Namak-haram Afghani?

[Samandri]

So i have heard from the mouths of many Pashtuns of Pakistan that "Afghani" is namak-haram by nature and thus he is different from Pashtun of Pakistan despite sharing the same ethnicity. If it is accepted that Bar Afghan/Pashtun is namak-haram and ungrateful by nature, then it means Lar Pashtuns might also have germs of namak-harami in them and if put to test they will also display the same behavior , as lar awo bar yo Afghan. A glimpse of it can be noticed during Hijrat movement 1919 when a very large number of people from present-day KP and FATA migrated to improvised Afghanistan where they were given places to settle. They came back to their homes due to harsh conditions in Afghanistan. Back home they started talking against Afghanistan and its people, and even to this day they talk against Afghanistan in relevance to Hijrat movement.

Babur in his Baburnamah complains that Afghans (Pashtuns) are disloyal to him despite him showering great favours on them. He even permitted Afghans to not bow in front of him and they were allowed to sit (other nobles had to keep standing in the presence of king). Afghans in India were entering his service due to adverse circumstances and then were deserting him out of their Afghan consciousness and pride. Many Afghans/Pashtuns were fighting for restoration of Pashtun rule in India and it used to shame the ones who were in the service of Babur. So at the time of Babur's death , only three Pashtun nobles remained firmly loyal to Mughal cause. The rest had become "namak-haram" (in Mughal eyes) while patriots in the Afghan eyes. The two greatest leaders of Afghan resistance, Bibban and Bayazid, had done this "namak-harami", they tasted Mughal salt but did not like it.

Greatest namak-haram in the eyes of Mughals was Farid Khan , also known as Sher Khan. He had entered into the service of Mughals and his double dealings ruined the cause of Mahmud Lodi (brother of Sultan Ibrahim Lodi). Then he ruined Mughals. Mughal historians call names to Sher Shah for his namak-harami and treachery. Yet this so called namak-haram was/is greatly revered by Pashtuns of every type. Sher Shah's father and grandfather belonged to a village in present-day Pakistan, not Afghanistan. There were also numerous other Pashtun namak-haram in the Mughal histories. The most prominent being Khan Jahan Lodi who attained the highest rank and almost princely status during Jehangir's reign but later rebelled against Shah Jahan and gathered forces to restore Pashtun rule over India.

In the native lands, Khushal Khan Khattak became a namak-haram (or patriot in the eyes of Pashtuns). He was namak-halal of Mughals for six decades and then turned namak-haram and forgot the favours of Jehangir and Shah Jahan on him. He was also from present-day Pakistan.

[Traveller]

So i have heard from the mouths of many Pashtuns of Pakistan that "Afghani" is namak-haram by nature and thus he is different from Pashtun of Pakistan despite sharing the same ethnicity. If it is accepted that Bar Afghan/Pashtun is namak-haram and ungrateful by nature, then it means Lar Pashtuns might also have germs of namak-harami in them and if put to test they will also display the same behavior , as lar awo bar yo Afghan. A glimpse of it can be noticed during Hijrat movement 1919 when a very large number of people from present-day KP and FATA migrated to improvised Afghanistan where they were given places to settle. They came back to their homes due to harsh conditions in Afghanistan. Back home they started talking against Afghanistan and its people, and even to this day they talk against Afghanistan in relevance to Hijrat movement.

Babur in his Baburnamah complains that Afghans (Pashtuns) are disloyal to him despite him showering great favours on them. He even permitted Afghans to not bow in front of him and they were allowed to sit (other nobles had to keep standing in the presence of king). Afghans in India were entering his service due to adverse circumstances and then were deserting him out of their Afghan consciousness and pride. Many Afghans/Pashtuns were fighting for restoration of Pashtun rule in India and it used to shame the ones who were in the service of Babur. So at the time of Babur's death , only three Pashtun nobles remained firmly loyal to Mughal cause. The rest had become "namak-haram" (in Mughal eyes) while patriots in the Afghan eyes. The two greatest leaders of Afghan resistance, Bibban and Bayazid, had done this "namak-harami", they tasted Mughal salt but did not like it.

