Kurds in the history of Afghanistan/Khorasan

[Dilawerkhan]

Following up on post #21 at http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashtun...ationship.html
where there was a discussion on Sorani Kurdi sounding the most similar to Pashto from the other languages in the area, for example a clip from a Kurdi film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZRE2tcaGJI

I decided to see how Kurds played into the history of Khorasan/Afghanistan. I have heard from some Heratis that there are Kurds in the vicinity, but the problem seems to be that most of the Kurds in Afghanistan are very poor and not that educated and because of this there does not appear to be much written about them. The other thing I suspect is that many of them may be simply melting into the local populations, and after a few generations lose their Kurdi identity.

There is some written on some notable Kurds, such as Kabul Kurd governor Ali Mardan Khan, who later served under Mughal emperor Shah Jahan Ali Mardan Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there is the Malik Kurd dynasty of Ghor (1245 -1380 AD) established by Shamsuddin Kurd, governor of Khorasan. This dynasty appears connected to the Gali Kurd tribe (Gali means valley in Kurdi). http://www.wow.com/wiki/The_Ghori_Ku...of_Afghanistan.

The Malik Kurd dynasty succeeded the better known earlier Ghorid dynasty (1000 -1200 AD).

I will be using this thread to post deep ancestry comparisons of Pashtuns & Tajiks with West and South Central Asians.

[Afghanfootball]

There is no evidence to support the claim that Ghorids were kurds.

[Win Butler]

There is no evidence to support the claim that Ghorids were kurds.

They weren't Pashtun either since the most credible source on the Ghorids, Tabaqat-i-Nasiri (written by a member of the Ghorid court), makes no mention of them being Pashtun.

[Dilawerkhan]

There is no evidence to support the claim that Ghorids were kurds.

The references in the article don't say that all Ghorids were Kurds. It mentions a specific time period. What evidence do you have that the Malik Kurd Ghori dynasty did not exist between 1245 & 1380 AD

[Afghanfootball]

The references in the article don't say that all Ghorids were Kurds. It mentions a specific time period. What evidence do you have that the Malik Kurd Ghori dynasty did not exist between 1245 & 1380 AD

Maybe you are talking about Kurts?
Kurt dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I dont know much about this dynasty but I doubt they were kurds considering they were descendents of the Ghorid Suri Dynasty.

[Aryana]

They weren't Pashtun either since the most credible source on the Ghorids, Tabaqat-i-Nasiri (written by a member of the Ghorid court), makes no mention of them being Pashtun.

I'm pretty sure that "Ghorids" lived in what is central Afghanistan. There were mentions that when Mahmud Ghaznavi travelled to Ghor, he had to bring a translator with him (obviously meaning they didn't speak Persian). Not only that, the geographies and descriptions of Ghorids and Pashtuns match up perfectly.

[Samandri]

DilawerKhan, as i mentioned before , you are distorting "Kurt" to "Kurd".........Kurt dynasty of Herat was of Ghorid origin

[Samandri]

They weren't Pashtun either since the most credible source on the Ghorids, Tabaqat-i-Nasiri (written by a member of the Ghorid court), makes no mention of them being Pashtun.

Yet a number of Pashtun tribes could be descended from Ghurids..........the legend is that Shah Husssain Ghori from a minor house of Ghor, married Bibi Mato, a Pashtun woman and their descendants are Ghilzais and Lodis. This legendary account may not be a historical truth, but it hints that Ghurids must have contributed towards ethnogenesis of Pashtun people.. There are also "Ghoria Khel" tribes of Pashtuns, who were mentioned as "Ghauris" by Abu Fazal in Ain-i-Akbari, confusing the matter for many.

The following description of Ghurids in Hadud-i-Alam (written in 982 AD) indicate that Ghurids were different from Persians.

Ghur or Ghor : "a province amid mountains and rugged country. It has a King called Ghur Shah. He draws his strength from the mir of Guzganan. In the days of old this province of Ghur was pagan (Kafir) ; actually most of the people are Muslims. To them belong numerous boroughs and villages. From this province come slaves , armour, coats of mail, and good arms. The people are bad-tempered, unruly, and ignorant. They are white and swarthy" (page-110 of English translation)

[Firdousi]

Yet a number of Pashtun tribes could be descended from Ghurids..........the legend is that Shah Husssain Ghori from a minor house of Ghor, married Bibi Mato, a Pashtun woman and their descendants are Ghilzais and Lodis. This legendary account may not be a historical truth, but it hints that Ghurids must have contributed towards ethnogenesis of Pashtun people.. There are also "Ghoria Khel" tribes of Pashtuns, who were mentioned as "Ghauris" by Abu Fazal in Ain-i-Akbari, confusing the matter for many.

The following description of Ghurids in Hadud-i-Alam (written in 982 AD) indicate that Ghurids were different from Persians.

Ghur or Ghor : "a province amid mountains and rugged country. It has a King called Ghur Shah. He draws his strength from the mir of Guzganan. In the days of old this province of Ghur was pagan (Kafir) ; actually most of the people are Muslims. To them belong numerous boroughs and villages. From this province come slaves , armour, coats of mail, and good arms. The people are bad-tempered, unruly, and ignorant. They are white and swarthy" (page-110 of English translation)

So Ghorids were Pashtuns according to you just because some of them were "unruly" and "ignorant"? You consider those things as synonym with Pashtun? lmao

No guys YOU ARE NOT GHORIDS, NOR BACTRIANS, NOR KHORASANIS. For God sake stop with this inferiority complex, Indians!!!

