Gandharis were Pactyans?

[Afghanfootball]

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[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't understand why you're so invested in Pashtuns; you're not even Pashtun

but a Mongol-Tajik mixture who were allies with the Mughals.

[Aryana]

[MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION]

Very interesting find there. So it's safe to assume that Gandhara (it is one of the oldest civilisations) was inhabited by Pashtuns (Pactyans)? The geographies and culture would match up quite well.

[Bengal_Tiger]

[MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION]

Very interesting find there. So it's safe to assume that Gandhara (it is one of the oldest civilisations) was inhabited by Pashtuns (Pactyans)? The geographies and culture would match up quite well.

Yes, I have to agree, [MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION], a very interesting thread and discussion.



Interested to learn more from Afghanfootball and Aryana on this topic.

[Golden]

Gandhara people were not hindkos or seraki speaking people now living around indus river?

[Sarbani]

Gandharans have their language being recorded as being descended from Rig Vedic Sanskrit. They were Indics. If you want to say that Paktya and Gandhara were inhabited by the same people, then you're basically saying that the Paktyans were Indics.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

And worst off they're using references which are not primary sources. While Caroe is a useful reference compendium, it's rife with errors.

[Sarbani]

There were a people in western Gandhara (Kamboja/Paropamisus) known as the Ashvakans/Aspagans. Maybe they were one in the same with Pactyans since it is thought that the word Afghan is derived from that aswell.

The Kambojas aren't really agreed to have been Indian. They could have been either Indian or Iranian. We know with 100% certainty though the Gandharans were Indian, so that alone rules out the Paktyans being Gandharans (or vice versa).

The Ashvakans/Aspagans were probably the same as Paktyans and the ancestors of Pashtuns.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There's no linguistic correlation between Ashvakans/Aspagans have no connection with the word "Afghan" , nor Pactyan and Pashtun.

So it's unlikely that any of these were actually Pashtuns; but perhaps some of their descendants became amalgamated into the ethnic substrate that became Pashtun

[MENTION=17856]Sarbani[/MENTION]

[Aryana]

The Kambojas aren't really agreed to have been Indian. They could have been either Indian or Iranian. We know with 100% certainty though the Gandharans were Indian, so that alone rules out the Paktyans being Gandharans (or vice versa).

The Ashvakans/Aspagans were probably the same as Paktyans and the ancestors of Pashtuns.

The Gandharians were for a period of time Zoroastrian. Other than Parsis, are there Indians who practise Zoroastrianism? But then again, they practised Hinduism, a religion that Pactyans (or Pashtuns for that matter) don't follow.

[Samandri]

The first Afghan/Pashtun settlers in Peshawar valley, were Dilazak Karlanries during the reign of Mahmud Ghaznavi. The Gandharans are present day Hindkis

[Sarbani]

The first Afghan/Pashtun settlers in Peshawar valley, were Dilazak Karlanries during the reign of Mahmud Ghaznavi. The Gandharans are present day Hindkis

Hindkis are a subgroup of Punjabis, who speak a language descended from Shauraseni Prakrit. The Gandhari language and any descendants it might have had are all 100% extinct. They have no cultural legacy left as they were completely wiped out and then replaced by Pashtuns and Shaurasenis.

[Sarbani]

The Gandharians were for a period of time Zoroastrian. Other than Parsis, are there Indians who practise Zoroastrianism? But then again, they practised Hinduism, a religion that Pactyans (or Pashtuns for that matter) don't follow.

They neighbored Zoroastrians on their west so that's not surprising. I don't think the Gandharis were ever majority Zoroastrian, but had pockets of Zoros or influence from that religion.

The Gandhari language has already been 100% confirmed to be Indic: Gāndhārī language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Golden]

Hindkis are a subgroup of Punjabis, who speak a language descended from Shauraseni Prakrit. The Gandhari language and any descendants it might have had are all 100% extinct. They have no cultural legacy left as they were completely wiped out and then replaced by Pashtuns and Shaurasenis.

So language might have died off but their decendents could have adopted hindko.

[Samandri]

I thought present Gandharis could be people like Pashayi and other dardics.

May be , may be not. I simply went along with the claim of Hindkis, who say that they are remnants of Gandharans. There might be some weight to yours and @Sarbani 's assertion but nothing can be said with certain. There are very old ruins of Hindu temples in Bannu and DI Khan (Kafirkot ruins). The tradition goes that Mahmud Ghaznvi "wiped out" infidels in this region. Pashtun tribes simply settled in these regions during ghauri's reign , with no mentions of any indigenous population there or war with them in their accounts. Khushal Khan Khattak says that his ancestor Ako forayed into Awan country in Punjab (Khushab etc) and captured forty thousands Awan men, women and children as slaves. Akbar ordered him to stop raids into Punjab. In ShahJahan's reign , a clan of Khattaks not under Khushal, had forayed into Awan country and ravaged it so the Emperor Shahjahan (who was on his way to Kabul for central asian expeditions) summoned Khushal to answer for it. So may be most of the Hindkis are actually captured slaves from Punjab in such raids. Gujars of Swat must be indigenous though. May be those remnants of Gandharans, now subjugates of Afghans, mixed with the war slaves from Punjab.

Dilazaks have oral tradition that when they descended into Peshawar valley , they found a red-complexioned population there. I dont know what to make of it. Books have speculated that these red-complexioned people were descendants of Greeks. I am not much into this period of history, so excuse me for my incoherent thoughts on the subject.