their own families
4) At least one of their men, and maybe your man makes it two, had no qualms about doing the idiotic practice of satisfying their family by marrying a cousin or local, but then mistreating this local or family by taking outside wives and keeping that wife as the primary wife and the back home wife as the secondary family care taker wife who gets sent maintenance funds now and then. (Though in this case he took two wives from the same village).
5) Never mediate their disputes unless you are a complete outsider and can never have violence inflicted on you.


In any case, tread carefully with this area.

[DaZahroJaam.]

he is not a good man. let me tell you why. you know the part where he tells you that none of it is your fault?? that is called emotional manipulation. by admitting that, he is buying your sympathy and that does not take away from the fact that he lied to you. if a pashtun man comes from a family where he is expected to marry someone chosen for them, they always know. he chose to ignore that fact at your expense and it never occurred to him to come clean in the course of 4 years.
when you care for someone, you will take whatever bits and parts of their life that you can get your hands on. the idea of being in his life as a second wife may seem very much appealing in comparison to not being in his life at all. however, the truth is that a person can be amused, fascinated and infatuated by two people at the but never in love with two people at the same time. the distinction between that one individual and the rest of the world's population is very clear and obvious. if he loves you, he is cutting his other wife short of her rights and if he loves her, you will be just a mistake. that woman does not have the option that you do. you will be at fault with him on it just as much as he is. don't settle for being an option in anyone's life. and don't meet people with the intention of getting married with them if it has not been discussed or finalized. you invest in to a relationship emotionally and then it does not work out after all. you end up in an emotional mess.
and the part where you need to take care of your mother and what not..that is none of anyone's business. not even his if it had been decided for the two of you to get married to each other. she is your mother, not a burden that your care for her should be some sort of "sacrifice" on the part of either one of you.
you made a mistake. move on and away from it.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This is a typical situation of many couples and proposed marriages. First love, then real life problems, then man engaged or already married then the relationship breaks up or the girl if blind in love or no other marriage proposal goes for the second marriage.

I am really wonder stuck at this quagmire that in Pashtun and religious societies one cannot have an extra matrimonial relationship and at the same time marriage is also a herculean task! What a paradox!

Both of you are in 30s and still struggling for a relationship! This is really really pathetic. Others in their teens would have enjoyed full sexual enjoyment and you poor guys because of the stupidities of religion and society still discussing proposals which too do not have any chance of success.

Second marriage or polygamy is a barbarity, an inhuman relationship, an animal kind of behavior. How one man can have two or more wives at the same time when heart cannot be divided into two or many. This is very ugly as well as economically , socially, personally and psychologically not feasible. Only a false religion can sanction such a unrealistic human relation. Never go for it. Have a boy friend without issues or a husband but only for you not divided.

Actually the society as redesigned by your beloved militant secularists is the most illogical and this is why they are generally beyond barbaric. Aldous Huxley was very prophetic in his description of what your heroes would like to construct in his magna opus, Brave New World

Muhammad, the Prophet (S) spoke about earlier marriage being a venerable approach.

This is far more in line with man's primal animal nature and development than what you advocate actually.

Man, like other primates
1) practices confirmed mate guarding behavior and has puberty relatively early
2) Has increased transmission of venereal diseases with increased number of sexual partners, some of which lead to worse consequences for females (e.g. cervical cancer from HPV strains). This is even in the most advanced nation in the world with safe sex center/abortion clinics in every city center and even rural areas.
3) Has developed a limited polygamous nature that harmonizes the risks and benefits based on the resources and realities (man is sole primate that cannot "smell" ovulation hence his mate guarding and predilection for limited polygamy
4) The trade off for the Badlun promoted practice of later marriage and enjoying premarital coitus results in nulliparity for a longer period of time. This in turn is one of the risk factors toward breast and ovarian cancers.

Really only false, arrogant, sociopathic folks like Najibullah Ahmadzai and his acolytes operated on such foolish assumptions that society could be redesigned without consequence.

This once again is why it was essential to criticize, marginalize, isolate, and in Najib's case "neutralize" the menace of secular militancy.

[Catya Sher]

You mean, Dr Najib ?

Good answers, everybody, even DZJ 's was quite wise.

P.S. - Don't worry about the insult about insecurity. This kid doesn't mean it.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You mean, Dr Najib ?

Good answers, everybody, even DZJ 's was quite wise.

P.S. - Don't worry about the insult about insecurity. This kid doesn't mean it.

Not doctor, a doctor takes the Hippocratic oath to do no harm.

Najib-u-Shaytaan was more a sociopathic psychopathic militant who killed with his own two hands and admitted to it.

One thing that would be impressive would be if Karzai could move to rescind Najib's medical degree and any subsequent licensure he may have acquired. That would be a symbolic smashing of his legacy that would accomplish justice for his murder victims.

Perhaps we could float this suggestion to Comrade and others in the current government. The consequence would be minimal since his devotional few are a lunatic fringe without much power.

Yes, I think I shall send this suggestion abroad. I forget but I think he went to Nangrahar Medical. I know Red Duke who taught there at the time and I can see if he has any contacts.

[Badlun]

[MENTION=1753]Manzareh[/MENTION]
Have I ever called you names in spite of our ideological differences. I have always tried to talk in an impersonal way to share and learn not abusing and touching personal lives of people. This is the sign of a worst dawoos that instead of battle of ideas and arguments attack on personal grounds and evoke emotional, religious, sentimental aspects and issue decrees and fatwas.

For my daughter I will have the best ever possible modern education at school and best ethical and religious education at home. Once she will be adult of 18 years will have complete freedom to decide whatever direction she will like to have of her professional and personal life.

My priority will be always that she is a responsible citizen and a conscious human being. She should be a perfect Muslim religiously, a complete Pashtun socially and culturally, democratic minded politically and social capitalist economically. She should have good taste for fine arts and good understanding of social and natural sciences .

This is what I will try to educate her, rest will be her to live the way she wish. If she want to get married after her completion of education will be her decision if not will be again hers. I will never intervene in her personal life once she is 18 years old.

[Badlun]

[MENTION=7736]Barakzai[/MENTION]
It means if earlier marriage is a venerable approach then every Muslim or Pashtun should marry at the age of about 12-15 years and then having children and thus no education and other professional pursuits? Marriage is a big responsibility and how every body will be able to manage it in this early age?

Having a boy friend and girl friend does not mean promiscuity.

But if marriage is the only option then why marriages are so difficult, expensive and complicated?