[Samandri]

So Ghorids were Pashtuns according to you just because some of them were "unruly" and "ignorant"? You consider those things as synonym with Pashtun? lmao

No guys YOU ARE NOT GHORIDS, NOR BACTRIANS, NOR KHORASANIS. For God sake stop with this inferiority complex, Indians!!!

Short-tempered and unruly, these are not traits of Tajiks or Farsiwans......as for "ignorant", most of the humans were ignorant in 982 A.D.

Firdousi, it seems to me your "kwana" is in pain due to excessive sex with men.....and its affecting performance of your brain

[Aryana]

So Ghorids were Pashtuns according to you just because some of them were "unruly" and "ignorant"? You consider those things as synonym with Pashtun? lmao

No guys YOU ARE NOT GHORIDS, NOR BACTRIANS, NOR KHORASANIS. For God sake stop with this inferiority complex, Indians!!!

Ghorids by accounts were described as tribal people; to your flat-headed face that's an insult.

[Firdousi]

Short-tempered and unruly, these are not traits of Tajiks or Farsiwans......as for "ignorant", most of the humans were ignorant in 982 A.D.

Firdousi, it seems to me your "kwana" is in pain due to excessive sex with men.....and its affecting performance of your brain

You have some sort of obsession with homosexuality. Really it must be a huge issue for you Indian Pashtuns.

Apu: I was raised in a Western civilized country not in a third world sh*thole like pakistan. Here in Europe homosexuality is not a big deal. Your whole Pashtun culture is surrounded by brutality, misery, death, dishonor,.. and yet this ghools only care about homosexuality. What a disgusting inferior people! lmao

[Firdousi]

Ghorids by accounts were described as tribal people; to your flat-headed face that's an insult.

You see? Once again you come up with your fairy tails.

Pashtuns your whole existence is fake. No wonder you guys are the most pathetic people waking the earth right now. Dying like animals on a daily basis, living with the worst standards of life in the whole world,.. and yet you dare to look down on other people!!!

Please, never change. I am more than happy with the current status quo. Every time I turn on the TV I see Pashtuns suffer. Makes me happy.

[Aryana]

You see? Once again you come up with your fairy tails.

Pashtuns your whole existence is fake. No wonder you guys are the most pathetic people waking the earth right now. Dying like animals on a daily basis, living with the worst standards of life in the whole world,.. and yet you dare to look down on other people!!!

Please, never change. I am more than happy with the current status quo. Every time I turn on the TV I see Pashtuns suffer. Makes me happy.

Calls Pashtuns savage warmongers and yet this is your mentality. Flat-headed chinky-eyed Mongols really are backstabbing cowards. Go ahead and continue, in fact say this in real life rather than being a keyboard warrior and spewing your garbage here. And then that pathetic Iblis Efreetzai is supporting people like you, pathetic excuses for human beings.

I'm actually surprised you didn't spew out garbage like "prove it". Shows that you Tajiks really do listen to your Pashtun masters.

[Dilawerkhan]

Maybe you are talking about Kurts?
Kurt dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I dont know much about this dynasty but I doubt they were kurds considering they were descendents of the Ghorid Suri Dynasty.

That is actuallly kind of funny. Kurt is nothing but Kurd. If Kurt were to be a separate entity from Kurd, then surely you would see many references to this fact, yet a search brought up nothing. Also the word is way too coincidentally similar to Kurd.

The inconsistencies of that article are pointed out in another article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kurt_dynasty

"This article is a VERY rough mix of sources, which contradicted each other many times. Since none of my sources went in depth on the Karts, this article is doubtless missing a bunch of information, such as how the Karts went from masters of a significant part of Central Asia in the 13th century to the masters of only the area of eastern Khurasan in the 14th. Even the way names are spelled is contradictory at some points. If you see any way in which you can expand or fix this article, please don't hesitate to do so. --Ro4444 7/11/05, 7:57 PM EST
The only reference that I found was a single line short reference in the article's reference #2, which states "The indigenous Kert(Kurt) dynasty, a Tajik line related to the Ghurids, ruled at Herat as Mongol vassals during most of the 14th century"
The dynasty the article references, is not the Kurt, but in fact a dynasty established by the Kurds of Kurdistan, the Malik Kurd Ghor dynasty was established by Shamsuddin Kurd, governor of Khorasan, for Sultan Ghiasuddin Ghori, around 1245 A.D. He was confirmed in his authority by Mughal Emperor Hulagu, of whom he was a vassal, and greatly increased his power and authority in the reign of his succesor, Abaka Khan."

The only references listed in that article for the word Kurt is a recent year 2000 references "M.J. Gohari, Taliban: Ascent to Power, (Oxford University Press, 2000)". I searched for this guy but did not come up with anything. Not only this, but the only references he makes is a one line sentence shown above.

Whereas, the references to the Malik Kurd dynasty of Ghor, discuss the dynasty in more depth, and establish a a connection to the Kurd Gali tribe that was prominent in Khorasan a long time ago. Also the references are older, Bellew is better known, and the authors are European which makes them more neutral, and less likely to be biased on Kurd vs Tajik.