When entire Mughal force perished in the Khyber pass (1672)

[Samandri]

When entire Mughal force perished in the Khyber pass (1672)

[Samandri]

[Shapur]

Mughals are seen as traitors and enemies by Pashtuns but I have come across Pakistanis who consider themselves the inheritors of Mughal empire. What is the general consensus among Pakistanis regarding Mughals. Are they remembered fondly for their rule over Hindus or they seen as traitors to Islam bause their king Akbar came up with the concept of Din e Illahi, a mixture Islam and Hinduism.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I cannot speak on consensus, but I am neutral. History is history. I free myself of any obligation to relive ancient battles. The present and future are all we have left.

So sure Mughals, are a mixed bag. I don't appreciate or consider tyranny against others as acts of heroism. This is one reason why I don't consider Ahmad Shah Abdali a hero.

I consider Mirwais Khan a hero, but I don't consider his son Mahmud Khan a hero.

I use one measure, justice for all. It gets complicated most of the time because some people have done Justice and yet also injustice in the same lifetime. I just look at them neutrally, the good aspects I honor, the bad ones I censure.

This is my attitude towards the Mughals.

[Samandri]

Mughals are seen as traitors and enemies by Pashtuns but I have come across Pakistanis who consider themselves the inheritors of Mughal empire. What is the general consensus among Pakistanis regarding Mughals. Are they remembered fondly for their rule over Hindus or they seen as traitors to Islam bause their king Akbar came up with the concept of Din e Illahi, a mixture Islam and Hinduism.

Why Mughals will be considered "traitors" by Pashtuns?...... Those Timurid-Mughals never worked under Pashtun rulers/chiefs.

Not all Pashtuns were anti-Mughals. Many Pashtun tribes were very cooperative with Mughals and enrolled in the Mughal army. Bangash, Khalil, Khattak, Daudzai etc were very pro-Mughal tribes.

If Akbar was irreligious, Aurangzeb was extremely religious.

[Shapur]

Why Mughals will be considered "traitors" by Pashtuns?...... Those Timurid-Mughals never worked under Pashtun rulers/chiefs.

Not all Pashtuns were anti-Mughals. Many Pashtun tribes were very cooperative with Mughals and enrolled in the Mughal army. Bangash, Khalil, Khattak, Daudzai etc were very pro-Mughal tribes.

If Akbar was irreligious, Aurangzeb was extremely religious.

Traitors in the sense of treachery to orthodox Islam by mixing it with hinduism and also imprisoning Khushal baba after his loyal service to them. In his poetry Khushal baba condems them and says they are back stabers.

I know there were other tribes loyal to Mughals and that's why Khushal baba warns them to learn from his mistakes of trusting the mughals.

I would rather trust the judgement of Khushal baba rather than those oppurtunistic tribes.

[Samandri]

Traitors in the sense of treachery to orthodox Islam by mixing it with hinduism and also imprisoning Khushal baba after his loyal service to them. In his poetry Khushal baba condems them and says they are back stabers.

I know there were other tribes loyal to Mughals and that's why Khushal baba warns them to learn from his mistakes of trusting the mughals.

I would rather trust the judgement of Khushal baba rather than those oppurtunistic tribes.

You are not making any sense with this traitor stuff. It has already been explained to you that this Din-i-Ilahi was limited to Akbar and his son Jehangir reverted from it due to preaching of Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi. In the religion context, such person is not called "traitor" but "murtad" or apostate. Also Akbar did not imprison Khushal, it was Aurangzeb, a very strict Hanafi.

It seems you dont know much about Khushal Khattak, you seem to be just a blind fan or some thing like that. Khushal Khattak has actually high praises for Shah Jahan and Jehangir.......He detested Aurangzeb for a very simple reason, the latter put him in Jail and did not take into consideration his decades long "loyal" services to Mughals, which included burning down villages of Yousafzais and killing every man and woman in sight for Mughal cause.

