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Ahmad Shah Abdali : A Wahabi or Sufi? (also some other points for discussion)

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  • Ahmad Shah Abdali : A Wahabi or Sufi? (also some other points for discussion)

    A while ago there was lengthy discussion on this forum in a thread started by Shamlawar Khurasai in which he stated that Ahmad Shah Abdali was Wahabi or Wahabi-like because he was disciple of Shah Waliullah who invited him to India and finish Maratha power. Back then i did not know much history and i dont recall what i contributed to that thread but in the past year i have come across some references which clears some confusion ;

    While researching about the battle of Panipat , i came across a detail from the account of an eyewitness of the battle (Kashi Raj) which says that after the battle Ahmad Shah Abdali entered the town of Panipat and visited the shrine of Boo Ali Qalandar.......this reveals a lot about the religious nature of Abdali. He certainly had no Wahabi-ish inclinations

    I also came across the English translation of letters of Shah Waliullah which he wrote to both Ahmad Shah Abdali and Najib-ud-daula. I have not find the reply-back of Abdali to Shah Waliullah so i assume Abdali did not write any letter in response to Shah Waliullah's (it was 1759 and Abdali had commenced invasion of India to have decisive battle with Marathas). It was actually Najib-ud-daula who was in contact with Abdali and was inviting him to India. From the letters to Najib, it appears that Shah Waliullah had hopes from Najib and Rohillas for restoration of peace and law and order in Mughal empire, and as part of that sentiment he also wrote a letter to Abdali (the third person to whom he also appealed was powerful Nizam-ul-mulk of hyderabad who was a Sunni).....his letter is very lengthy and describes the sociopolitical conditions of india and sorry state of Indian Muslims. He urges Abdali to annihilate Shirk and kufr and free enslaved Muslims through Jihad etc. He stressed on annihilating the power of Marathas and Jats

    But the fact is Abdali did not need invitation from Shah Waliullah to invade India. He was already involved in India since 1748. What triggered Abdali into action was not letter of Shah Waliullah but Maratha occupation of his Punjab province , thus challenging him. Moreover from various quotes of Abdali that were recorded in those years , it appears a big reason for involving himself in Delhi and beyond was helping the Pashtuns in India (Rohillas)......an 18th century source quotes Abdali in 1756 as "I have entered these realms as an upholder of the faith and a succourer of Afghan tribes (Rohillas)"....there are many other similar references from that period......it can not be coincidence that he invaded India whenever Rohillas were in dire straits and were relieved due to his invasion (for example in 1752 entire Rohilla and Bangash qaum had fled to jungles of Kumaon of Himalayas and were besieged by combined army of Marathas, Mughals and Awadhis.....the sudden invasion of Punjab by Abdali forced the alliance to lift the siege of Indo-Afghan families who had taken refuge in jungles and were dying from disease and starvation)

  • #2
    I think you are right. I have also read somewhere that he asked the pir of Multan for blessing or that he attended the shrines to obtain blessing. That's looks like Ahmad Shah Abdali was a grave worshipping mushrik.
    Originally posted by Firdousi
    Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

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    • #3
      he wasnt a sufi because sufis are mostly pacifists who wouldnt dare to fight.
      thats probably why waliullah asked him to save him.

      he couldnt be wahabis as wahabis are extremists, you cant be an extremist and rule so many different areas and people.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
        I think you are right. I have also read somewhere that he asked the pir of Multan for blessing or that he attended the shrines to obtain blessing. That's looks like Ahmad Shah Abdali was a grave worshipping mushrik.
        well
        cant expect anything beter than you as you wahabis also call Imam Abu Haneefa as kafir as well.
        you should stop being and extremist and follow the straight path which is the middle path.

        sufis and wahabis are both extremists, as one would go to graves etc and the other would blow up graves.

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        • #5
          By Sufi i mean those who believe in Tasawuf , i am not talking about that cult who dances in circles....., all the Sunnis with the exception of Wahabis have concept of Tasawuf.

          In history Pashtuns were attached to Sufi silsilas like Naqshbandia, Chishtia and Qadria. And in Pashtun society Sufis were not pacifists......a great warrior from our history, Khawas Khan was a Sufi saint as well as a general....All of the Roshniyas were Sufis etc. About visiting shrines part, our entire Pashtun belt is dotted with ziarats of historical figures who were not all necessarily saints but are given saintly status.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Samandri View Post
            By Sufi i mean those who believe in Tasawuf , i am not talking about that cult who dances in circles....., all the Sunnis with the exception of Wahabis have concept of Tasawuf.