Greatest namak-haram in the eyes of Mughals was Farid Khan , also known as Sher Khan. He had entered into the service of Mughals and his double dealings ruined the cause of Mahmud Lodi (brother of Sultan Ibrahim Lodi). Then he ruined Mughals. Mughal historians call names to Sher Shah for his namak-harami and treachery. Yet this so called namak-haram was/is greatly revered by Pashtuns of every type. Sher Shah's father and grandfather belonged to a village in present-day Pakistan, not Afghanistan. There were also numerous other Pashtun namak-haram in the Mughal histories. The most prominent being Khan Jahan Lodi who attained the highest rank and almost princely status during Jehangir's reign but later rebelled against Shah Jahan and gathered forces to restore Pashtun rule over India.

In the native lands, Khushal Khan Khattak became a namak-haram (or patriot in the eyes of Pashtuns). He was namak-halal of Mughals for six decades and then turned namak-haram and forgot the favours of Jehangir and Shah Jahan on him. He was also from present-day Pakistan.

I view modern Afghan Pashtun-Pakistani Pashtun beef as a tribal issue. In the same way that Pashtuns of different tribes traditionally hated each other despite being from the same culture now Pashtuns of different nationalities are fighting each other. Inshaallah this is just a phase and things will get better in the near future. Although I am a bit concerned that desification and other cultural changes could render the division permanent.

[Karachi]

lol, you guys will never civilize, keep fighting each other till the end

[khushal]

Afghans refuse to accept the "neesan" of others. Everything comes from Allah. Only be grateful to Allah. When you help someone, you are supposed to help them for the sake of Allah. Some people(from all ethnic backgrounds) think that when they do a favor for you, they own you. Afghans don't accept being owned.

But your paki friend is a victim of the latest paki media propaganda which is unleashing the "ungrateful Afghans" narrative which is a response to the Afghan media narrative of blaming their failures on the pakis.

[Elite Pakhtun]

I think the only mistake some Afghans make is they don't make the distinction between Pakistanis and Punjabi/Indics. Otherwise there's a lot of good people amongst them.

[Elite Pakhtun]

By Afghan, I obviously only mean Afghan pashtun. Not those dancing boy foorsi wannabe taaaaawjiks

[Baserka]

By Afghan, I obviously only mean Afghan pashtun. Not those dancing boy foorsi wannabe taaaaawjiks

You mean like this??


Or this??




By the way, not that I approve of either one but this is how "Tajik" afghans do it.

[Dost]

Well you Afghans are definitely showing your namak halal-i to your Indian fathers. Whether you guys like or dislike Pakistan makes no difference to us. If you hurt our children again like you did in APS attack, we will not forgive you.

Simple as that. Now you guys continue praising yourselves. Abdali, Khattak, and even Suri. I'm sure they mean a lot to you guys. Keep praising them no problem. Once you touch our children or anyone in Pakistan, we will come for you as enemies. I hope the money you get from the Indians is worth it.

[Nekrofrost]

Id put in this way. We are namak halal till we are wronged/used/disrespected even in the most minor and unintentional way. I see myself doing this too and im pretty sure all pashtuns have this thing and altho its good at times most of the time its disastrous because it can stem from literally nothing.

[Nekrofrost]

Well you Afghans are definitely showing your namak halal-i to your Indian fathers. Whether you guys like or dislike Pakistan makes no difference to us. If you hurt our children again like you did in APS attack, we will not forgive you.

Simple as that. Now you guys continue praising yourselves. Abdali, Khattak, and even Suri. I'm sure they mean a lot to you guys. Keep praising them no problem. Once you touch our children or anyone in Pakistan, we will come for you as enemies. I hope the money you get from the Indians is worth it.

I love when you punjabis like to think of yourself as some kind of heros and protectors and say such dumb **** because of it. Really gives me a good laugh.