Khushal Khattak appear so impressive to us , because he recorded his feelings with poetic exaggerations and his grandson wrote his history. The real hero, and the greatest leader of the uprising was actually Aimal Khan........who unlike Khushal, fought till end and fought the hardest and main battles......and had no ego hurt issues, but revolted in response to an insult of a Pashtun woman. While we find Khushal in the Mughal camp even in 1672. Khushal was friend of Amin Khan, the villain in this story, and actually fought for Mughals in the van in this battle. Now Aimal Khan has not written his memoirs or done poetry, so he is rather unknown figure.........Mughals dont mention Khushal at all in this Afghan uprising but frequently mention the name of Aimal Khan in heir chronicles.......We love his poetry, but he was no Bahlol Lodi ,Sher Shah Suri, Mirwais Hotak or Ahmad Shah Abdali

Iblis_Efreetzai

[Afghanfootball]

You are not making any sense with this traitor stuff. It has already been explained to you that this Din-i-Ilahi was limited to Akbar and his son Jehangir reverted from it due to preaching of Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi. In the religion context, such person is not called "traitor" but "murtad" or apostate. Also Akbar did not imprison Khushal, it was Aurangzeb, a very strict Hanafi.

It seems you dont know much about Khushal Khattak, you seem to be just a blind fan or some thing like that. Khushal Khattak has actually high praises for Shah Jahan and Jehangir.......He detested Aurangzeb for a very simple reason, the latter put him in Jail and did not take into consideration his decades long "loyal" services to Mughals, which included burning down villages of Yousafzais and killing every man and woman in sight for Mughal cause.

Khushal Khattak appear so impressive to us , because he recorded his feelings with poetic exaggerations and his grandson wrote his history. The real hero, and the greatest leader of the uprising was actually Aimal Khan........who unlike Khushal, fought till end and fought the hardest and main battles......and had no ego hurt issues, but revolted in response to an insult of a Pashtun woman. While we find Khushal in the Mughal camp even in 1672. Khushal was friend of Amin Khan, the villain in this story, and actually fought for Mughals in the van in this battle. Now Aimal Khan has not written his memoirs or done poetry, so he is rather unknown figure.........Mughals dont mention Khushal at all in this Afghan uprising but frequently mention the name of Aimal Khan in heir chronicles.......We love his poetry, but he was no Bahlol Lodi ,Sher Shah Suri, Mirwais Hotak or Ahmad Shah Abdali

Iblis_Efreetzai

Honestly i would have to agree with this. But was Bahlol Lodi at the level of Sher Shah, Mirwais Hotaki, or Ahmad Shah Baba?

[Samandri]

Honestly i would have to agree with this. But was Bahlol Lodi at the level of Sher Shah, Mirwais Hotaki, or Ahmad Shah Baba?

Certainly. Read his history and you will agree with me. Not just a founder of Pashtun power in India, but perhaps the most honourable, taintless, respected and down to earth Pashtun in the history.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Traitors in the sense of treachery to orthodox Islam by mixing it with hinduism and also imprisoning Khushal baba after his loyal service to them. In his poetry Khushal baba condems them and says they are back stabers.

I know there were other tribes loyal to Mughals and that's why Khushal baba warns them to learn from his mistakes of trusting the mughals.

I would rather trust the judgement of Khushal baba rather than those oppurtunistic tribes.

Khushal Khattak was an alcoholic sufi who wrote poems about fellow Pashtun tribes womens breasts.


You call mughal traitor to orhodox islam and yet you consider imprisonment of a degenerate like Khatttak as treatery?

[Shapur]

You are not making any sense with this traitor stuff. It has already been explained to you that this Din-i-Ilahi was limited to Akbar and his son Jehangir reverted from it due to preaching of Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi. In the religion context, such person is not called "traitor" but "murtad" or apostate. Also Akbar did not imprison Khushal, it was Aurangzeb, a very strict Hanafi.

Ok. Lets agree that It was only Akbar who was considered deviant religiously.

It seems you dont know much about Khushal Khattak, you seem to be just a blind fan or some thing like that. Khushal Khattak has actually high praises for Shah Jahan and Jehangir.......He detested Aurangzeb for a very simple reason, the latter put him in Jail and did not take into consideration his decades long "loyal" services to Mughals, which included burning down villages of Yousafzais and killing every man and woman in sight for Mughal cause.