            In history Pashtuns were attached to Sufi silsilas like Naqshbandia, Chishtia and Qadria. And in Pashtun society Sufis were not pacifists......a great warrior from our history, Khawas Khan was a Sufi saint as well as a general....All of the Roshniyas were Sufis etc. About visiting shrines part, our entire Pashtun belt is dotted with ziarats of historical figures who were not all necessarily saints but are given saintly status.
            Do all Pashtuns go to shrines to ask the dead for blessing?
            Originally posted by Firdousi
            Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Akbar View Post
              well
              cant expect anything beter than you as you wahabis also call Imam Abu Haneefa as kafir as well.
              you should stop being and extremist and follow the straight path which is the middle path.

              sufis and wahabis are both extremists, as one would go to graves etc and the other would blow up graves.
              If being against shirk is extremism then I'd rather be extremist than pacifist. And takfeer on Abu Haneefa is nonsense.
              Originally posted by Firdousi
              Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Akbar View Post
                sufis and wahabis are both extremists, as one would go to graves etc and the other would blow up graves.
                You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you are saying that Ahmad Shah Abdali was not a Sufi because he was a warrior. On the other hand you are saying that Sufis are those who visit graves and are extremists. Ahmad Shah did visit shrines.....your brain seems to be disoriented at the moment.
                Last edited by Samandri; 05-05-2017, 12:29 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
                  Do all Pashtuns go to shrines to ask the dead for blessing?
                  They did , they do. It was one of the thing that Syed Ahmad Bareilwi observed about Pashtuns and refrained them from doing so. Of course there are no Hindu-type urs celebrations and other Hindu activities but shrines of ancestors and saints are visited by Pashtuns.

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                  • #10
                    One can be a Sufi and be part of a Sufi Tariqa and still have monotheist beliefs / creed.

                    One can also visit graves and shrines without asking the dead for help.

                    Just because a person is a Sufi it doesn't mean he or she practices shirk and kufr.

                    the label wahhabi is invented by mushrikeen to describe Muslims.
                    Originally posted by Firdousi
                    Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Samandri View Post
                      They did , they do. It was one of the thing that Syed Ahmad Bareilwi observed about Pashtuns and refrained them from doing so. Of course there are no Hindu-type urs celebrations and other Hindu activities but shrines of ancestors and saints are visited by Pashtuns.
                      Then all of them are kafirs.
                      Originally posted by Firdousi
                      Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Akbar View Post
                        he wasnt a sufi because sufis are mostly pacifists who wouldnt dare to fight.
                        thats probably why waliullah asked him to save him.

                        he couldnt be wahabis as wahabis are extremists, you cant be an extremist and rule so many different areas and people.
                        Thats not true. Plenty of Sufis were/are warriors. I recall once I read a piece regarding Saladino conquer of Jerusalem. After defeating Christians in Hattin most of Turcopols, Hospitallers and Templars were executed by Sufis.
                        "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                        I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                        -Ferdowsi.

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                        • #13
                          The entire Mullagori tribe of Khyber agency is Bareilwi and they not peaceable does dancing in circles, they are armed to teeth and carry rocket launchers.....they have had not only tribal wars with neighbors but also bitterly fought against Taliban aggressors in recent years. The Ansar-ul-islam of Khyber agency, the opponents of Mangal Bagh, are also Bareilwis and they are militants. A Sufi in Pashtun society is not a Hindu jogi of India.

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                          • #14
                            Wahabies are Followers of Ibn wahaab najdi, he was a contemporary of Ahmed shah abdali but outlived him, There was no Wahabi/ahle hadith In the Indian subcontinent before Ismail dehlavi the grandson of Shah waliullah, before Ismail Dehlavi there were only the Hanafi sunnis In India-pak, who all accepted Tasawfuw and there were the various shia sects.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Samandri View Post
                              The entire Mullagori tribe of Khyber agency is Bareilwi and they not peaceable does dancing in circles, they are armed to teeth and carry rocket launchers.....they have had not only tribal wars with neighbors but also bitterly fought against Taliban aggressors in recent years. The Ansar-ul-islam of Khyber agency, the opponents of Mangal Bagh, are also Bareilwis and they are militants. A Sufi in Pashtun society is not a Hindu jogi of India.
                              Sufies are not Disco dancers, Sufies are better and more righteous warriors than wahabies who justify suicide bombings which kill innocents.

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