[toughpashtun]

This border between the two countries was drawn in 1893 , and it would be foolish to think that all those west of this are namak-haram and those on east are not.
By this logic , a Durrani Achakzai in Kandahar is namak haram but the same tribe's member in Chaman/Quetta is not.
A Shinwari in LandiKotal is the epitome of Pashtun honour and qualities and namak halaali , but a fellow Shinwari in Nangarhar is namak haraam and what not.
Which intelligent and sane person can accept this?

Having said that , there are some instances when you can understand why people refer to Afghans as namak haram.This is not to say that all Afghans are like that, I just disproved that above , but some examples.
There is that famous picture of Hamid Karzai in a refugee camp in Pakistan , maybe during the Soviet war.When he became a president later on , he easily favoured India over Pakistan.
Pakistanis feel that they sheltered Afghans for over three decades , but the overall feeling in Afghanistan towards Pakistan is not positive.Hence they think of Afghans as namak haram.Of course ,there are reasons for this as Afghans think that Pakistan is wrongly meddling in Afghan affairs etc.

[Samandri]

This border between the two countries was drawn in 1893 , and it would be foolish to think that all those west of this are namak-haram and those on east are not.
By this logic , a Durrani Achakzai in Kandahar is namak haram but the same tribe's member in Chaman/Quetta is not.
A Shinwari in LandiKotal is the epitome of Pashtun honour and qualities and namak halaali , but a fellow Shinwari in Nangarhar is namak haraam and what not.
Which intelligent and sane person can accept this?

Having said that , there are some instances when you can understand why people refer to Afghans as namak haram.This is not to say that all Afghans are like that, I just disproved that above , but some examples.
There is that famous picture of Hamid Karzai in a refugee camp in Pakistan , maybe during the Soviet war.When he became a president later on , he easily favoured India over Pakistan.
Pakistanis feel that they sheltered Afghans for over three decades , but the overall feeling in Afghanistan towards Pakistan is not positive.Hence they think of Afghans as namak haram.Of course ,there are reasons for this as Afghans think that Pakistan is wrongly meddling in Afghan affairs etc.

If there was no dispute between Pakistan (Punjab+Sindh) and Afghanistan from the get go, and KP and part of Baluchistan had ended up in Afghanistan.....then Afghans and Afghanistan would have been either neutral or favouring Pakistan more than India. They kiss the Indians in their enmity to Pakistan.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Not much has changed in this forum in the past several years. You guys are still fighting over who is better and not. Get over it. lol

As nations, both Afghanistan and Pakistan are third world countries, filled with namak harms.

[MENTION=19965]Baserka[/MENTION] those guys in the first video got dance moves.. lol

[Dost]

If there was no dispute between Pakistan (Punjab+Sindh) and Afghanistan from the get go, and KP and part of Baluchistan had ended up in Afghanistan.....then Afghans and Afghanistan would have been either neutral or favouring Pakistan more than India. They kiss the Indians in their enmity to Pakistan.

Why are you trying to mislead people? "If only".... Please, If Afghans got a chance, you think they will give up Punjab or Sind? The will take that **** too. Punjab was always the bread basket for many empires.

Even Pashtun military commanders from 300 years ago were not as simple as you guys today. Punjab has always been a fertile land, and controlling the rivers of modern day Pakistan was always the goal for all armies, whether they were from west or east.

Your thoughts regarding giving up KPK and Baluchistan are either very naive, or very conniving. Like Pakistan will give up KPK and Baluchistan, and Afghans will just put their hands in their pockets and be satisfied afterwards. lol

[Dost]

I love when you punjabis like to think of yourself as some kind of heros and protectors and say such dumb **** because of it. Really gives me a good laugh.

What have I said that is dumb ****? Unlike you, people that are a bit older don't think on ethnic lines, but like to deal with reality as it comes. Huff and Puff all that you want little Abdali warrior in the west. lol