Khushal Khattak appear so impressive to us , because he recorded his feelings with poetic exaggerations and his grandson wrote his history. The real hero, and the greatest leader of the uprising was actually Aimal Khan........who unlike Khushal, fought till end and fought the hardest and main battles......and had no ego hurt issues, but revolted in response to an insult of a Pashtun woman. While we find Khushal in the Mughal camp even in 1672. Khushal was friend of Amin Khan, the villain in this story, and actually fought for Mughals in the van in this battle. Now Aimal Khan has not written his memoirs or done poetry, so he is rather unknown figure.........Mughals dont mention Khushal at all in this Afghan uprising but frequently mention the name of Aimal Khan in heir chronicles.......We love his poetry, but he was no Bahlol Lodi ,Sher Shah Suri, Mirwais Hotak or Ahmad Shah Abdali

Iblis_Efreetzai

Khushal might have have liked or disliked certain individual Mughal rulers for a variety of reasons but there is no doubt he hated the mughals not just because of personal reasons but because he saw them up close and he knew that the Mughals are not friends of Pashtuns. He realised after his previous mistakes that Mughals are only using Pashtuns for their own benifit so he wanted Pashtuns to resist and overthrow the mughals and free themselves from their chains and return to their former glory of being rulers rather than being subserviant To Mughals.
After the he was freed. the Mughals tried their best to get him to rejoin them but by that time Khushal was a changed man and says

چې پښتون شوم په دا هسې سپينه ږيــــــره********** نور مې خدای مه کړه مغل ، وايم په ځيره
دا پوهېــــــــږم چې مغـــــــل لره کـــه ورشــــم********** تر اولـــــــه به زه لا په چـــــار بهـــــتر شـــــــــم
په ورتله به بيا خــــــدمت راڅخــــه غواړي********** پښتانه چې ســــره وژنو ، دېو پرې وياړي

The mughals were begging him to return to them but he refused not because his ego was hurt but for the greater good of the Pashtun cause. As you can see from above poem he rejected wealth, personal glory and undrestood the Mughals were only interested in subjugating Pashtuns.

پښتانه چې نور څه فکـر کا ناپوه دي********** بې د تورې خلاصۍ نشته په بل کار
بله هېڅ ليــــدله نه شي په دامنــځ کې********** يا مغل دمنځــه ورک يا پښتون خوار

So Khushal in the last sentence says Pashtuns will remain destitute as long as the Mughals are there.

I am sure Yusufzais were no Angels either, killing is part of war and not to forget Yusufzais killed his father but least he realised some of his mistakes and worked for the greater good of Pashtuns. Aimal Khan and Darya khan are highly praised in Khushals poetry and he is grateful to them for their assistance and struggle against the Mughals.

[Shapur]

Khushal Khattak was an alcoholic sufi who wrote poems about fellow Pashtun tribes womens breasts.


You call mughal traitor to orhodox islam and yet you consider imprisonment of a degenerate like Khatttak as treatery?

Not sure this post is worth a reply but here it goes.

Do you have evidence that Khushal baba drank?

Let's see what happens to you when you utter these words about Khushal baba infront of Pashtuns back home.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Not sure this post is worth a reply but here it goes.

Do you have evidence that Khushal baba drank?

Let's see what happens to you when you utter these words about Khushal baba infront of Pashtuns back home.

Maybe you should read your Baba's poetry before commenting. Maybe you should go back to home and discuss erotic passages and praise of wining in his poetry among Pashtun conservatives.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

the problem with Pashtun nationalism is that it is all based on fairy tales. Today one of their false idols is Khattak, a degenerate who served in Mughal army. The other is Najib, a communist who served the Russians and took part in genocide against Pashtuns.

[Shapur]

Maybe you should read your Baba's poetry before commenting. Maybe you should go back to home and discuss erotic passages and praise of wining in his poetry among Pashtun conservatives.

I have read bis poetry but can't find any evidence of him drinking alcohol as per your accusations.

There is a reason Khushal Khattak is the national poet of Afghans. You need to investigate why. Pashtuns back home love him except for a few groups who misundrestand him.